Patch 9.2 PTR - Build 41360: Sylvanas Cinematic

[sweatshopkids]

thats the problem. you are simply not a multibillion dollar company, selling cheap shit as gold, by paying some alcoholics for 10+ years, that rehashing old shit again and again and again, to save investments, and let marketing and arts department do the rest.

dont ask me why and how this works so far. i dont get it too. i assume its simply based on the fact, that there are stupid enough ppls out there, paying for stinky messes packed in gold paper. idk…

But I want to put agricultural attachments on my car

[Claymore]

You know what's a shame?

VISUALLY, the cinematic looks top-notch, as is the voice-acting itself.

But jesus-effing-christ, people were JOKING about this kind of story, back before BFA even launched. How are Blizzard's writers so completely out-of-touch with both reality and the community itself, they couldn't see how laughable the story is becoming? It's so fucking bad. Even the bit of Uther going "her wounds run SO MUCH DEEPER than mine", like suddenly we're supposed to feel so bad for her. And it completely undermines her as a character.

Let's just be real; Sylvanas was full-on Bitch-mode from the very instant she shows up in WC3. Sure, she has a reason to hate her enemy, but she was ***NEVER*** once shown to be emotional or compassionate, even in life. If anything, GOOD writing would have been to slowly make Sylvanas more vulnerable, that in death, she struggles with her emotions than in life (which they vaguely touched on at certain points, before "oh she's evil, she wants to kill Vareesa's kids and rez her as undead too").

Maybe losing Nathanos triggered a change. Maybe Vareesa gets involved, dies, and it makes Alleria and Sylvanas realize how important family truly is. SOMETHING to make her GROW as a character. But this new Blizzard doesn't want to do that, because doing so would imply she is "flawed" somehow.

Like I said, it's just a shame. Those character models look fucking fantastic in the cinematics this expansion (well, Anduin's face still seems a bit too "puffy" or something), and again, you can't really knock the voice-acting.

Honestly, the only way I see turning this thing around is maybe revealing the Jailer actually IS stupid, or maybe even mentally-challenged (I'm actually being serious; just follow me for a second), that over the countless years of his imprisonment, he longed for ANY sort of contact. The "Void Lords" reach out to Sire Denathrius, bribing him in some capacity, and HE is the one who orchestrates everything. He convinces the Jailer to be his friend, and to follow a very specific set of plans -- right down to allowing the "heroes" to live after Sanctum -- which is why we still don't know Zovaal's motivations: because he DOESN'T have any, he was just following the instruction of his "friend", Sire Denathrius. Maybe Denathrius implanted the thoughts in his brain without Zovaal even being aware, that he's literally just a puppet whose imprisonment left his mind weak and easily manipulated.

[TheRevenantHero]

I don't see how anyone can fucking defend this garbage. I've read better fanfictions than this. This is clearly just shit they're pulling out of their ass last second. None of it is consistent or makes sense. Sylvanas has been free since Arthas was defeated. This is just Danuser forcing the lore team to give Sylvanas a redemption arc because he's a creepy piece of shit. Holy shit there is absolutely no hope for this game from a storytelling standpoint.

[Kyphael]

No point in echoing how bad this writing is, so I'll just say this; the exact same thing could be said of Arthas, but the only difference is, Arthas is an universally more popular character to redeem to use the bad redemption arc on. They don't even know how to use their bad writing on the worthwhile characters.

[Niwes]

Pre BfA:

Blizz: „Lets go fully bad bitch mode with Sylvanas. Hot bad babe!“
Danuser: Yeah, thats a great unexpected plot twist.

Mid SL:

Blizz: „No clue what to do now. No ideas. Just lets redeem her quickly. Otherwise we need to invent good, deep, new characters. This means we have to work! Lets do what we always do: Recycle it! Milk it! Just redeem her.“
Danuser: Yeah, thats a great unexpected plot twist.



Know what? I slowly start to asume this guy really thinks that way. He is doing kids stories for 10 year olds, while his brain being a 5 year old kid going like „uuuhm, goood idea!“. lol. i really start to believe this guy is really that dumb.

i swear, when he says „what a cool plot twist“ about the latest Sylvunus story, he really believes what he says. And i swear, when he says „nobody expected this“ i am 100% sure he really believes that nobody expected this.

