Awakenings is the real deal (SPOILERS)

[Teriz]

This is not simply about specific abilities and items being exactly the same. It is about significant thematic overlap that limits the design of both things if you have them both in the game. Talking about WC3 is asinine, as the Tinker hero has a very tiny handful of abilities. Expanding on that kit will REQUIRE stepping into the things engineering has done, like robot pets, net throwers, grenades, rockets, bombs, rays, clock devices, gravity wells, batteries, and on and on and on.

The theme of the engineering profession is to build tech-based items for sale and profit. The theme of a Tinker class would be to use tech-based abilities to accomplish class roles (tanking/DPS/Heal) or completing solo content.

Even thematically there is no overlap. It would be like comparing an Enchanter and a Mage. Both use magic, but they use magic for very different purposes.

You are just being dishonest and intentionally obtuse because of your little pet issue here. This is just as silly as saying "Let's add a Demonology profession and it won't conflict with warlocks at all!"

If the purpose of the demonology profession resembled the engineering profession and it created robes and bred demonic pets for Warlocks to use in pet battles, then yeah it wouldn't conflict with Warlocks at all.

We should also mention that professions don't conflict with classes because a player who roll both a class and a profession on the same character.

[NineSpine]

The theme of the engineering profession is to build tech-based items for sale and profit. The theme of a Tinker class would be to use tech-based abilities to accomplish class roles (tanking/DPS/Heal) or completing solo content.

Even thematically there is no overlap. It would be like comparing an Enchanter and a Mage. Both use magic, but they use magic for very different purposes.



If the purpose of the demonology profession resembled the engineering profession and it created robes and bred demonic pets for Warlocks to use in pet battles, then yeah it wouldn't conflict with Warlocks at all.

We should also mention that professions don't conflict with classes because a player who roll both a class and a profession on the same character.

Right here is where you failed: "The theme of the engineering profession is to build tech-based items for sale and profit. The theme of a Tinker class would be to use tech-based abilities to accomplish class roles (tanking/DPS/Heal) or completing solo content. "

"to accomplish class roles (tanking/DPS/Heal)"

See how you had to immediately shift from thematics to gameplay details in order to make your point that the themes are different? Accomplishing class roles isn't a theme. You can't even describe the themes without resorting to "Ones a class and ones a profession!" because you know just as well as I do that the theme of a tinker IS ENGINEERING.

[Teriz]

Right here is where you failed: "The theme of the engineering profession is to build tech-based items for sale and profit. The theme of a Tinker class would be to use tech-based abilities to accomplish class roles (tanking/DPS/Heal) or completing solo content. "

"to accomplish class roles (tanking/DPS/Heal)"

See how you had to immediately shift from thematics to gameplay details in order to make your point that the themes are different? Accomplishing class roles isn't a theme. You can't even describe the themes without resorting to "Ones a class and ones a profession!" because you know just as well as I do that the theme of a tinker IS ENGINEERING.

Ah semantics...... You'll note in my post I said "The engineering profession", not engineering in of itself. Engineering in RPGs is a rather broad thematic, and just because a profession uses it for certain ends doesn't mean that a class using the thematic would conflict with it. Again, both are doing two completely different things, no different than Enchanting and the Mage class.

[NineSpine]

Ah semantics...... You'll note in my post I said "The engineering profession", not engineering in of itself. Engineering in RPGs is a rather broad thematic, and just because a profession uses it for certain ends doesn't mean that a class using the thematic would conflict with it. Again, both are doing two completely different things, no different than Enchanting and the Mage class.

Mages don't enchant items. That's what enchanters do. Tinkers and engineers both use mechanical inventions. The theme is identical. That's why when you are asked about the themes you immediately pivot to "ONES A PROFESSION AND ONES A CLASS". It's as silly as saying that a book and a movie can't overlap because a movie isn't a book.

[Asrialol]

Hey, with Danuser "writing", it wouldn't surprise me if he tried something like that. He knows nothing about Warcraft. He retconned all the Warcraft out of WOW, and made it his own personal fanfic. With the pulled-out-of-his-ass retcon generic Walmart Thanos, with no story beyond "tall bald man with nipples is evil", but "oh he goes back to Warcraft 3". Bullshit.

Endwalker just made RP walking up a staircase 100,000x more impactful than anything Danuser has ever dreamed of (no spoilers, but anyone who has gotten to that point will know what I'm talking about).

Why are you here crying about Danuser, I wonder. He made shit lore even more shit, sure. Bug deal.

Also the stairs.. rofl, sure. Let's not go to that point where we think FFXIV lore is good.

