1. #19481
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    That doesn't mean that they are on Russia's side - because they have a greater understanding of the cost of war, and who is at fault:
    They are not on the Russian side, but they are not on our side either. And they still buy stuff from Russia since they are more of the "interested friend" kind. If push come to shove and they are forced to chose, not sure they would pick our side. Maybe, but still not a 100% chance.

  2. #19482
    Love to see Ukraine ripping the top of the jaw clean off

  3. #19483
    Titan Yunru's Avatar
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    Man that is a lot of craters:


    Makes russan losses more realistic at least. 1500 dead/missing russan soldiers and 80 destroyed tanks/other stuff (or abandoned) over 8 days of a fight.
    Don't sweat the details!!!

  4. #19484
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Ukraine also have more long-shooting artillery now so it seems that they can target the supply lines to Izyum from the re-gains in the counter-offensive, even without advancing further.
    yeah, so yellow here is Ukrainian range and red is russian range, and now those big ones from the Netherlands and Germany are on the way...their range is 30-60km dependant on ammunition, they're easily out ranging the russians. It's shocking to see the difference.:

  5. #19485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    yeah, so yellow here is Ukrainian range and red is russian range, and now those big ones from the Netherlands and Germany are on the way...their range is 30-60km dependant on ammunition, they're easily out ranging the russians. It's shocking to see the difference.:
    Once they get fully trained on the new equipment, it'll be interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  6. #19486
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    They are not on the Russian side, but they are not on our side either. And they still buy stuff from Russia since they are more of the "interested friend" kind. If push come to shove and they are forced to chose, not sure they would pick our side. Maybe, but still not a 100% chance.
    As long as China is around, push comes to shove, India will pick the US side.

    India seizes $725 million China's Xiaomi over remittances

    My enemy's enemy is my friend and all that rot.

    The Philippine's military have close ties to the US. The US & Philippine's militaries have started working on shared military's bases.

    Same with Indonesia. Jokowi would like to stay neutral. However, Indonesian military has very close ties to the US. Annual joint trainings with Hawaii and California National Guards, submarine base in Natuna, joint Maritime Training Center, etc.

    I guarantee that if they have to choose that they will pick the US.

    Ultimately, it comes down to economy. In terms of export/import, the US/EU alliance is worth 100 times that of Russia. That is true even for country like Vietnam.

    The problem with self-sufficient fortress economy is that the country ended with no shared economic interests with other countries.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2022-05-15 at 11:22 PM.

  7. #19487
    Russia's ever shrinking goals for envelopment. And its doubtful they can even pull the latest modest plans off.



    The British are estimating that Russia has lost one third of the combat ground forces it initially assembled for the invasion. That was the bulk of their 'professional' army. Reportedly things are going so well that they are stripping ship crews of their naval vessels to replenish naval infantry brigades that have been chewed up. Given that naval crews aren't exactly trained for ground combat, its just going to keep getting worse.

    The Donets river crossing disaster is even filtering through to the Russian military bloggers, some of who are embedded with Russian forces. They are still blaming bad commanders rather than Putin but its a start.

    And the Russian ambassador at the US has hinted that there are some in the Kremlin who want the whole thing over with. Not him, of course. Don't want to suicide out of the window naturally. He is adamant that they will never surrender. Never. No body has been calling for Russia to surrender. That the Russians are talking about it may be a sign that they can see things are going very badly.

  8. #19488
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    As long as China is around, push comes to shove, India will pick the US side.

    India seizes $725 million China's Xiaomi over remittances

    My enemy's enemy is my friend and all that rot.

    The Philippine's military have close ties to the US. The US & Philippine's militaries have started working on shared military's bases.

    Same with Indonesia. Jokowi would like to stay neutral. However, Indonesian military has very close ties to the US. Annual joint trainings with Hawaii and California National Guards, submarine base in Natuna, joint Maritime Training Center, etc.

    I guarantee that if they have to choose that they will pick the US.

