Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Iphie]

Doesn't matter if they're respected or not, they can always be rewritten on a moment's notice.

Nah, they still *try* to appear democratic so they have votes, and a signing into law, takes at least a few hours.

[Crispin]

Yeah, like bombing of the Nordstream pipelines.

Unused pipeline is sabotaged, oh noes.

It’s a matter of.

1) suck it up and turn down expenses abit, not an issue considering the extrelemy high living standards in Sweden (unless you’re living of welfare, but hey)

2) war against Russia in 5-10 years

You’d obviously take door number two, go figure.

[Gabriel]

Since you're making blatant claims that my 10k euros/year cost for electricity in Sweden is a number I pulled out of my ass, here's an article for you. In fact it says it could cost up to 10.000 euros PER MONTH in worst case scenario.
Feel free to translate it yourself since I'm not going to bother spending more time on this subject:
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a...d-strypt-gasen

People shouldn't have fallen for the market price gas/electricity meme. I couldn't have less sympathy for anyone that got one of those contracts.

[Kaleredar]

Yeah, like bombing of the Nordstream pipelines.

Simply put:

It’s better to suffer temporary monetary inconvenience than to allow Russia to run rampant across Europe.

Convince us otherwise.

[Strawberry]

Which were delivering zero gas even before that.

Think long term.

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Simply put:

It’s better to suffer temporary monetary inconvenience than to allow Russia to run rampant across Europe.

Convince us otherwise.

You think the gas prices are temporary?
Have you actually SEEN people drive less after the spike? A few years ago, the gas prices were almost half that of today. Yet I see the same traffic.
You think the countries don't see that? Sweden has insane taxes on gas, the traffic is the same and these new gas prices are the new normal.
Same with electricity. Nordstream might have been bombed by EU to keep high electricity costs. Speculation of course, but if Vatican priests can do things to kids, then why can't government do same things to its people.... in capitalism, anything goes.

[Edge-]

Nordstream might have been bombed by EU to keep high electricity costs.

Yeah...but no...and also, very no.

but if Vatican priests can do things to kids

This is completely and totally irrelevant. You're grasping at straws.

[zorkuus]

Nordstream might have been bombed by EU to keep high electricity costs.

Ok ruZZki, it's time for you to leave. Hey mods why are you so useless? You'll ban me instead won't you?

[Kaleredar]

Think long term.

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You think the gas prices are temporary?
Have you actually SEEN people drive less after the spike? A few years ago, the gas prices were almost half that of today. Yet I see the same traffic.
You think the countries don't see that? Sweden has insane taxes on gas, the traffic is the same and these new gas prices are the new normal.

Even if all that were true, it’d still be better than allowing Russia to aggress sovereign countries unchecked.

The majority of the EU recognizes that higher fuel prices are preferable to their apartment buildings and schools being indiscriminately shelled by Russians in a few years, and along with the US and Ukrainian fighters are ensuring that Russia will possess absolutely zero capacity to do so. They are succeeding.

Same with electricity. Nordstream might have been bombed by EU to keep high electricity costs.

It’s far more likely that Russia, in yet another colossal blunder in the litany of colossal blunders that has been their failed invasion, made yet another tactical misstep in an effort to show strength.

Speculation of course, but if Vatican priests can do things to kids, then why can't government do same things to its people.... in capitalism, anything goes.

The fuck does that have to do with anything

[Iphie]

Ok, so hear me out as I'm a bit confused here.

So Zelensky says he has information that russia intends to blow the Nova Kharkova dam, which is not unfounded given that the russians made claims that they thought Ukraine would do that. HOWEVER, if they do then they are ALSO blowing up the Crimean water supply, at which point they might as well surrender Crimea, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia as they have no longer the same or any real value for russia, or am I missing something? (apart from russia being a twat and spiteful.)

[jeezusisacasual]

Think long term.

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You think the gas prices are temporary?
Have you actually SEEN people drive less after the spike? A few years ago, the gas prices were almost half that of today. Yet I see the same traffic.
You think the countries don't see that? Sweden has insane taxes on gas, the traffic is the same and these new gas prices are the new normal.
Same with electricity. Nordstream might have been bombed by EU to keep high electricity costs. Speculation of course, but if Vatican priests can do things to kids, then why can't government do same things to its people.... in capitalism, anything goes.

This is a good in a few different areas, it forces development into newer technologies due to the costs associated with the previous commodity. This is also good news because it also forces Russia to either diversify its markets while also weakening them in the medium to long term if they happen to be stubborn, which not only stops their future war machine in its tracks. I still think the sanctions are to weak, i would start piling them on to almost force a civilian revolt or force their hand in a more desperate measure and see if their mouth matches the muscles they used to flex ( but hey a nation 1/3rd the population and 45 spots lower on the economic ladder can hold them just fine ).

The better question from a financial standpoint is will it be worth it to have an extremely expensive winter to take out one of the worst regimes in the world? And depending on your response to that will tell us which line you are willing to cross.

[Corvus]

Ok, so hear me out as I'm a bit confused here.

So Zelensky says he has information that russia intends to blow the Nova Kharkova dam, which is not unfounded given that the russians made claims that they thought Ukraine would do that. HOWEVER, if they do then they are ALSO blowing up the Crimean water supply, at which point they might as well surrender Crimea, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia as they have no longer the same or any real value for russia, or am I missing something? (apart from russia being a twat and spiteful.)

It's about causing massive damage to Ukraine. Not only will it flood Kherson but numerous other settlements downstream, bringing death and destruction to many more civilians.