[Albertillo]

Mages don't enchant items. That's what enchanters do. Tinkers and engineers both use mechanical inventions. The theme is identical. That's why when you are asked about the themes you immediately pivot to "ONES A PROFESSION AND ONES A CLASS". It's as silly as saying that a book and a movie can't overlap because a movie isn't a book.

I don't like the tinker thing but I don't think you have a point there.

It's true that concept-wise it's the same (using mechanical inventions) but the same can be said about mage and enchanting (using magic to do things). But I don't think there's an overlap between them in any of the cases.

The mage uses magic to deal damage with fire, frost and arcane skills whereas enchanting uses magic to turn objects into magical powder. You create items, not damage. For tinkers it would be the same, engineering has the same concept, yes, but engineering only makes pets and items. There are items which deal damage too, but it's not every item in the profession and they have also CD, you cannot depend on them. Tinker could be tank, healer, dps or whatever Blizzard wants and use mechanical inventions to accomplish that. They could have pets? Yes, but pets that deal damage, not the ones engineering creates.

I don't see the problem in that part. It's not like a movie and a book, they're completely different things. They don't even tell the same story.

[Teriz]

Mages don't enchant items. That's what enchanters do.

Warlocks enchant items in classic and TBC with firestones and spellstones. Shaman imbue their weapons with elemental power. Death Knights enchant their weapons with runes.

Tinkers and engineers both use mechanical inventions. The theme is identical. That's why when you are asked about the themes you immediately pivot to "ONES A PROFESSION AND ONES A CLASS". It's as silly as saying that a book and a movie can't overlap because a movie isn't a book.

Well because just because the book and movie are the same genre doesn’t mean they’re the same or that they overlap. For example, Star Wars isn’t like 10,000 leagues under the Sea despite both being science fiction.

[NineSpine]

Warlocks enchant items in classic and TBC with firestones and spellstones. Shaman imbue their weapons with elemental power. Death Knights enchant their weapons with runes.

Well because just because the book and movie are the same genre doesn’t mean they’re the same or that they overlap. For example, Star Wars isn’t like 10,000 leagues under the Sea despite both being science fiction.

You are confusing "Some overlap" with "Engineering is the profession version of the class". There isn't even just overlap. They are the same thing. It's the same set of ideas implemented as a profession or a class.

[Teriz]

You are confusing "Some overlap" with "Engineering is the profession version of the class". There isn't even just overlap. They are the same thing. It's the same set of ideas implemented as a profession or a class.

Interesting that you'd call a class doing exactly the same thing as a profession "some overlap", while a class that does nothing that the profession does to be doing "the same thing" as said profession.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

How did this become a tinker thread?

[deenman]

How did this become a tinker thread?

about 89.9% of threads about anything wow related get hijacked by tinker propagandists

[Teriz]

about 89.9% of threads about anything wow related get hijacked by tinker propagandists

So you're saying that 90% of threads in general discussions and the WoW forum are currently talking about the Tinker?

[LordVargK]

about 89.9% of threads about anything wow related get hijacked by tinker propagandists

It's pretty much Teriz all the time. I swear, the guy wakes up and writes an essay about tinkers each day.

[deenman]

So you're saying that 90% of threads in general discussions and the WoW forum are currently talking about the Tinker?

is that really what i said?:>

[Aucald]

This thread has been derailed quite far enough into a class-speculation thing (e.g. Tinkers and other hero class speculation), and that's not what it's really about. Let's get back to the actual thread topic and drop this rolling back-and-forth about classes.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I mean this Leak is very fake so like, does it matter if it gets derailed?

[Redshirtz]

The first time I read this: fake.

Now when dragons are poppin: oh no its real.

Ah well atleast we finally get tauren rogues.

[HateTrain]

I mean this Leak is very fake so like, does it matter if it gets derailed?

Just because you're in someone's crappy house doesn't mean it's ok to take a shit in the middle of the floor.

[Gloriandus]

Say it's true. In Blizzard fashion we would choose one of the dragonflights (covenants, cough) and the entire expansion is doing whatever but under the banner of the MEANINGFUL CHOICE of our dragonflight. They would assure us it's not the same as covenants at all, although it totally is. "WE HEAR YOU" and they don't listen. "11.0 will fix everything guys!"

[cuafpr]

Say it's true. In Blizzard fashion we would choose one of the dragonflights (covenants, cough) and the entire expansion is doing whatever but under the banner of the MEANINGFUL CHOICE of our dragonflight. They would assure us it's not the same as covenants at all, although it totally is. "WE HEAR YOU" and they don't listen. "11.0 will fix everything guys!"

even if this leak isn't true, I can see this happening dragon flights equal convents 2.0