Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Gaidax]

An alternative would be to just shrug and not let Sweden and Finland into NATO. Just make a slew of bilateral defense pacts with them and all other NATO members.

I don't think any alternative will be needed, Sweden and Finland will be in NATO and Turkey will get some candy to.lift the opposition.

[Nymrohd]

And they get to keep committing genocide that Israel agrees with. I think we should just kick em out.

Well that would be an actual win for Russia.

[Gaidax]

If we'd take for a moment this imaginary scenario of Turkey being removed from NATO - it would, without a doubt, be a big present for Russia.

[Corvus]

Russia's transport Minister has admitted that sanctions have practically broken logistics in Russia.

https://mobile.twitter.com/anders_as...56831150632966

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Riiiight, because Turkey is gonna be such a big influence on Russia. With their economy ranked *checks notes* 87th in the world. Remember when people were claiming China and India would prop Russia up? Not happening. How the fuck do you think Turkey will magically make a significant impact when we delegate them to where they belong? After that, cut off Israel, SA, and anyone else doing what Russia is in Ukraine. Time to stop ignoring genocide.

So are you going to include China and the Palestinians in that list?

[Gaidax]

Russia's transport Minister has admitted that sanctions have practically broken logistics in Russia.

https://mobile.twitter.com/anders_as...56831150632966

I think them admitting or not admitting is of little essence, it's like everyone fawning over that retired colonel that forgot where he is at (and was promptly reminded of that apparently, given his subsequent miraculous recovery to the sanctioned "Russia stronk" narrative).

It is clear that these sanctions do work, but I think they are still way too mild, careful and full of holes. Just today I read in Ukrainian Pravda that some Russians bypass bank issues by using Belarusian-issued cards, which is hilarious given Belarus has practically very actively enabled much of Russian BS invasion.

The billions $$ EU is still paying Russia for energy do not help either. It is a necessity for the time being, but some decent chunk of it could have been cut if some of EU leaders would grow a spine/damn.

[zealo]

If you say so.

It actually would be.


Turkey being in NATO guarantees keeping the Russian navy locked up in the black sea, it can’t get naval assets in or out during war because the only waterway to the Mediterranean cuts straight through Istanbul.

[Breccia]

Let's see how Russia's handling things these days.

Russia sanctions Morgan Freeman

...what?

The Kremlin said Saturday it has permanently banned 963 Americans from travelling to Russia in retaliation against U.S. sanctions over its unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

Why it matters: It's a major update to a sanctions list it initially released in March that included President Biden, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and other administration officials, though the sanctions themselves are largely symbolic.

The list, published by the Russian Foreign Ministry, has been significantly expanded to encompass numerous people not involved with the U.S. government, like actor Morgan Freeman and numerous journalists.

It also includes former Sens. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) and John McCain (R-Ariz.)

"Uh, aren't--"

Yes, yes, they're both dead. Should make it pretty easy to keep them from flying into Moscow.

Russia: These actions will harm the United States!
Morgan Freeman: These actions did not harm the United States.

[Rasulis]

The Russian banned 963 Americans. Wonder if there is any significance to the number. The interesting part is who are not on the list.

Donald Trump

Mitch McConnell (Although Kevin McCarthy is on the banned list)

Rand Paul

John McCain, Harry Reid and Orrin Hatch are on the list. I guess the Russian does not want their ghosts haunting Putin.

Citizen Zuck is on the list.

American journalists barred by Russia include George Stephanopoulos of ABC News, Susan Glasser of the New Yorker, Bret Stephens of the New York Times and Bianna Golodryga of CNN. No journalists or hosts from Fox News are on the list.

Morgan Freeman is on the list.

[korijenkins]

Bla bla bla bla, Turkey is significantly more important to NATO than Sweden and Finland combined. Cope.

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What's unreasonable about extraditing PKK's leadership in Sweden?

You have been designing your foreign policy in a manner that disregards our security concerns in the last decade, ruining the relationship between Turkey and Sweden. You have not only pissed Erdogan, you have pissed a lot of Turks. If Turkey was a democratic country and if it was for people of Turkey making this decision, we would never allow Sweden to join NATO. You are lucky that you can bribe your way in and get the protection you desperately seek.

You really lack any understanding of geopolitics if you think Sweden and Finland joining NATO is for their own protection. They're already untouchable as EU members, and invading an EU member state would be no different than invading a NATO member. Joining NATO is largely a symbolic move by them, but they're already part of the "West" and will always be, unlike Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine, etc which have been in limbo between Russia and the west (and therefore subject to invasion and attacks by Russia).

[Logwyn]

You really lack any understanding of geopolitics if you think Sweden and Finland joining NATO is for their own protection. They're already untouchable as EU members, and invading an EU member state would be no different than invading a NATO member. Joining NATO is largely a symbolic move by them, but they're already part of the "West" and will always be, unlike Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine, etc which have been in limbo between Russia and the west (and therefore subject to invasion and attacks by Russia).

Finland and Sweden joining NATO mean they get support and defense from the United States and the UK since neither is in the EU. There also is some confusion taken away from Norway being in NATO and not the EU as well as to how to defend that part of Europe if needed.

[segara82]

It actually would be.


Turkey being in NATO guarantees keeping the Russian navy locked up in the black sea, it can’t get naval assets in or out during war because the only waterway to the Mediterranean cuts straight through Istanbul.

Yeah, remember when that 1 ship blocked the Suez canal and fucked up international trade for months? Nato and Russia in a pissing contest with RU open to operate in the mediterranian could 'accidently' do that again.

