Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Corvus]

Glad they managed to resolve it. I'm sure Turkey enjoyed their time in the limelight, but being the odd one out on a matter like this isn't to your benefit on the long run.

Turkey got the concession it wanted so I'm not sure they care.

And speaking of own goals from Putin, NATO is expanding its readiness force from 40000 currently to 300,000 troops.

[Logwyn]

Turkey got the concession it wanted so I'm not sure they care.

And speaking of own goals from Putin, NATO is expanding its readiness force from 40000 currently to 300,000 troops.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nato-n...0said%20Monday.

Yeah. I wonder what that means. The planes haven't kicked up none-stop flights to the base near me as they did during Desert Storm.

[Corvus]

It hasn't happened yet - it is just what they are planning on doing.

Also, BoJo has accused Putin of toxic masculinity, saying a woman would never have started the war. I mean, he isn't exactly wrong, its just kind of ironic that BoJo was the one saying it. Russia runs on toxic masculinity, which is why the far right elements in the west tend to love Putin and Russia.

[Combatbutler]

What did Erdoan get in the trade?

Pretty much everything they wanted.

[Shrouded]

Pretty much everything they wanted.

Just the other way around, they barely got anything except in the case of arms exports. Now that I've gotten a change to digest the list a bit and read the analysis from smarter people than me, it sure seems like every single point is stuff Sweden and Finland were already doing. Even the sorest point, the extraditions, did not boil down to any extraditions actually happening, just reassurances that the extradition requests would be processed promptly.

Now, if the question is if Erdogan got what he really wanted, which was to pave the way for weapon imports and to make himself look important, then yes, I'd agree.

[Specialka]

Just the other way around, they barely got anything except in the case of arms exports. Now that I've gotten a change to digest the list a bit and read the analysis from smarter people than me, it sure seems like every single point is stuff Sweden and Finland were already doing. Even the sorest point, the extraditions, did not boil down to any extraditions actually happening, just reassurances that the extradition requests would be processed promptly.

Now, if the question is if Erdogan got what he really wanted, which was to pave the way for weapon imports and to make himself look important, then yes, I'd agree.

They also got a OK to get F-16 which the USA did not want initially because they did not want a country with both F-16 and S-400 which would allow them to do exercices and testing with both system (and potentially communicate the results to Russia). Obviously, the Greek are not too happy about it as well.

[Iphie]

Just the other way around, they barely got anything except in the case of arms exports. Now that I've gotten a change to digest the list a bit and read the analysis from smarter people than me, it sure seems like every single point is stuff Sweden and Finland were already doing. Even the sorest point, the extraditions, did not boil down to any extraditions actually happening, just reassurances that the extradition requests would be processed promptly.

Now, if the question is if Erdogan got what he really wanted, which was to pave the way for weapon imports and to make himself look important, then yes, I'd agree.

Regarding those extradition requests, my understanding is that Finland had received 10 in the last few years and granted 2 out of three that have been processed and was still processing the remaining 7 so even that shouldn't have been a big issue. It kinda feels Finland got caught in the crossfire between Sweden and Turkey.

[Shrouded]

Regarding those extradition requests, my understanding is that Finland had received 10 in the last few years and granted 2 out of three that have been processed and was still processing the remaining 7 so even that shouldn't have been a big issue. It kinda feels Finland got caught in the crossfire between Sweden and Turkey.

Yes I think you're absolutely right about that. And even so, Sweden has extradited people to Turkey as well, so it is not as if either country is averse to doing so. This had more to do with both Finland and Sweden having higher burdens of proof of wrong-doing before extradition than Erdogan would like, I think.

[Iphie]

Seems a compromise will be found for Kaliningrad.

Not entirely surprising, but still slightly disappointing. I suppose the EU and NATO don't want to risk anything right now. We'll see how it pans out.

[Secret Arcade]

Yes I think you're absolutely right about that. And even so, Sweden has extradited people to Turkey as well, so it is not as if either country is averse to doing so. This had more to do with both Finland and Sweden having higher burdens of proof of wrong-doing before extradition than Erdogan would like, I think.

