1. #22321
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    If you think denying visas for tourists as a way to pressure the russian government is inhumane, you are just flat out stupid. Simple as.
    Hey, if 80% Russian households have plumbing, then maybe it is inhumane?
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  2. #22322
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Nonsense. The people are responsible for their governments, whether they chose them or not. They have the power, if they're too afraid or too comfortable to do anything they are complicit all the same. Weakness, cowardice or stupidity are no excuse.
    Why stop at just their own country's government? Why not apply this logic to the entire world and every one of its horrible issues? Why isn't everyone everywhere just constantly risking their own life/happiness at basically all times to stop this type of behavior? Why are you not over there right now fighting this tyranny? I mean apparently normal people have the power to change this type of stuff pretty easily without any risk of harm to self?

    /s

  3. #22323
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Why stop at just their own country's government? Why not apply this logic to the entire world and every one of its horrible issues? Why isn't everyone everywhere just constantly risking their own life/happiness at basically all times to stop this type of behavior? Why are you not over there right now fighting this tyranny? I mean apparently normal people have the power to change this type of stuff pretty easily without any risk of harm to self?

    /s
    So here's the thing: this already happened a good 30 years ago all over eastern Europe. Nobody said it's easy. But to let ruSSians off the hook and say "well they'd be imprisoned for speaking up and it doesn't change a thing"... nope we all seen that it is possible to topple the whole fucking eastern block if the peoples want to.

    And it's not only eastern EU 30 years ago, the Vietnam war was also stopped by a people having had enough of it. Sure in a democracy, but they were also jailed and beaten in the beginning.

  4. #22324
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Unless you hold the weapon you're not a murderer. Sorry but civilians are not responsible for a military or a government even in fucking democracies. In a Dictatorship they have even less responsibility.

    Every human (and until genetics change Russians are human) are responsible for three people (unless they are a parent) They, themselves and there own bodies. If someone I know goes and kills someone I didn't do it I am not responsible.
    My sympathy for the average Russian vanished after the atrocities in Bucha came to light.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  5. #22325
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Why stop at just their own country's government? Why not apply this logic to the entire world and every one of its horrible issues? Why isn't everyone everywhere just constantly risking their own life/happiness at basically all times to stop this type of behavior? Why are you not over there right now fighting this tyranny? I mean apparently normal people have the power to change this type of stuff pretty easily without any risk of harm to self?

    /s
    Nobody has ever claimed it would be easy or painless for the Russian people to bring change to Russia.

    That however doesn't mean the rest of this continent shouldn't be doing what it can to nudge them into taking that step, we've had over 30 years of Russians having the chance of reconciling with their own past while enjoying relatively open relations with the rest of Europe, and it's still lead up to this. Instead, Russia is now embracing fascism on a wider scale.

  6. #22326
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Nonsense. The people are responsible for their governments, whether they chose them or not. They have the power, if they're too afraid or too comfortable to do anything they are complicit all the same. Weakness, cowardice or stupidity are no excuse.

    When your government does something awful and evil and you do not attempt to stop it, you and everyone in your family are guilty. Evil is enabled by good people who do nothing. That is why when American forces liberated concentration camps they forced the populations of nearby towns to see the corpses of the people their government murdered while they stood by and pretended to know nothing.

    So yes, in no uncertain terms, all Russians are guilty. Except those who actually do something to stop their nefarious government.
    where are you from so we can flame you for things your gov does?

    Travel ban for russian holiday makers is fine.

  7. #22327
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I mean, that only really worked in WW2 because Germany was fighting a two-front war and had unwisely chosen to pursue Russia into the Russian heartland during a crushing winter.
    Also American aid was pouring into Russia back then, no matter how they try to downplay it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Turkey has been building (very successfully) a pan Turkic group for a while now cosying up to the central asian republics plus Azerbaijan. This has actually been one of the smart things the country has been doing and one of the reasons central asia is slipping out of Russia's influence over the past few years. (It's going slow but I think it's more the whole slow boil a frog thing and being done deliberately that way)

    Generally I'm more surprised the PRC hasn't been pushing harder into the region, basically as a boss move to Putin telling him that it's China's hemesphere now not Russia's, I know Xi wants cordial relations but at the same time China does want its own sphere of influence too and there are many resources to be exploited in the area.
    It is too easy to remind those Turkic/Muslim 'stans in Central Asia just what China is doing to their own Turkic/Muslim minority.

    They will deal with China, but I suspect they might not want to get too cosy.

  8. #22328
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    where are you from so we can flame you for things your gov does?

    Travel ban for russian holiday makers is fine.
    Yeah ditto here. Let's see how they use congitive dissonance to deal with Yemen crisis.

    For others this sin't meant to be supporting Russia but to not be a fucking hypocrite.

  9. #22329
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Hey, if 80% Russian households have plumbing, then maybe it is inhumane?
    I doubt the peasants shitting in holes in the ground have the money to travel a lot lol.

