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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    That's how the original was as well.
    I tend to disagree. This one feels...different? I don't recall using a shield trinket and fighting the worm boss for 14 fucking minutes killing the worm then tunneling the tauren ignoring the three dozen worms i had spawned desperately playing " I spy the stun totem" in legion.

    From what I have done and what I have seen from my mythic guild imp mother and the tank challenges are easy. Twins, are decent. With closing the eyes and fel totem running the gambit based on class

  2. #62
    This whining is so funny to me. And the OP hits the nail on the head, the argument of "let us overgear this" is really the only argument. There was significant imbalance between specs during Legion as well, yet people were fine with it because they could eventually overgear it. Like guardian was tuned to have to do a lot more than the other tank specs, and balance could breeze through what spriest and afflock had to struggle through. Almost all the dps specs that had to do the imp fight had much less to do than the the dps specs like arcane and demo. And the list goes on.

    It isn't until Blizzard standardizes the gear and makes it actually about skill that people start complaining. Imagine if they had put the artifact skins back in the game. The forums would be on fire lol.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Log Cabin View Post
    I tend to disagree. This one feels...different? I don't recall using a shield trinket and fighting the worm boss for 14 fucking minutes killing the worm then tunneling the tauren ignoring the three dozen worms i had spawned desperately playing " I spy the stun totem" in legion.

    From what I have done and what I have seen from my mythic guild imp mother and the tank challenges are easy. Twins, are decent. With closing the eyes and fel totem running the gambit based on class
    From what I've been seeing the Totem / Worm one seems to be off. I know in Legion it was pretty much faceroll for any class. I remember that one taking less than 10 attempts per class and each wipe was because I made some stupid mistake in it. It was by far the easiest one. I even took my roomates toons in there who were severely undergeared and was able to stomp through it without much trouble.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Wrong.

    Video games can improve hand eye coord and help improve social interactions that serve you well in life. Playing with friends can also help with mental health.
    Oh yeah cuz the average video gamer here is the epitome of being very social and outgoing I'm sure LMAO

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    This whining is so funny to me. And the OP hits the nail on the head, the argument of "let us overgear this" is really the only argument. There was significant imbalance between specs during Legion as well, yet people were fine with it because they could eventually overgear it. Like guardian was tuned to have to do a lot more than the other tank specs, and balance could breeze through what spriest and afflock had to struggle through. Almost all the dps specs that had to do the imp fight had much less to do than the the dps specs like arcane and demo. And the list goes on.

    It isn't until Blizzard standardizes the gear and makes it actually about skill that people start complaining. Imagine if they had put the artifact skins back in the game. The forums would be on fire lol.
    Gear was irrelevant in Legion for holy priests with the NPCs, when you progressed further it just became harder if you "overgeared it" because you had to balance your hp and having good gear made that harder. The NPCs in there didn't and don't scale with your gear, they were the ones that were in danger of dying. They still are the ones you have to watch out but the mages are buffed and will slaughter them compared to in Legion. 3-4 stacks, no problem in Legion. 2 stacks is a big problem now.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    No, its not. Mage tower suffers from 1 issue, and 1 issue alone. It is Highly imbalanced in terms of difficulty depending on your class + tool kit. Some classes have a harder time while others don't. For example, the Melee challenge is hard for any melee that needs tiime to ramp up, where as any that have bleeds or heavy aoe will shine. It shows that not all classes are created equal and that they excel in different aspects.

    Now, if you want a challenge that Shows what you think, green fire for warlock when it was released. It actually took skill. Knowing your class and its functions. Even cds that don't often get utilized got used there. All because it was tuned for 1 specific class and their tool kits. So people who thought they were good suddenly found out that they were not good in the slightest.
    Yes, Green Fire was great. I was doing it on an alt and thus had to overgear it a bit to compensate for lack of training with the class, but still, I did it. I did it even twice, because on my first successful attempt I got a DC and had to do all over again.

    Anyway, on Frost Mage it feels more or less like it was back in Legion when I had not the gear of the last patch available. Except that they CHANGED the encounter so you cannot kill Karam first like it was back then. Fuckers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    All of the encounters have been cleared.

    Some are harder than others of course (just like it was in Legion), but clearly they can be done with the available gear.

    And with no method of “gearing up” due to timewalking the challenge is very binary and awful for most of the player base.