Or, you know, use the exportable wheat as a bargaining chip with several african nations desperate for (cheap) food. Egypt imported about 80% of its wheat from *checks statistics*
Russia and Ukraine.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

If we'd take for a moment this imaginary scenario of Turkey being removed from NATO - it would, without a doubt, be a big present for Russia.

"Hello Erdogan, I heard you were kicked out of NATO, how about joining my CSTO? Membership includes discounts on fuels, wheat and ores which your youthful industrious population desperately need. You'll get to be with all our Turkic members, and we have this awesome Coup protection program.

No strings attached. We could even move the organization's capital to Tsargr... erm Istanbul, to show how Turkiye is important on the World stage."

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Riiiight, because Turkey is gonna be such a big influence on Russia. With their economy ranked *checks notes* 87th in the world. Remember when people were claiming China and India would prop Russia up? Not happening. How the fuck do you think Turkey will magically make a significant impact when we delegate them to where they belong? After that, cut off Israel, SA, and anyone else doing what Russia is in Ukraine. Time to stop ignoring genocide.

Where are your notes from? Turkey is a G20 country, with an economy that has been trusting 20th place in nominal GDP for a while.

[Kuntantee]

You really lack any understanding of geopolitics if you think Sweden and Finland joining NATO is for their own protection. They're already untouchable as EU members, and invading an EU member state would be no different than invading a NATO member. Joining NATO is largely a symbolic move by them, but they're already part of the "West" and will always be, unlike Georgia, Moldova, Ukraine, etc which have been in limbo between Russia and the west (and therefore subject to invasion and attacks by Russia).

NATO isn't just article 5, it is a defense framework. Joint drills, rapid response forces, plans, etc. While Sweden and Finland already trained with "NATO doctrine", it still is not equal to being within NATO. It just eases the integration. Turkey, one of the most battle-hardened, well-equipped and experienced army in the NATO, will not defend Finland or Sweden unless they're part of the pack. Not to mention Turkish hardware is known to work against Russia. So this leaves an important army out of the picture already. Furthermore, Turkey can not limit the access to straits for Russia unless Finland and Sweden are part of NATO. This is dictated by Montreux. Russia is a paper tiger today, as it turns out, but they have potential to grow. If they re-structure and upgrade their army within next 20/30 years, they will start posing a threat again. So Finland and Sweden joining NATO isn't about the immediate future.

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Where are your notes from? Turkey is a G20 country, with an economy that has been trusting 20th place in nominal GDP for a while.

Turkey is a G20 country no longer thanks to Erdogan. I think our new rank is 22nd.

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Riiiight, because Turkey is gonna be such a big influence on Russia. With their economy ranked *checks notes* 87th in the world. Remember when people were claiming China and India would prop Russia up? Not happening. How the fuck do you think Turkey will magically make a significant impact when we delegate them to where they belong? After that, cut off Israel, SA, and anyone else doing what Russia is in Ukraine. Time to stop ignoring genocide.

Can you point the straits in the map?

[Poopymonster]

The Russian banned 963 Americans. Wonder if there is any significance to the number. The interesting part is who are not on the list.

Donald Trump

Mitch McConnell (Although Kevin McCarthy is on the banned list)

Rand Paul

John McCain, Harry Reid and Orrin Hatch are on the list. I guess the Russian does not want their ghosts haunting Putin.

Citizen Zuck is on the list.

American journalists barred by Russia include George Stephanopoulos of ABC News, Susan Glasser of the New Yorker, Bret Stephens of the New York Times and Bianna Golodryga of CNN. No journalists or hosts from Fox News are on the list.

Morgan Freeman is on the list.

Joe Biden Sr was on the first round of sanctions. He has been dead for around 2 decades.

[YUPPIE]

Are none of you people concerned that Putin and Lavrov have been raising nuclear threats so often lately, and casually discussing nuking or invading others, that officials are no longer taking him too seriously anymore? People are under such an impression it's just barking now that countries have prepared to join NATO and/or reinforce their defenses against Putin's threats.

They don't seem to give a shit for the fact he might get angry anymore.

[Makabreska]

And here we go again.

[Iphie]

Are none of you people concerned that Putin and Lavrov have been raising nuclear threats so often lately, and casually discussing nuking or invading others, that officials are no longer taking him too seriously anymore? People are under such an impression it's just barking now that countries have prepared to join NATO and/or reinforce their defenses against Putin's threats.

They don't seem to give a shit for the fact he might get angry anymore.

Russia doesn't mind Finland joining NATO too much.


No one is taking this lightly don't worry, now back under your rock you go.

(I'm well aware of the difference between what putin says and what he means, but unless suddenly bombs fly this is what the official line is.)

[Shadowferal]

Oh look, someone's pissed that Putin didn't launch nukes by now.
3 day war has become 3 months.

[fwc577]

Are none of you people concerned that Putin and Lavrov have been raising nuclear threats so often lately, and casually discussing nuking or invading others, that officials are no longer taking him too seriously anymore? People are under such an impression it's just barking now that countries have prepared to join NATO and/or reinforce their defenses against Putin's threats.

They don't seem to give a shit for the fact he might get angry anymore.

At this point, Putin and Lavrov are just dogs that are all bark and little bite. Due to the poor maintenance of the rest of the Russian military, I question whether Russia even has launch capable nukes ready to go.

[Gaidax]

Are we back to nO_Oks talk?

Nope no nukes, come back in a month to check again.