  10. #22330
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    As a reminder - civilians are not on the table for bashing and baiting commentary. Even if you feel x number of them should've taken x action so they're not all evil in your eyes, that's not up for debate nor conducive to political discussion. Keep your criticism where appropriate for this forum - governing and military bodies/ persons.
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  11. #22331
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    So, apparently there were no US weapons used to hit Crimea, I would obviously be a bit sceptical but there's two countries who know if Ukraine has that range: the US and Ukraine, if the US says "we didn't give them weapons with that range", one has to wonder what's going on there.

    Another article

    https://twitter.com/jseldin/status/1558140093759643657

  12. #22332
    Probably first the best it remains a mystery, especially to the Russians. If they don't know what happened then they would be worried that it could happen again.

  13. #22333
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Probably first the best it remains a mystery, especially to the Russians. If they don't know what happened then they would be worried that it could happen again.
    I doubt it's a mystery to anyone each side is trying to spin their narrative that suits them.

  14. #22334
    I have this feeling that the Ukraine is about to start pushing Russia back and then across the border....

  15. #22335
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    I have this feeling that the Ukraine is about to start pushing Russia back and then across the border....
    Honestly, the explosions going off inside Russia should be more concerning to Russia than an oncoming army. You can see an oncoming army and put things in the way. Stopping an artillery shell, missile strike, or probably more and more often saboteur is harder.

    Has anyone seen our favorite turnip muncher? No? Probably couldn't pay his electric bill. Russian Economy Contracts Sharply as War and Sanctions Take Hold

    The economy shrank 4 percent from April through June compared with a year earlier, the Russian statistics agency said on Friday. It is the first quarterly gross domestic product report to fully capture the change in the economy since the invasion of Ukraine in February. It was a sharp reversal from the first quarter, when the economy grew 3.5 percent.

    Western sanctions, which cut off Russia from about half of its $600 billion emergency stash of foreign currency and gold reserves, imposed steep restrictions on dealings with Russian banks and cut access to American technology, prompting hundreds of major Western corporations to pull out of the country.

    But even as imports to Russia dried up and financial transactions were blocked, forcing the country to default on its foreign debt, the Russian economy proved more resilient than some economists had initially expected, and the fall in G.D.P. reported on Friday was not as severe as some had expected in part because the country’s coffers were flush with energy revenue as global prices rose.

    Analysts, though, say the economic toll will grow heavier as Western nations increasingly turn away from Russian oil and gas, critical sources of export revenue.

    “We thought it would be a deep dive this year and then even out,” Laura Solanko, a senior adviser at the Bank of Finland Institute for Economies in Transition, said of the Russian economy. Instead, there has been a milder economic decline, but it will continue into next year, putting the economy in a shallower recession for two years, she said.

    Michael S. Bernstam, a research fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, said the data released on Friday were in line with other reports from Russia. He, too, expects the economy to deteriorate in the second half of this year, and then again in 2023.
    Yeah so every expert posted the same thing and I cited them: Russia was prepared for the initial shock and was able to rig its own currency market. Problem was, Ukraine didn't immediately disintegrate, and Russia could only hold itself up for so long. They can still sell oil and gas, but less of it -- the EU is about to turn the spigot off, and it's unlikely China or India will take it all at a high price when they have no reason to. But they're running out of ingredients to make pretty much anything else except mail-order brides and troll farms. Oh, and all that stuff they did to prop up their economy? Spiked inflation. We've seen reports that the US had a record-breaking 8.5% inflation recently. Ouch! Thing is, Russia at the same time was at 15%.

    The IMF believes Russia will have 12-15% inflation through the year, and not return to GDP growth until 2025. And from the looks of things...Ukraine might still be fighting back then.

  16. #22336

  17. #22337

  18. #22338
    So $10bn more being made available to the Russian war effort. I can see that going well......

    "So what are you going to do with the $8bn I'm giving you."

    "Don't worry comrade, I can assure you that you'll get the full $6bn worth of equipment. Let me talk to my suppliers"

    "Absolutely, $4bn worth of kit, on it's way. What do you mean, you only received $2bn worth of it?"
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  19. #22339
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    So $10bn more being made available to the Russian war effort. I can see that going well......

    "So what are you going to do with the $8bn I'm giving you."

    "Don't worry comrade, I can assure you that you'll get the full $6bn worth of equipment. Let me talk to my suppliers"

    "Absolutely, $4bn worth of kit, on it's way. What do you mean, you only received $2bn worth of it?"
    Well if it was anything like their olympics where 30 out of the 50 billion allocated to it disappeared, You may be right.
    Hey maybe they will have enough cash left over to give shlacker a job again posting propaganda.

  20. #22340
    lol @ the LPR commander crying about not having any gear and having rounded up all the fighting men they are now sending him people with serious illnesses and old people.

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