Russian invasion of Ukraine

[YUPPIE]

The US has responded to Russia's threats of "destroying" the US and its allies over the tanks and the implications of escalation.

Despite the disreputable outlet, what we know is the US supposedly told Russia that shit is repetitive now.

[Edge-]

If it's propaganda, I'd imagine it's by Ukraine. Can't really think what Russia would gain from showing pictures of children and tell how they died in military duty.

Yeah, I say propaganda neutrally. Both are heavily engaged in it, as any wartime country is.

It's like during the earlier months in the war when the internet was plastered with impossibly good looking people (usually young women) with impossibly pristine gear/uniforms who were apparently serving. Some of them actually did serve! But most of them were either models looking for clout because war is a good way to market your brand, or propaganda shit.

[YUPPIE]

- USA would have to justify loss of american lives to its population

In the last page and many before, you people have claimed the US (and NATO by extension) should get involved in Ukraine - were it not for the nuclear threat - because they would "stomp" Russia into the ground without incurring any losses in conventional warfare. The amount of times that battle in Syria was cited for example.

But now you imply it wouldn't be that one-sided

[DarkTZeratul]

But now you imply it wouldn't be that one-sided

Even a one-sided fight would still result in some number of American casualties, and in the mind of the public there's an enormous gap between "none" and "some."

[Xyonai]

In the last page and many before, you people have claimed the US (and NATO by extension) should get involved in Ukraine - were it not for the nuclear threat - because they would "stomp" Russia into the ground without incurring any losses in conventional warfare. The amount of times that battle in Syria was cited for example.

But now you imply it wouldn't be that one-sided

Ten guys with Bats vs Ten Pit Bulls still heavily favors the guys with bats, but there's a not insignificant chance that one of the guys will bet mauled by the pit bulls before they're finished.

[YUPPIE]

Yeah, you people have your reasonings, but I still think the US and NATO will never get involved; and also, for more legitimate reasons. So don't get your hopes up of them resolving this crisis in any meaningful capacity than sending supplies.

[Xyonai]

We're not disagreeing on that point???????

We're disagreeing with the point you're making about the US/NATO being too afraid of Russia to do anything when the reality is a whole web of contrived geopolitical nonsense that's hard to distill into easy-to-digest soundbites and snappy forum replies.

[YUPPIE]

We're disagreeing with the point you're making about the US/NATO being too afraid of Russia to do anything

The offense I took was people here now saying MAD and the nuke threat aren't actually real on Russia's part, that also being a bluff. I take it as an offense because then, hypothetically, it means Russia has absolutely no leverage and nothing should be stopping the West from getting in Ukraine right now; minimal casualties means fuck all in the scope of things.

So that paints the narrative we are just watching them do all this evil shit but it's not really our personal business to stop them directly - yet we can at any point, any time.

[Xyonai]

The offense I took was people here now saying MAD and the nuke threat aren't actually real on Russia's part, that also being a bluff. I take it as an offense because then, hypothetically, it means Russia has absolutely no leverage and nothing should be stopping the West from getting in Ukraine right now; minimal casualties means fuck all in the scope of things.

So that paints the narrative we are just watching them do all this evil shit but it's not really our personal business to stop them directly - yet we can at any point, any time.

No one wants to engage in a game of nuclear chicken with a nation that's shown its willingness to murder non-combatants wholesale. In the likely scenario their nuclear arsenal is dogshit, it just takes one missile getting through to kill millions; so even if we're able to push Russia's shit back to the stone age that's damage already done.

Keeping Russia contained to Ukraine keeps them from lashing out and being unpredictable.

[YUPPIE]

No one wants to engage in a game of nuclear chicken with a nation that's shown its willingness to murder non-combatants wholesale. In the likely scenario their nuclear arsenal is dogshit, it just takes one missile getting through to kill millions; so even if we're able to push Russia's shit back to the stone age that's damage already done.

Keeping Russia contained to Ukraine keeps them from lashing out and being unpredictable.

so the threat is real. And that's all that needs to be said for this topic.

Anyway since the convo seems muddled, I was mainly mad at people saying the US should interfere in Ukraine because Russia poses no genuine threat; that the only reason we don't is purely based on political reasons.

