Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Saradain]

if this was ukraine that caused it, they need to end all international support for deception and deception of this scale

Gotcha, you are most definitely a pro-Russian poster without a doubt now.

Russia itself was disarming Ukraine since USSR collapsed, with a promise to never attack Ukraine. Ergo, Ukraine's capability to defend itself was hurt big time, and we all know what happened later on.

Now you go all out and pretend Ukraine somehow intentionally tried to fake a rocket attack on NATO to cause shit on Russia. With no evidence which is your specialty.

When some Western nations are too chickenshit to give proper modern armaments so Ukraine could end this war, instead they have to use what they got to ensure best defensive coverage - incidents like this could happen. And NOTHING is confirmed yet, as in what actually happened. But you choose to go wild 180 degree turn to scream at Ukraine

Surely Russia has no part in this ukrainian need to use defensive systems, Ukraine just decided to fuck over all international support for lols.

[YUPPIE]

"IF"

Besides that clarification, it doesn't help Ukraine started by allegedly claiming this whole affair being their own was a Russian conspiracy theory. Everyone trusted Ukraine too for obvious reasons.

I just hope Zelenksy knows his international trust is kind of on a thin wire. Not many Americans have taken kindly to his repeated begging for aid for a while now with our own issues. He should never take this shit for granted.

[Gabriel]

"IF"

Besides that clarification, it doesn't help Ukraine started by allegedly claiming this whole affair being their own was a Russian conspiracy theory. Everyone trusted Ukraine too for obvious reasons.

I just hope Zelenksy knows his international trust is kind of on a thin wire. Not many Americans have taken kindly to his repeated begging for aid for a while now with our own issues. He should never take this shit for granted.

Bro, lay down whatever you are smoking right now, and go to bed. You're making even less sense than usual.

[ABEEnr2]

"IF"

Besides that clarification, it doesn't help Ukraine started by allegedly claiming this whole affair being their own was a Russian conspiracy theory. Everyone trusted Ukraine too for obvious reasons.

I just hope Zelenksy knows his international trust is kind of on a thin wire. Not many Americans have taken kindly to his repeated begging for aid for a while now with our own issues. He should never take this shit for granted.

Funny how not so long ago u said u were not a pro Russians

[Saradain]

Reuters

Biden says missile that killed two in Poland may not have come from Russia

WARSAW, Nov 16 (Reuters) - A missile that killed two people in Poland was probably not fired from Russia, U.S. President Joe Biden said on Wednesday after holding talks with leaders of Western allies amid concerns the Ukraine conflict could spill into neighbouring countries.
The explosion on Tuesday at a grain facility near the Ukrainian border came as Russia unleashed a wave of missiles targeting Ukrainian energy infrastructure, attacks that Kyiv said were the heaviest in nearly nine months of war.

According to U.S. officials, initial findings suggested that the missile that hit Poland was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile, the Associated Press reported, having earlier cited a senior U.S. intelligence official as saying the blast was due to Russian missiles.

Initial findings seem to be the above consensus, however word from Poland in the same article says the following:

Polish President Andrzej Duda had also told reporters earlier that it was "most likely a Russian-made missile", but there was no concrete evidence of who fired it, and the incident was a one-off.

[YUPPIE]

Funny how not so long ago u said u were not a pro Russians

no, but Ukraine should never lie when it comes to what the fuck they're doing. A few months ago, I recall they tried to car bomb that Putin advisor, said "no we didn't do it" only for Biden to say "yes you did..."

Also among other news recently, the UN concluded yes, Ukraine tortured POWs despite their vehement denial of having done so.

They lie on and off.

[Gabriel]

Reuters


Initial findings seem to be the above consensus, however word from Poland in the same article says the following:

"May not have come from Russia" could just as well mean that it came from Belarus, since vatniks have been firing their rockets from there the whole time.

[jonnysensible]

A few months ago, I recall they tried to car bomb that Putin advisor, said "no we didn't do it" only for Biden to say "yes you did..."

lmao dugin? you must be remembering wrong...

Ukraine needs more arms and more support. The threat of things like air defenses going awry exist because russia is firing 100 missiles at them (yday at least).

Until every invader is dead or back in Russia the threat remains.

Some maybe fun news : Pavel Gubarev – who longtime followers of Russia's war in Ukraine may remember as the former "people's mayor" of Donetsk – says his wife Ekaterina, who's now deputy head of Russia's occupation government in Kherson region, has disappeared without a trace

Wagner needs to be proscribed a terrorist group like ISIS or AQ.

[Iphie]

"May not have come from Russia" could just as well mean that it came from Belarus, since vatniks have been firing their rockets from there the whole time.

Yeah, but by stating that the country of origin is unknown it becomes easier to avoid escalation towards russia, basically it's an off ramp, and, as long as it doesn't happen again too soon, everybody will keep a cool head.

lmao dugin? you must be remembering wrong...