First i thought he is an alcoholic. Then i thought he is just a money bitch and do what money bitches do for da moneyz. But slowly i start believing that guy is REALLY that stupid and lives in such a small bubble, he really believes that shit.

Slowly this getting a bit of funny to see what Danuser does next. I start liking him, for his stupidity. Its like watching a TV series solely for being curious what stupidity the main character does next.

Danuser for President!

[bagina]

The writers want to have cake and eat it too. Can't think of a more blatant example of that than literally splitting a character in two. And so, we have a guilty Sylvanas and an innocent Sylvanas. She can be guilty or she can be innocent, depending on where the writers want to go next. She's both guilty and innocent at the same time! Brilliant. They want to please the accusers and also the apologists. And we know that when you try to please everyone, you please no one.

[mysticx]

No point in echoing how bad this writing is, so I'll just say this; the exact same thing could be said of Arthas, but the only difference is, Arthas is an universally more popular character to redeem to use the bad redemption arc on. They don't even know how to use their bad writing on the worthwhile characters.

With Arthas we saw the slide towards evil over the course of WC3's Alliance campaign, and he had a full story arc from WC3 through WotLK, and it made as much sense as can be expected from a fantasy game, Sylvanas had a decent story too, but then this big "It was the jailer (Also Dreadlords who aren't actually demons) all along"-retcon put a bomb under everything, Sylvanas is triggered by the word "Serve", and oh look, it wasn't Sylvanas after all!

It's all just so convoluted, and like an annoying TV-show villain, her story is dragged out for too long, the stakes get ever higher to keep tension on, and too many characters get dumbed down just to keep her around (Like the facepalm-fest that was the siege of Undercity, or Elune noping out on Tyrande, because we need Sylvanas for the next patch), and the prevailing sentiment isn't so much that Sylvanas is a bad character (Although recent writing didn't do her any favours), but we're just tired of seeing her all the time...

[Strawberry]

I liked the Banshee Queen.
What is this new princess bullshit?

[Shadowlog]

Unpopular opinion - I like her story.

[Vomax]

There are plenty of people who like Sylvanas and the story.

The Jailer tore away the Ranger General Sylvanas and left a husk known as the Banshee Queen. Now that she was given back her soul by the Jailer, Ranger General Sylvanas now sees what Banshee Queen Sylvanas has done. As for the Bansee Queen, the conflict shows that she was not 100% pure evil. This is better than what I expected

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Everyone who has worked on the game has had real skin in the game and dedication to it. And those people you mention created the game with Blizzard resources. Basically this boils down to People who made the game I liked are good. Those that made a game I don't are evil and destroying it.

They WERE blizzard. The heart and soul of it. The people that crafted the story and the company. Activision gave them almost complete autonomy even when they merged. It wasnt until recently that they starting dipping their di*ks into the company.

Blizzard is Morheime, Adham, Metzen, Diddier, Pearce, and a lot of others company. THEY built it. As well as the characters. Blizzard and warcraft is theirs, just like Star Wars is Georges and the originals. Not Disneys. Its Disneys on paper.

The game and company were at its highest points and best time when these guys were there. But that slowly erroded. And now were left with Daloser.

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Then why are you here, posting countless replies on this forumn?

If you are so reasonable, why do you give such a shit about imaginary-dragon-slaying-game, forums?

Im a huge fanboy. I admit that. I own that. I dont care if its imaginary. Its what im passionate about.

If you dont care then leave. Otherwise, go gate keep some other forumns

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Yes, I agree she's taken an odd turn and there's a lack of explanation. That's fair and a weak point in the story.

Where I disagree is that she's a puppet. She's a puppet in the sense she's been manipulated and lied to. But she still had free will, as shown by when she shot an arrow at the Jailer. Anduin, by contrast, has been dominated. He is forced to against his will. Sylvanas freely choice to act this way. I think the story is just weak in explaining to us why she sided with the Jailer.

Extremely fair point and i like this.

The problem then also arises, that Sylvannas has always been extremely cunning. One step ahead of the game. Yet every time we see her she's always outdone and outsmarted. Betrayed by Putress, Betrayed by Godfrey, Failed to kill Genn due to his son, Thwarted by Genn in Stormheim, Raged over a eye scratch from Saurfang.

