Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Biglog]

Got our answer pretty quick on the Turkey situation. It is indeed a concession that he wants, and very a specific one. He said today now that Turkey will approve their NATO membership conditionally on Sweden and Finland extraditing Kurdish "PKK members" to Turkey. I have a feeling they will be very reluctant to do so. The plot thickens...

[Iphie]

Got our answer pretty quick on the Turkey situation. It is indeed a concession that he wants, and very a specific one. He said today now that Turkey will approve their NATO membership conditionally on Sweden and Finland extraditing Kurdish "PKK members" to Turkey. I have a feeling they will be very reluctant to do so. The plot thickens...

Perhaps, or perhaps not, I mean if they are criminals then ask for their arrest and extradition, it only becomes hairy if he wants MP's extradited.

I think the rest of the alliance will however have a pretty dim view of using NATO to pursue an internal political agenda.

[Gaidax]

I mean, if the problem is Turkey defending their oppression of minorities, well, maybe NATO has another way to make the vote unanimous.

That won't be happening in a thousand years.

Turkey is a very important foothold in the Middle East for NATO, a gateway to the Black Sea. At the same time Erdogan is not eternal and he can be negotiated to stand down for goodies as usual.

It's a cheeky NATO member that knows its worth and is more important that half other NATO members.

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Perhaps, or perhaps not, I mean if they are criminals then ask for their arrest and extradition, it only becomes hairy if he wants MP's extradited.

They will find some compromise. Sweden and Finland are going to be in NATO, Turkey will get some concessions and that it.

[Iphie]

They will find some compromise. Sweden and Finland are going to be in NATO, Turkey will get some concessions and that it.

That's my assumption as well, like I said: I seriously doubt the rest of the alliance would bend to Turkey if they were to try and use this as leverage.

[MCMLXXXII]

Sure Turkish Pütįn, we will extradite those Kurds (fingers crossed behind their back)

[Deathknightish]

Sure Turkish Pütįn, we will extradite those Kurds (fingers crossed behind their back)

It's not just Erdogan though, that's the problem. Look up r/Sweden and r/Turkey on Reddit. There are many turks who hate Erdogfan with a passion who still agree with him on this particular point. We have managed to piss of Turkey quite a bit recently, sadly. I don't agree with it, but it's not as easy as "Erdogan bad", when probably 70-75% of turks support him in this particular decision.

[PhaelixWW]

Since India is not likely to buy weapons from China, I suspect that in the next 10 years we will see a gradual shift toward US/EU weapons.

Just based on that graphic, they're already buying arms from France and Israel. Between those two countries that could cover just about any needs they might have going forward, without the need to start buying from the US.

[Fantomen]

The economy of Turkey is collapsing, becuse of high gas and oil price, and Erdogan economic governance. Lets LOWER the intrest rate, that will stop the rampage inflation. So he need to find somthing to distract the Turkish peopel.... lets blame Sweden and Finand for PPK....

[Crispin]

Nope. I got exactly what you were saying. You were just playing with a faulty premise when you decided to embarrass yourself. Clearly the only numbers being "taken out of the arse" are yours, because what he said was not false. China and India together are 2.8 billion, which is certainly close enough to the low end of his range of 3 billion to not warrant the shitty response you made. Especially considering the fact that, as pointed out, the remaining countries bring it over 4 billion.

So the other poster was at least close with China + India, and made the point with the other countries added in. You, on the other hand, just made up some numbers in order to combat a point that really didn't need fighting.

I mean, in what world is "I think you're making up numbers, so I'm going to pointlessly make up numbers even worse than you!" in any way close to an adult response? Grow up.

No need to get all offensive, it's just a forum.

If you want to get "technical", talking about "half the worlds population is against blabla" is a false premise to begin with. China does not speak for it's population. How do I know that? They're not elected by the people.

Also he wrote

Like half the global population since China + India are what now ? 3 billions or 4 combined ?

Not sure why you're rewriting it, but oh well. I guess you bought into that argument.

The x billion people debate is irrelevant to begin with. I suggest you control your feelings when debating on a forum, it's not personal.

[Poopymonster]

Sure Turkish Pütįn, we will extradite those Kurds (fingers crossed behind their back)

We did it. We sent every one of them we found to you. We sent out this questionnaire.

Are you a member of the PKK? Yes [ ] No [ ]
If yes, please pack your bags and be ready to be sent to Turkey to be killed.
If no, have a nice day.
Thank you for your cooperation.

What? You mean no one checked Yes? Hmmm...guess we'll have to redo the questionnaire. In order to make it more precise we'll have to have a committee formed, it should take only 5 or 6 years.

[Specialka]

No need to get all offensive, it's just a forum.