No, he actually is right there, Ukraine said it wasn't us, but American intelligence sources did say it was them or at least that's what was reported:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ys-2022-10-06/

[Saradain]

"May not have come from Russia" could just as well mean that it came from Belarus, since vatniks have been firing their rockets from there the whole time.

The range would probably fit that kind of a theory as well. I do not see any reason to condemn Ukraine if the final results are going to be "misfired/stray rocket, ukrainian-fired, russian-made counter-rocketry". Defending a nation from complete annihilation is a perfectly valid reason to, well, defend.

It is clear that russian aggression has the potential to cause civilian suffering even outside Ukraine. And it does, as seen with grain trade. And there's only Russia to blame for it.

[Gabriel]

Yeah, but by stating that the country of origin is unknown it becomes easier to avoid escalation towards russia, basically it's an off ramp, and, as long as it doesn't happen again too soon, everybody will keep a cool head.

This is very true, and I don't know how to feel about it.

[Iphie]

This is very true, and I don't know how to feel about it.

You know, and savor this moment, I agree with you. I have no appetite for a big war, much less one with big boomers, but I do feel this cannot be left unanswered. (and I suspect your stance isn't too far off either.)

I do think a full investigation is the least that should be done as an answer.

[DarkAmbient]

Well, seems my earlier post calling Russia's denial bullshit was premature. Zelensky immediately called the incident a significant escalation, and his foreign minister called suggestions that it was a Ukrainian misfire a conspiracy theory. Today everyone seems rather quiet about where exactly this missile was fired from (except some anonymous US officials who told AP news the missile was fired from Ukraine) which suggests to me that Zelensky has been politely advised to STFU about it. He will have to make an apology.

[Saradain]

Well, seems my earlier post calling Russia's denial bullshit was premature. Zelensky immediately called the incident a significant escalation, and his foreign minister called suggestions that it was a Ukrainian misfire a conspiracy theory. Today everyone seems rather quiet about where exactly this missile was fired from (except some anonymous US officials who told AP news the missile was fired from Ukraine) which suggests to me that Zelensky has been politely advised to STFU about it. He will have to make an apology.

And that is perfectly acceptable and fine thing to do. People make mistakes, especially under the stress of a war.

We all know, should the rocket be found to be fired by russians - that it would be denied forever by Russia no matter how hard the evidence would be.

It only proves Ukraine is far more mature and logical than Russia. Trolls gonna be trolling about it for sure, but for all the bluster and screeching - it doesn't resurrect their dead orcs or re-occupy liberated lands

[YUPPIE]

Zelenksy has fucked up big time and lost a colossal amount of goodwill with this. We don't even know how Poland will respond, yet.

[Saradain]

Zelenksy has fucked up big time and lost a lot of goodwill with this.

Only in your irrational line of thinking. Otherwise we really would be in a world war if world leaders acted like you would.

A leader of a country slipped on a banana peel while visiting Russia? ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT BY RUSSIA!

Yeah, no. Present proof of your claims, or stay silent.

[YUPPIE]

Only in your irrational line of thinking. Otherwise we really would be in a world war if world leaders acted like you would.

A leader of a country slipped on a banana peel while visiting Russia? ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT BY RUSSIA!

Yeah, no. Present proof of your claims, or stay silent.

It's like the other person said, he started this debacle off by trying to blame Russia for lying, which almost led to NATO vs Russia for real. He better grovel and apologize soon.

If you think groveling is too strong here, TWO INNOCENT PEOPLE DIED FOR NO REASON.

[Saradain]

It's like the other person said, he started this off by trying to blame Russia. He better grovel and apologize soon.

Nope, I present you:

Overreacting in the heat of war, defensive reaction on something that definitely should not have happened. While russian orcish army invades his homeland, it is quite easy to think they are responsible for everything bad happening.

Simply jumping to conclusions before proper investigation and hard data.

Ironically, you fit this definition as well, but you cannot see it yourself.

You can start the groveling and apology yourself for making your "arguments".

If you think groveling is too strong here, TWO INNOCENT PEOPLE DIED FOR NO REASON.

HOW MANY UKRAINIAN INNOCENTS HAVE DIED BY NOW? FOR NO REASON!

[DarkAmbient]

And that is perfectly acceptable and fine thing to do. People make mistakes, especially under the stress of a war.

We all know, should the rocket be found to be fired by russians - that it would be denied forever by Russia no matter how hard the evidence would be.

It only proves Ukraine is far more mature and logical than Russia. Trolls gonna be trolling about it for sure, but for all the bluster and screeching - it doesn't resurrect their dead orcs or re-occupy liberated lands

Yes. But Ukraine's initial reaction was unfortunate. It made them look opportunistic. In the end nothing needs to happen over this except an admission and also an apology to Poland. I wonder if that will be done privately to deny Russia the propaganda coup. The deaths are unfortunate, but they wouldn't have happened if Ukraine didn't need to defend itself from Russian aggression. A reminder that in war the truth is not always what it seems.

Andrzej Duda and Jens Stoltenberg have both said this was a Ukrainian air defence failure.

[Gabriel]

I'm going to have aneurysm reading YUPPIE's posts.