1. #23321
    i watched this whole meeting for what you can and am just baffled at how commentators think Xi holds authority over Putin
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  2. #23322
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    i watched this whole meeting for what you can and am just baffled at how commentators think Xi holds authority over Putin
    'we understand your concerns' lol.

    Russia can only ever be the junior partner to China and it doesn't look like China are happy. No microchips, no arms, no aid.

  3. #23323
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    i watched this whole meeting for what you can and am just baffled at how commentators think Xi holds authority over Putin
    Russia has nothing China can't get elsewhere but China has stuff Russia can now only get from it. Simple.

  4. #23324
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    i watched this whole meeting for what you can and am just baffled at how commentators think Xi holds authority over Putin
    Russia:
    Population: 143,054,637
    Sanctioned to hell economy by over 50% of the world's GDP
    Weaponry that has shown not to be as great as the world perceived.
    Generally losing in Ukraine.
    With enough nukes to kill everyone

    China:
    Population: 1,411,778,724
    GDP: $30.18 trillion (PPP), $19.91 trillion (Nominal)
    Not even as close to as sanctioned as Russia
    Larger military
    More world wide influence
    Enough nukes to blow up the world (So cancels out Russia)

    So China, with more people (The Indonesian Island of Java has more people in it than the entire Russian federation), richer, more influence in the world. But it is not in their interest to do so. Since western sanctions the costs of Gas and oil from Russia plummeted.

    In the world of international diplomacy, which is a poker room where everyone is cheating and bullshitting. When China and Russia sit at the table China has a straight flush and is always outwardly calm, while Russia is holding a pair and is bluffing loudly.

  5. #23325
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    (The Indonesian Island of Java has more people in it than the entire Russian federation)
    Well that's a fun factoid, gonna have to file that away for later.

  6. #23326
    so do you people really believe China isn't in it to help Russia take down Ukraine?
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  7. #23327
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so do you people really believe China isn't in it to help Russia take down Ukraine?
    Of course they're not. If they weren't doing it six months ago, they sure as hell aren't going to do it now. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

  8. #23328
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Well that's a fun factoid, gonna have to file that away for later.
    OT, but look at this for fun factoids:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valeri...ris_circle.svg

  9. #23329
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Of course they're not. If they weren't doing it six months ago, they sure as hell aren't going to do it now. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose.
    so Russia's only ally in arms to fund their war machine is Iran? They sold them drones recently that have been viciously effective in Ukraine.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  10. #23330
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so Russia's only ally in arms to fund their war machine is Iran? They sold them drones recently that have been viciously effective in Ukraine.
    Oh, China will be happy to take advantage of the situation to buy cheap gas from Russia, but that's about all they're going to do.

  11. #23331
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so do you people really believe China isn't in it to help Russia take down Ukraine?
    It's not in China's interest to do so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so Russia's only ally in arms to fund their war machine is Iran? They sold them drones recently that have been viciously effective in Ukraine.
    They've been easily hacked and/or broken down. If anything Iran gave them duds. Either by design or because their drones are terrible, or both.

  12. #23332
    Putin admits China has 'questions' and 'concerns' over its invasion of Ukraine after his meeting with Xi. If he is willing to admit that then it probably went beyond just questions and concerns. China has some major internal economic problems at the moment and the war is simply making them worse.

  13. #23333
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Putin admits China has 'questions' and 'concerns' over its invasion of Ukraine after his meeting with Xi. If he is willing to admit that then it probably went beyond just questions and concerns. China has some major internal economic problems at the moment and the war is simply making them worse.


    I can't be the only one that looked at the centerpiece and thought, "That's oddly sorta coffin-shaped."

    Also, amusing that it seems that Xi and Putin are the only two unmasked in the room. And that while everyone else appears to largely be relatively close together, they each have a pretty big personal bubble around them. Optics are fun.

  14. #23334
    it's been said time and again, but with renewed hostilities, it's never a tired topic:

    I see China wanting Russia to win in Ukraine just to gauge their invasion of Taiwan. If Russia gets its ass kicked in Ukraine, they will probably not commit to the idea for the foreseeable future; thus explaining their apparent displeasure when discussing progress today. If they win, China will feel they can succeed and go for it.

    It's of very important note since the West is collectively backing Ukraine against Russia. China can assess this situation for how a battle to take over Taiwan would go, as it would put China against the West as well.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  15. #23335
    Putin's chef, the head of Wagner (though in reality Putin calls the shots) has been videoed in a Russian prison addressing prisoners there telling them either they fight or their children do, and if they fight for 6 months with Wagner then the get a full pardon. If they get released to fight but don't then they will be executed.

    The only way that a mercenary company (which is technically illegal under Russian law) can be actively recruiting from prisons and making the promises they are is if they were sanctioned by the state to do so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So how good is Russia's economy going? So good they had a 1.5 trillion ruble deficit over summer and now they are administrating an across the board cut of 10% in budgetary expenses. Except for the military. Everything else, healthcare, education, transportation, infrastructure is getting a big cut in their budgets.

    - - - Updated - - -

    First it was Azerbaijan and Armenia and now Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan are fighting.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...rce=reddit.com

  16. #23336
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post

    First it was Azerbaijan and Armenia and now Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan are fighting.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...rce=reddit.com
    Well if Armenia invoking CSTO version of art 5 and Russia going "can't help." wasn't enough evidence of how much of a terrible state the so called treaty is. Having two members fighting each other pretty much seals it.

    In NATO terms this would be if two balkan NATO members ended up in conflict, after the US went into a war it couldn't win against Canada, while at the same time Sweden (using them since technically not in NATO yet.) attacked Norway with Denmark cheering them on and the US deciding it can't help Norway and rest of NATO not wanting to.

    Not the best analogy I know. Though the two stans geographical location could have Xi send someone over to make a few deals to stop the fighting there and get two new nations in China's sphere.

  17. #23337
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Well if Armenia invoking CSTO version of art 5 and Russia going "can't help." wasn't enough evidence of how much of a terrible state the so called treaty is. Having two members fighting each other pretty much seals it.

    In NATO terms this would be if two balkan NATO members ended up in conflict, after the US went into a war it couldn't win against Canada, while at the same time Sweden (using them since technically not in NATO yet.) attacked Norway with Denmark cheering them on and the US deciding it can't help Norway and rest of NATO not wanting to.

    Not the best analogy I know. Though the two stans geographical location could have Xi send someone over to make a few deals to stop the fighting there and get two new nations in China's sphere.
    Let's not act as if the CSTO wasn't in place for russia and russia alone, but this will effectively kill that treaty. Though you can argue it was already dead when none of the CSTO countries came to russia's aid in Ukraine.

  18. #23338
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so do you people really believe China isn't in it to help Russia take down Ukraine?
    You really need to see Russia and China's alliance for what it is.

    Their only common ground, is that they're sick of US presence in their region. Other than that, theyre advisaries in recent history, culturally very different and neighbouring regional powers.

    While Russia probably would support a Chinese all out war with Taiwan, China is far more pragmatic and only need Russia for their own ambitions, and as a chea gas station that will also back them in international political matters.


    If China could reclaim Vladivostok without a nuclear threat they would.

    And keep in mind, that Putin sold this to Xi Jinping as a quick and easy special operation. Not a long war that showed how China's partner in defence, is utter shit.

  19. #23339
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    China will need Russia to watch its back, while it will eventually get to gnawing on Taiwan. But now is not the time, so China gives Russia some careful support, because it's not worth for them to commit too hard there at the time, especially given Russian incompetence and what would seem like Russia getting mired into a hopeless situation.

  20. #23340
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    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

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