[Edge-]

so the threat is real. And that's all that needs to be said for this topic.

Anyway since the convo seems muddled, I was mainly mad at people saying the US should interfere in Ukraine because Russia poses no genuine threat; that the only reason we don't is purely based on political reasons.

Isn't that what sending Ukraine billions in aide, equipment, and training is?

[YUPPIE]

Isn't that what sending Ukraine billions in aide, equipment, and training is?

only to a degree, if only because what we also send is just (relatively) outdated crap so the training is more meaningful than that. But there will never be US boots on Ukraine soil. That is true interference.

[Edge-]

only to a degree, if only because what we also send is just (relatively) outdated crap so the training is more meaningful than that. But there will never be US boots on Ukraine soil. That is true interference.

That's an arbitrary personal definition.

[YUPPIE]

That's an arbitrary personal definition.

I think I should have illustrated an important point of why Russia isn't going MAD or all-out destruction over the West sending aid and training:

It's because, for much aid Ukraine receives that way, it hasn't done much to deter the Russian advance and war machine. Sure the Russians are dying on masse like locusts by the day, but it's not stopping them from raining missiles down on Ukraine every week and slowly inching towards the finish line per 100 deaths or 1000 deaths like we see in Soledar.

Now if US troops alone were to interfere, that'd change very quickly to Russians being annihilated on all fronts with no inching of any advance at all. Hence, "true" interference in that regard.

[Milchshake]

Recall, the Zelensky onthe red carpet was also considered a bridge to far.

[jonnysensible]

nothing should be stopping the West from getting in Ukraine right now; .

I agree we should go in right now and stop fucking around.

[Edge-]

I think I should have illustrated an important point of why Russia isn't going MAD or all-out destruction over the West sending aid and training:

It's because, for much aid Ukraine receives that way, it hasn't done much to deter the Russian advance and war machine. Sure they're dying on masse like locusts by the day, but it's not stopping them from raining missiles down on Ukraine and slowly inching towards the finish line per 100 deaths.

Now if US troops alone were to interfere, that'd change very quickly to Russians being annihilated on all fronts with no inching of any advance at all. Hence, "true" interference in that regard.

Probably because MAD is still the dumbest concept ever and they can't otherwise achieve all-out destruction, I'd guess.

Because most of what they're doing is all bluster since they're struggling to wage war against their smaller next-door neighbor, much less a well armed, trained, and supplied modern fighting force.

It hasn't done much to deter the Russian advance? Didn't Ukraine take back a shitload of territory and largely halt additional advances already? Isn't Russia's "war machine" frequently breaking down and/or running out of fuel? And bodies to throw into the meat grinder? Aren't the vast majority of their missiles being intercepted, with more capable air-defense systems still coming?

I'm not sure what any of this matters short of you apparently enjoying being in a perpetually panicked state.

[YUPPIE]

It hasn't done much to deter the Russian advance?

not really. They still keep coming back/are still going, after all, with newfound missiles and troops.

Reminder of when Putin recently boasted he has at least 500k more troops to send out when our estimates are 180k casualties as the Russian side is concerned after over a year.

[Edge-]

not really. They still keep coming back/are still going, after all, with newfound missiles and troops.

How much forward progress have they made in retaking territory they lost late last year? Or new territory?

Reminder of when Putin recently boasted he has at least 500k more troops to send out when our estimates are 180k casualties as the Russian side is concerned after over a year.

You really need to stop focusing on the bluster and rhetoric, it's terrible for your blood pressure.

[YUPPIE]

Or new territory?

good timing because I've been observing progress on a brutal ongoing battle ATM

Vugledar is about 150 kilometres (93 miles) south of Bakhmut, where Russian troops have been fighting for control longer than for any other city since the invasion.

Ukraine said today its troops were locked in "fierce" fighting with Russian troops for control of the town of Vugledar in the region of Donetsk on the eastern front.

Russian-backed forces claimed they were "waiting for good news" from the town, which had a pre-invasion population of around 15,000 people, but Kyiv said Moscow's troops were misrepresenting any gains.

"There is fierce combat there," Ukrainian military spokesman Sergiy Cherevaty told local media.

"For many months, the military of the Russian Federation... has been trying to achieve significant success there," he said.