If you want to get "technical", talking about "half the worlds population is against blabla" is a false premise to begin with. China does not speak for it's population. How do I know that? They're not elected by the people.

Also he wrote



Not sure why you're rewriting it, but oh well. I guess you bought into that argument.

The x billion people debate is irrelevant to begin with. I suggest you control your feelings when debating on a forum, it's not personal.

A government speaks for its population, elected or not. If not, and if they do not want them to speak for them, they are free to go all revolution, but until then, it is how it works in the real world.

[Crispin]

A government speaks for its population, elected or not. If not, and if they do not want them to speak for them, they are free to go all revolution, but until then, it is how it works in the real world.

It might speak on part of the country, but they do not represent the opinion of every single citizen.

[PhaelixWW]

Not sure why you're rewriting it, but oh well. I guess you bought into that argument.

How am I rewriting it? They posed it as a question, not a statement, for starters, and then it was a range from 3-4 billion. As I said, the 2.8 billion of China + India is certainly close enough to that range not to warrant your unhinged screeching.

Besides, as was also mentioned, China + India are only two of the 40 countries involved, and the overall point was that the combined total is more than half the world's population.

The x billion people debate is irrelevant to begin with.

Your farcical attempts to rewrite the math belie this statement. But sure, we can backpedal from your pointless pedantry for the sake of actual meaningful discussion.

I suggest you control your feelings when debating on a forum, it's not personal.

Who said it was personal? I'm just calling out someone blatantly making shit up and being nonconstructive. If you don't like it, try having a valid point next time.

We can just move on from this.

[Logwyn]

Got our answer pretty quick on the Turkey situation. It is indeed a concession that he wants, and very a specific one. He said today now that Turkey will approve their NATO membership conditionally on Sweden and Finland extraditing Kurdish "PKK members" to Turkey. I have a feeling they will be very reluctant to do so. The plot thickens...

The PKK has been designated a terrorist group by the following the United States, EU, Canada, Japan, Australia, and United Kingdom. Both Finland and Sweden have extradited members of the PKK in the past.

I like Putin's back pedaling on the idea though. From severe consequences to just do not provide Finland and Sweden with military assets.

[Corvus]

Some good news out of Mariupol - 264 wounded soldiers have been evacuated. They are going to hospitals in rebel held regions before being exchanged for Russian POWs

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-...ost_type=share

[Jastall]

It's a pyric victory for whichever country comes out on top, Ukraine was already in deep debt before the invasion, the "aid" isn't free money it's being added to their considerable debt. The millions of people that have fled will be settled in other countries and will not be return. That's not even going into the even larger debt load they will have to take on to rebuild.

The massive corruption problems the country has didn't vanish because they are fighting a war. It's going to be a shit show either way freedom isn't cheap I suppose.

It very much will be a phyrric victory in practice, but when the odds are so stacked against you any victory is still an achievement.

A lot of the post-war recovery will certainly depends on how much aid the West sends. Will be interesting to see how much international interests after peace.

[Zaydin]

Zelensky apparently put out a video praising a group of Ukrainian soldiers for pushing Russian terrorists out of Ukraine and reaching the Russian border. Would be nice if Ukraine could start putting all the new artillery its gotten from the west to start shelling Russian supply depots and logistics routes inside Russia.

Putler is also allegedly micromanaging the war and making low-level tactical decisions that would normally be handled by officers in charge of units consisting of less than 700 men.

[Rasulis]

Just based on that graphic, they're already buying arms from France and Israel. Between those two countries that could cover just about any needs they might have going forward, without the need to start buying from the US.

US assistant secretary of state for South Asian affairs, Donald Lu, disclosed to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that India has already canceled major defense imports from Russia over the past few weeks, including orders for MiG-29 fighter jets.

That was from March. No confirmation from the Indian government. No denial either.

Just for the hell of it.

[PhaelixWW]

A pyrrhic victory comes at too high a cost to be worth it. You’re saying it’d be better to surrender. Interesting stance.

What a pathetic strawman. It's clear that you don't really understand the concept and are just looking for a fight.

While a Pyrrhic victory is often tantamount to a defeat, it's important to remember that not all defeats are the same. It certainly seems, for example, like most Ukrainians would view a Pyrrhic victory as better than an outright surrender.

So maybe just stop trying to put your words into other people's mouths, eh?

[Jastall]

A pyrrhic victory comes at too high a cost to be worth it. You’re saying it’d be better to surrender. Interesting stance.

Read it as "victory with a high cost" if you prefer instead, which is another interpretation of the expression. I did not even imply surrender would be preferable and even a cursory reading of my posts in this thread would provide ample proof.