And it also denies electricity generation to Ukraine, part of their war crime strategy. It isn't just at the dam, but also upstream at the nuclear power plant. Falling water levels in the reseviour would take it off-line as well.

[Crispin]

Think long term.

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You think the gas prices are temporary?
Have you actually SEEN people drive less after the spike? A few years ago, the gas prices were almost half that of today. Yet I see the same traffic.
You think the countries don't see that? Sweden has insane taxes on gas, the traffic is the same and these new gas prices are the new normal.
Same with electricity. Nordstream might have been bombed by EU to keep high electricity costs. Speculation of course, but if Vatican priests can do things to kids, then why can't government do same things to its people.... in capitalism, anything goes.

Long term and Russian gas is not a factor at all, I suggest you keep up on news.

Gas prices are actually falling atm.

And diesel volumes are dropping in Sweden and Denmark.

And the idea that the EU bombed nordstream to keep electricity prices up, are just fucking hilarious. Which EU special force did it? How are all EU countries in on it? Where does the EU profit from this? What about the hours where electricity is free due to wind and solar power? Nordstream was not in use and it had zero effect on gas supplies. It’s a conspiracy theory with zero thought behind it.

I hope you’re paid for posting ideas that silly.

[qwerty123456]

Which EU special force did it? How are all EU countries in on it?

The EUminati

[postman1782]

Yeah, like bombing of the Nordstream pipelines.

Russia did that.

[Iphie]

It's about causing massive damage to Ukraine. Not only will it flood Kherson but numerous other settlements downstream, bringing death and destruction to many more civilians.

And it also denies electricity generation to Ukraine, part of their war crime strategy. It isn't just at the dam, but also upstream at the nuclear power plant. Falling water levels in the reseviour would take it off-line as well.

I understand those effects, it's just that it will also affect Crimea and runs counter to the war goals. But then again russia seems to be rather unbothered by its own war goals.

I'm not saying they won't, obviously, just that doing so would make little sense as they need the reservoir themselves as well.

[Kaleredar]

I understand those effects, it's just that it will also affect Crimea and runs counter to the war goals. But then again russia seems to be rather unbothered by its own war goals.

I'm not saying they won't, obviously, just that doing so would make little sense as they need the reservoir themselves as well.

I don't think Russia really cares about what happens to the people living in Crimea, Russian or otherwise.

[Iphie]

I don't think Russia really cares about what happens to the people living in Crimea, Russian or otherwise.

Too true, also I haven't taken to account that the russians would stage a False Flag. If they blow up the dam they're likely to blame Ukraine for it.

Either way, those dams aren't small potatoes so they would need some serious firepower.

[Kaleredar]

Too true, also I haven't taken to account that the russians would stage a False Flag. If they blow up the dam they're likely to blame Ukraine for it.

A false flag which would, of course, be believed by nobody that matters.

Either way, those dams aren't small potatoes so they would need some serious firepower.

I mean, as you said, it's a terrible idea, which is unfortunately exactly why they might attempt it.

[Ihavewaffles]

Ukrainian foreign minister tricked into admitting Ukraine was behind Kerch Bridge explosion

The Telegraph
Oct 13, 2022



Ukraine’s foreign minister was tricked into admitting Kyiv was behind the explosions on Crimea's Kerch Bridge by Russian pranksters posing as a former US ambassador.

In footage released from the call, Dmitry Kuleba claims credit for the attack on the sole link between annexed Crimea and Russia, as well as another explosion, which knocked out the power supply in a Russian city bordering Ukraine.

“Well, if you were to ask me who blows up things in Crimea or Belgorod, then speaking privately, as much privacy we can have in a Zoom call, I’d tell you, yes, that was us,” Mr Kuleba said in the edited footage, which was widely reported by Russian state media

[Cynep]

HOWEVER, if they do then they are ALSO blowing up the Crimean water supply, at which point they might as well surrender Crimea, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia as they have no longer the same or any real value for russia, or am I missing something?

Crimea was taken in 2014 for (1) port of Sevastopol (there was some stupid talk about ending the Russian lease), (2) symbolic value. Value of agriculture in the smallish part of Crimea irrigated by the Dnieper water is again more symbolic (hurt pride) than economic. Most of the peninsula is completely unaffected by the canal.

So in theory destroying the Kahovka dam hurts mainland Ukraine more than Crimea even if we ignore electricity generation.

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I said the situation was similar, not that it is a civil war. One and a half provinces have been in open rebellion for years prior.

This is exactly my point: this "open rebellion" exists only in Russian propaganda and imagination of westerners who believe said propaganda. Civil war / rebellion is a grassroots process, project Novorossia (later renamed into DPR+LPR) was a foreign (Russian) special forces / espionage operation performed under command of now famous Igor Girkin aka Strelkov after he finished the same with Crimea. This is open verifiable data, check for yourself. No one thought to create a separatist republic here until Strelkov came from Russia and created it. And even then, separatist supporters thought that DPR will be immediately annexed into Russia like Crimea was, not remain an unrecognized shithole state.

And coming back to Kherson which started this discussion, even in Russian propaganda there was absolutely no mention of rebellion or civil war there. "We came, we liberated" doesn't give an excuse for traitors to do treasonous actions.

And choosing to side with a genocidal invader is a political choice.

And as I said, people are judged for their actions not some abstract allegiances.

So pretty much what I said? This whole thing spanning at least one generation?

Ok, cultural/language differences. For me here, 80+ years is a lifetime, while a generation is more like 20-25 years.