Pretty much. When they bring a good case, we extradite, but they never do. They don't have much proof of anything and as long as the only thing these "terrorists" have done wrong is to be Kurdish, pro-Kurdish, or in other ways simply a dissident, then they'll have no luck.

At one point they even wanted us to extradite a man who has been dead for years, so they should be taken with a grain of salt.

Generally speaking, the deal doesn't change a whole lot. It's mostly clarifications of things that were already in place or on the way, except for the weapons embargo being lifted. But that doesn't really change much either.

[Crispin]

Seems a compromise will be found for Kaliningrad.

Not entirely surprising, but still slightly disappointing. I suppose the EU and NATO don't want to risk anything right now. We'll see how it pans out.

Might have struck a “keep the gas flowing and we’ll open” deal.

Either way, it’s not something that did any major harm on Russia as a whole. I guess they for a smell of how “loosing land” feels like.

[Voidism]

I went from being neutral about NATO to being pro-NATO. My change in opinion had a lot to do with these recent years of Russian aggression, and standing in solidarity with Finland (enabling NATO to supply/support Finland through Sweden).

Pretty much the same for me.

[Logwyn]

Just the other way around, they barely got anything except in the case of arms exports. Now that I've gotten a change to digest the list a bit and read the analysis from smarter people than me, it sure seems like every single point is stuff Sweden and Finland were already doing. Even the sorest point, the extraditions, did not boil down to any extraditions actually happening, just reassurances that the extradition requests would be processed promptly.

Now, if the question is if Erdogan got what he really wanted, which was to pave the way for weapon imports and to make himself look important, then yes, I'd agree.

Erdogan got to show Russia that the other countries in NATO at least will listen to what he says and wants and Turkey is not some red-headed step child of NATO. That's bigger than really anything else.

[Bakis]

As far as I understood the domestic claim by Turkey that Sweden/Finland will extradite (almost exclusively nationl citizens) is being questioned by Turkish media from all directions. Wether it be segments of the political spectrum totally agaisnt being in NATO at all to thinking NATO shouldnt expand.
And its quite from the swedish and finnish officials.

I have yet to know exactly what the deal is all about apart from the easy stuff like lifting bans on selling the turkish nutcases weapons and the US deal to provide spare parts for F-16's etc.
Turkey knows it is out of the question to extradite citizens even if we disregard that Turkey view the political wing as a terrorist organization when neither EU, US does.

Apart from not extraditing citizens the fact is, no swede or finn will sacrfice a NATO membership cos of the Kurdish situation not matter how just they might be.
It would make no sense no matter how much of a shitty pseudo dictatorship Turkey is to sit on high horses when its about self preservation against facist Russia.

[Corvus]

Russia have abandoned snake Island. They claim they have finished their tasks there and this is a gesture of goodwill to show they aren't blocking Ukrainian grain exports. The reality is they were getting hammered there repeatedly for no gain.

[DarkAmbient]

It hasn't happened yet - it is just what they are planning on doing.

Also, BoJo has accused Putin of toxic masculinity, saying a woman would never have started the war. I mean, he isn't exactly wrong, its just kind of ironic that BoJo was the one saying it. Russia runs on toxic masculinity, which is why the far right elements in the west tend to love Putin and Russia.

I guess he forgot about Catherine the Great.

[Iphie]

Russia have abandoned snake Island. They claim they have finished their tasks there and this is a gesture of goodwill to show they aren't blocking Ukrainian grain exports. The reality is they were getting hammered there repeatedly for no gain.

Even if that's the case it's still a HUGE symbolic victory for Ukraine. (Also it seems russians are very susceptible to tit-for-tat, yesterday it was made known that a compromise would be possible on Kaliningrad, so I would not be surprised if that was part of the deal.)

[Mihalik]

Russia have abandoned snake Island. They claim they have finished their tasks there and this is a gesture of goodwill to show they aren't blocking Ukrainian grain exports. The reality is they were getting hammered there repeatedly for no gain.

We're not retreating because we lost a dozen ships+flag ship and got everything we put on the island bombed and shelled, we're leaving cuz we want to!

Ok.

[Corvus]

This was Snake Island the day before so it is little wonder the Russians bravely turned their tails and fled.

[Yunru]

Man, even a soldier who was used in propaganda is shocked that they use him as a lie.