    Ultimately, it comes down to economy. In terms of export/import, the US/EU alliance is worth 100 times that of Russia. That is true even for country like Vietnam.

    The problem with self-sufficient fortress economy is that the country ended with no shared economic interests with other countries.
    Your link is busted.
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  9. #19489
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Your link is busted.
    Thank you. Fixed below.

    India Seizes $725 Million China's Xiaomi Over Remittances

    Tension between India and China kept increasing. Russia is not going to side with India against China. Like it or not, India's only option is US/EU/AUS.

  10. #19490
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Thank you. Fixed below.

    India Seizes $725 Million China's Xiaomi Over Remittances

    Tension between India and China kept increasing. Russia is not going to side with India against China. Like it or not, India's only option is US/EU/AUS.
    Most India's military equipment is from Russia. It would cost them a lot of money if they had to rebuy all that stuff.

  11. #19491
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    They are not on the Russian side, but they are not on our side either. And they still buy stuff from Russia since they are more of the "interested friend" kind. If push come to shove and they are forced to chose, not sure they would pick our side. Maybe, but still not a 100% chance.
    Russia literally can't handle a country the third of its size. The aid Ukraine is getting is like 1/10th of what would count as pocket change of the agregate military spending capacity of NATO, which still by all intents and purposes remains a fully peace time economy.

    If Western countries really leaned into this there would be no comparison worth discussing.

    So why in the gods green earth would anyone willingly side with Russia in any meaningful way? I mean countries like Belarus don't have a choice, yet they still don't have troops in the fight, but even countries that are well within the Russian sphere of influence refuse to side with Russia on this, like Kazakhstan.

    Do you legit think, there's any scenario, ever, anywhere, where India would go -Yeah! Let's go to war with the US and EU.....for Russia....

  12. #19492
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Like half the global population since China + India are what now ? 3 billions or 4 combined ? Then you add Africa country which have no love for westerners.
    1) They're both not even 3 billion, but what does a billion more matter, when you're trying to prove something with nothing to back it up.

    2) 4/5 of the worlds population support the Ukraine and the West, source? My feelings on the matter. besides China and India are just 1 billion people (love making up numbers to support my feelings)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Most India's military equipment is from Russia. It would cost them a lot of money if they had to rebuy all that stuff.
    Who says they'd have to replace it? Russia does not have some magic remote to Russian made equipment, which enables them to disable it.

    There are several countries, including India, who would rather not be pulled into this conflict.

    https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/04/1115782

  13. #19493
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Russia literally can't handle a country the third of its size. The aid Ukraine is getting is like 1/10th of what would count as pocket change of the agregate military spending capacity of NATO, which still by all intents and purposes remains a fully peace time economy.

    If Western countries really leaned into this there would be no comparison worth discussing.

    So why in the gods green earth would anyone willingly side with Russia in any meaningful way? I mean countries like Belarus don't have a choice, yet they still don't have troops in the fight, but even countries that are well within the Russian sphere of influence refuse to side with Russia on this, like Kazakhstan.

    Do you legit think, there's any scenario, ever, anywhere, where India would go -Yeah! Let's go to war with the US and EU.....for Russia....
    By siding, I do not mean going to war for or with them but rather, not sanctioning and still buying stuff from them, etc...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    1) They're both not even 3 billion, but what does a billion more matter, when you're trying to prove something with nothing to back it up.

    2) 4/5 of the worlds population support the Ukraine and the West, source? My feelings on the matter. besides China and India are just 1 billion people (love making up numbers to support my feelings)

    - - - Updated - - -



    Who says they'd have to replace it? Russia does not have some magic remote to Russian made equipment, which enables them to disable it.

    There are several countries, including India, who would rather not be pulled into this conflict.

    https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/04/1115782
    Because if they "sanction" Russia, they will lose access to maintenance and repair parts for those equipment.

