Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Specialka]

Do you have as direct quote for that or only Zelenskyy's word, because what you linked doesn't have that, it only says that Zelenskyy said that Macron suggested that.

Would not be surprising if he said that. Russia (and in its time, USSR) hates to be humiliated. Giving up some territory or going "neutral" for a while would help Ukraine rebuild and prepare for the future. While Russia would save face at home.

Wonder how they will react now that Finland seems to be on a the path of joining the OTAN. I really wish the US would mind their business. While Russia have the biggest part in the blame for all this mess, the US also have a big share.

[Mamut]

No, but considering what Macron were doing so far it would not surprise me if actually he said something like that.

[Huehuecoyotl]

While Russia have the biggest part in the blame for all this mess, the US also have a big share.

Since Russia chose to start this war, chose to send soldiers into another country to kill, steal and rape, and chose to bomb cities, I'd say they get more than "the biggest part" of the blame. They get the fucking lot. Anything other "blame" is just Russian bullshit to justify what they're doing. I'd say they aren't fooling anyone, but clearly they are.

[Draco-Onis]

You're repeating your words instead of reading mine: strong Russia influenced internal USA stuff, weak dismembered remains of Russia will not. Which is what Congress and President are doing. This invasion is just an opportunity, not the actual reason to ruin Russia.

So you think Russia would be so "ruined" that their troll farms and influence networks won't work? you realize that North Korea whose country is in the actual shitter still runs one just fine right? The Russian economy was never that strong to begin with, you want to stop them from influencing the USA three words campaign finance reform.

At the moment every foreign country freely influences our politics because there's a free for all, ruining Russia will not change that China and other countries are doing much of the same. Your thinking is that of putting a band aid in a gaping wound and calling it fixed.

[Specialka]

Since Russia chose to start this war, chose to send soldiers into another country to kill, steal and rape, and chose to bomb cities, I'd say they get more than "the biggest part" of the blame. They get the fucking lot. Anything other "blame" is just Russian bullshit to justify what they're doing. I'd say they aren't fooling anyone, but clearly they are.

Or you do not know how world works, or you are just being naive.

[DarkTZeratul]

Or you do not know how world works, or you are just being naive.

Or we just don't buy Russia's propaganda about how their unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation under the bullshit guise of a "special operation" is somehow America's fault in any way whatsoever.

[Corvus]

Seems calling Hitler a Jew is not without consequences - Israel is not blocking Estonia from sending Israeli made Spike and Blue Spear missiles to Ukraine.

https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/20...ne-by-estonia/

The Spike is yet another anti-tank weapon while the Blue Spear is an anti-ship cruise missile that can hit the Russian fleet in Sebastopol all the way from Odessa.

[Corvus]

Reminder, Israel is fully on board with Russian tactics in Ukraine. See the West Bank for reference.

Bollocks. Things may not be rosey in the West Bank but they pale into insignificance compared to what Russia is doing in Ukraine.

[Corvus]

Aside from rape, they use the exact same tactics. Right down to calling civilians, including children, terrorists.

Indiscriminate shelling of entire cities, deliberate targetting of hundreds of hospitals, schools, train stations and other civilian infrastructure, summary execution of many thousands of civilians?

If Israel went full on genocidal in the manner Russia has, the Palestinians would have been gone decades ago.

[Corvus]

Yes, they’ve essentially done all those things and simply said “they were terrorists.” The numbers are smaller, but they’re there.

And if Russia was trying to completely wipe out Ukraine it would also look very different. It’s the same thing on a much smaller scale.

Russia is trying to wipe out Ukraine. They haven't been quiet about that.

[Mamut]

Wonder how they will react now that Finland seems to be on a the path of joining the OTAN. I really wish the US would mind their business. While Russia have the biggest part in the blame for all this mess, the US also have a big share.

Ah yeah, the bad America again at fault

[PhaelixWW]

More analysis of the absolute carnage inflicted on the Russians at the failed river crossing seems to show at least 73 vehicle now. Thats a whole BTGs worth just wiped out.

Twitter thread from retired Australian major general Mick Ryan:

Spoiler: 

Spoiler: 

Spoiler: 

Spoiler: 

Spoiler: 

Spoiler: 

Spoiler: 

[Draco-Onis]

Russia is trying to wipe out Ukraine. They haven't been quiet about that.

That's not true because people keep talking about nukes but from Napalm to biological weapons they could wipe out the entire populace without having to risk this many soldiers and equipment. The US killed more people with Napalm in Japan than with the atomic bomb, I would take atomic bomb death over napalm any day of the week.

[DarkTZeratul]

That's not true because people keep talking about nukes but from Napalm to biological weapons they could wipe out the entire populace without having to risk this many soldiers and equipment. The US killed more people with Napalm in Japan than with the atomic bomb, I would take atomic bomb death over napalm any day of the week.

"They haven't deployed WMDs so they're not really interested in genocide" is not the rock-solid argument you think it is.

[Edge-]

The US killed more people with Napalm in Japan than with the atomic bomb, I would take atomic bomb death over napalm any day of the week.

Yes more died due to traditional bombing, but...have you seen the people who weren't killed by the atomic bombs and what they suffered afterwards? Because like...they're both awful and I don't think there's a "less bad" choice between them.

Also, you don't need to use napalm or biological weapons to engage in acts of attempted genocide.

[Gaidax]

I actually do wonder why Russia is not employing chemical/biological weapons yet. Probably because they think there is no coming back from that, but I have a feeling they may yet reconsider because they can't handle these losses for much longer.

[DarkTZeratul]

I actually do wonder why Russia is not employing chemical/biological weapons yet. Probably because they think there is no coming back from that, but I have a feeling they may yet reconsider because they can't handle these losses for much longer.

They know that once they cross that line, they basically lose any and all ability to explain their invasion away as anything other than what it is. Doing so would also completely justify every other country who wants to directly aid Ukraine militarily, beyond just providing funds or supplies. Using WMDs would give everyone else a clear rationale to attack Russia directly to stop their capability to do so, and there are enough countries that are just looking for that kind of an excuse that Russia probably - hopefully - isn't stupid enough to actually give it to them.

[Corvus]

If that were true the death toll would be much higher. They want to conquer it.

They have been very, very clear that they see Ukraine as an artificial construction and deny the existence of Ukrainians as a separate people.

And you can be certain that the death toll is way higher than official figures. The death camps would happen after the war and occupation, not during it.

[Corvus]

Not seeing any difference from how Israel treats Palestine.

Then just watch Russian state media. They actively talk about the need to murder millions of Ukrainians simply for being Ukrainian and spend generations 're-educating' the rest to completely extinguish the Ukrainian identify.

Not to mention the filtration camps they run in occupied territory. If you fail the 'filtration' you are executed.

[Draco-Onis]

"They haven't deployed WMDs so they're not really interested in genocide" is not the rock-solid argument you think it is.

They are following the same playbook they did in Syria even appointed the same commander. I am simply stating if the goal was total genocide they are doing a very bad job at it. The plan was clearly to roll over Ukraine and be cheered as liberators that has changed but not to the point of wanting to wipe them out.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, you don't need to use napalm or biological weapons to engage in acts of attempted genocide.

Nope but if that was the goal you wouldn't risk all these troops and equipment like Russia is doing. Of course Russia seems to be mimicking all of America's bad war decisions from Vietnam to Iraq and Afghanistan in one war.