People have expected that all these "setbacks" were part of some grander plan as hinted at by the devs. In the end? No she really is that stupid and incompetent. No big plan, just a puppet who usually fails.

[Ersula]

There are plenty of people who like Sylvanas and the story.

Lies. I haven't met a single one. Maybe someone who has no strong feelings about the story or Sylvanas giving a polite "I liked it..." when asked, but they don't have strong feelings either way.

Everyone who has worked on the game has had real skin in the game and dedication to it. And those people you mention created the game with Blizzard resources. Basically this boils down to People who made the game I liked are good. Those that made a game I don't are evil and destroying it.

Good to see you can boil down all legit criticism to a simple strawman. The story being bad is subjective, the game being bad is subjective, except, oops, the biggest subscription loss in the history of the game isn't subjective. Telling yourself the game is still solid is not just copium anymore; it's a complete denial of reality.

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Unpopular opinion - I like her story.

3 post andy

[luciano]

Lies. I haven't met a single one. Maybe someone who has no strong feelings about the story or Sylvanas giving a polite "I liked it..." when asked, but they don't have strong feelings either way.

Good to see you can boil down all legit criticism to a simple strawman. The story being bad is subjective, the game being bad is subjective, except, oops, the biggest subscription loss in the history of the game isn't subjective. Telling yourself the game is still solid is not just copium anymore; it's a complete denial of reality.

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3 post andy

I've played since forever and have had an account here more than a decade...and I like the Sylvanas story planned for 9.2.

I like that she's been given this awful task of having to face the horrible things she did. I like that she's aware of her crimes, knows that she's going to have to pay in some way for these crimes, and -- since she's already seen Hell before -- she kind of knows what she deserves and how awful that is.

I like that there are like a dozen different places they can take the story post-9.2. There are lots of ways for someone who does awful, awful things to pay a price.

So yeah, stop your gatekeeping please. You aren't the sole arbiter of what is and isn't good stuff. It's just your opinion, just as this is just my opinion. Since they're just opinions, neither of us is or can be "wrong."

[Adamas102]

No point in echoing how bad this writing is, so I'll just say this; the exact same thing could be said of Arthas, but the only difference is, Arthas is an universally more popular character to redeem to use the bad redemption arc on. They don't even know how to use their bad writing on the worthwhile characters.

Well that’s bullshit.

There is no “good” Arthas given how the events of WC3 went. He had a very clear arc that took him from hero prince to vengeance driven extremist before he even picked up the blade. Arthas getting some sort of redemption arc would be shit tier writing as well since it would have to rely on the same character arc retcon they’re using on Sylvanas, picking a point where the arc happened and saying “ok now you’re two different characters”.

[Barrylapses]

This got me pretty hyped for the ending chapter of the 20 year old wc3 saga

[Vakir]

This got me pretty hyped for the ending chapter of the 20 year old wc3 saga

Putting "Barry" in the name of your less-than-a-month old account really showed your hand a bit too much.

[Adamas102]

So yeah, stop your gatekeeping please. You aren't the sole arbiter of what is and isn't good stuff. It's just your opinion, just as this is just my opinion. Since they're just opinions, neither of us is or can be "wrong."

Opinions can definitely be wrong. And yes, writing, character arcs, and story structure can be objectively analyzed. There are plenty of recognizable factors that make the difference between good and bad story telling. You’re certainly welcome to like whatever you want, but your enjoyment doesn’t shield the subject from objective criticism.

[Relapses]

Putting "Barry" in the name of your less-than-a-month old account really showed your hand a bit too much.

That's not actually me. I guess I should be flattered I have a fan.

[Vakir]

That's not actually me. I guess I should be flattered I have a fan.

"Barry" is a lazy, new 4chan meme thing surrounding WoW and the other game. Unless your name is somehow Barry and are the actual person they're referring to. In which case, that's fucking hilarious. I didn't think my opinion could go lower. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Barrylapses]

Can you stop your indulgence in off topic and talk about wow and the cinematic please

[Vakir]

Can you stop your indulgence in off topic and talk about wow and the cinematic please

OK. The cinematic's writing is terrible, but you already knew that.

Have fun with the burner, I guess.