  14. #19494
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    By siding, I do not mean going to war for or with them but rather, not sanctioning and still buying stuff from them, etc...

    - - - Updated - - -



    Because if they "sanction" Russia, they will lose access to maintenance and repair parts for those equipment.
    What makes you think that Russia have a crew of workers, traveling the globe to perform service on sold equipment? Just to clarify, I have no idea if they do, but you seem to do.

    In the end, India is playing the neutral game
    Last edited by Crispin; 2022-05-16 at 06:56 AM.

  15. #19495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Because if they "sanction" Russia, they will lose access to maintenance and repair parts for those equipment.
    They probably aren't going to be getting any of those anyway, given that Russia doesn't appear to have enough of those for their own needs, much having a surplus to sell.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  16. #19496
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    By siding, I do not mean going to war for or with them but rather, not sanctioning and still buying stuff from them, etc...
    At this moment the pressure for obeying sanctions on countries like India and China is minimal to non existent.

    Still most Chinese financial and tech companies are voluntarily obeying the sanction rules.

    Same for the largest Indian industrial groups like Tata.

    For them it's just not worth the risk to annoy their western partners, customers, lenders, regulators etc, even tho there are no explicit demands asking them to do anything.

    If the Western powers (including Japan, Korea etc) get collectively annoyed enough to go -Fuck it! Full total embargo with punishments for third parties who don't abide by the embargo - Do you think India or China would risk dealing with the fallout from that and say -We just love the Russians and their shitty outdated hardware so much that we are willing to risk total economic meltdown for them?

    There are 2 reasons why we aren't demanding India/China to abide by the sanctions.

    1. Is just being respectful of their sovereignty. It's better to get them onboard passively perhaps even quitely than by offending them and making a fuss.

    2. It doesn't make a big enough difference for us to care. Neither China nor India can replace EU trade for Russia. And here comes the kicker...they don't really seem that keen to make an effort either. Like they won't even throw the Russians a bone.

  17. #19497
    Over 9000! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    1) They're both not even 3 billion, but what does a billion more matter, when you're trying to prove something with nothing to back it up.

    2) 4/5 of the worlds population support the Ukraine and the West, source? My feelings on the matter. besides China and India are just 1 billion people (love making up numbers to support my feelings)
    This is just petty, stupid, bad math.

    6 of the 9 most populous countries in the world chose not to censure Russia. The 40 countries that voted "no" or abstained account for 4.17b people, which is more than half of the 7.9b people in the world and therefore also certainly more than the 3.28b people in the 135 countries that voted "yes".

    I'm not sure why you feel like making up numbers somehow "wins" in a comeback to what amounts to a throwaway comment.


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    and genius is that genius has its limits."

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  18. #19498
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    This is just petty, stupid, bad math.

    6 of the 9 most populous countries in the world chose not to censure Russia. The 40 countries that voted "no" or abstained account for 4.17b people, which is more than half of the 7.9b people in the world and therefore also certainly more than the 3.28b people in the 135 countries that voted "yes".

    I'm not sure why you feel like making up numbers somehow "wins" in a comeback to what amounts to a throwaway comment.
    It's not even math, trying to point out to him, that numbers taken out of the arse, is not usable in any argument. I guess that went over your head.

  19. #19499
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Because if they "sanction" Russia, they will lose access to maintenance and repair parts for those equipment.
    As mentioned, Russia doesn't even have parts to preait things themselves.

    And secondly after seeing their Russian bought equipment in action against Western equipment I would not be surprised if more and more in the military start questioning the wisdom of buying more Russian equipment in the future.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  20. #19500
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    As mentioned, Russia doesn't even have parts to preait things themselves.

    And secondly after seeing their Russian bought equipment in action against Western equipment I would not be surprised if more and more in the military start questioning the wisdom of buying more Russian equipment in the future.
    The war in Ukraine is not a good advertisement for russian equipment, that is for sure.

    But India still has a lot of russian equipment, and they can't switch it overnight.

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