    Exactly the reason why minimal/no gear gaps between raids is a terrible idea.

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    If it doesn’t have to do with player skill then why have some people been able to clear it while others can’t?
    Except that like in Timewalking, you can cheese it a bit with optimised gear with many sockets in it. Meh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TickTickTick View Post
    of specs being balanced around the borrowed power being a super bad idea. Without the legendaries / covenants / soulbinds some specs are barebones boring or straight up unplayable garbage. And it's not a positive argument behind the borrowed powers, it just shows how much Blizzard ruined the base of the specs to fit the borrowed powers in.

    A reminder that the Mage Tower in Legion allowed you to use your artifact weapon and legendary item. Now some specs just feel incomplete.
    Also this. If they at least could let us use our Legion Legendaries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Log Cabin View Post
    A lot of players clearing them are outgearing it via gems. I just don't really want a timewalking set to be a thing for content if I am being honest.
    Exactly. The mage in the TW discord who did all 3 challenges yesterday had a highly optimised TW gear, better optimised than mine. I only did frost and currently did not finish by a small margin, though I was very close a handful of times. Having a child at home which can interfere at any time is bad, and sleep deprivation for about 2 years now is also bad for concentration. -.-

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    Mage Tower is a great example…
    ... of incapability.

    If they wanted it to be a proper challenge they should have applied some sort of templates or disable trinkets, enchants and gems.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    …of why players who want a minimal/no gear gap between raid difficulties should never be listened to.

    A lot of people like to think if things were more equalized they would do better, but that isn’t the case at all.
    The problem with mage tower is that it was designed for classes in Legion, the borrowed power systems at the time, and the class toolkits (And it was balanced to be tough then), we are now 2 expansions later, and the classes have changed quite a lot, which in many cases leads to that delicate balance between "Difficult" and "Doable" being lost.

    Some specs came out of it ahead, and they're bragging about how easy it is, while other specs are facing a far steeper challenge, and they're calling bullshit on this whole mess.

  9. #69
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    Such a baity post.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Army Dreamer View Post
    of the waste of time.
    my thoughts exactly

  11. #71
    People that want solo challenge usually mean solo & easy way to get something.

    Hard isn't what they mean when they say they want challenging content, even if they say they want it.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    This whining is so funny to me. And the OP hits the nail on the head, the argument of "let us overgear this" is really the only argument. There was significant imbalance between specs during Legion as well, yet people were fine with it because they could eventually overgear it. Like guardian was tuned to have to do a lot more than the other tank specs, and balance could breeze through what spriest and afflock had to struggle through. Almost all the dps specs that had to do the imp fight had much less to do than the the dps specs like arcane and demo. And the list goes on.

    It isn't until Blizzard standardizes the gear and makes it actually about skill that people start complaining. Imagine if they had put the artifact skins back in the game. The forums would be on fire lol.
    Uhhh you did the Shadow Priest one wrong then. You run Surrender to Madness, and it was doable in less than 2 min. Shadow was one of the easiest ones.


  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Log Cabin View Post
    I tend to disagree. This one feels...different? I don't recall using a shield trinket and fighting the worm boss for 14 fucking minutes killing the worm then tunneling the tauren ignoring the three dozen worms i had spawned desperately playing " I spy the stun totem" in legion.

    From what I have done and what I have seen from my mythic guild imp mother and the tank challenges are easy. Twins, are decent. With closing the eyes and fel totem running the gambit based on class
    I feel the sustain of my class is different than what it was in legion as well.
    With destro ( same challenge ) I didnt have to bother with interrupting the worms aoe silence.
    Right now if with every minor mistake let it be a rock during EQ / stun from underground worm phase / aoe interrupt not cancelled my hp just gradually goes down without much way of recovering. Fear and drain life is rolling a dice because apart from it breaking really fast, you end up risking abilites being cast simultaniously and or stun totems spawning in china / out of line of sight.

    TLDR sustain feels off destro lock , Im okay with the big nuke not being interrupted killing me, not every other minor thing leading to a slow but almost guaranteed death.

    Best attempt for me was caster dead, worm at 40k hp left. I entered the phase with less than half hp and the damage ramped up quite quickly that even coil on CD had no effect, drain life healing isnt sufficient either already at early stages there.

    Edit : I have some optimized gear ( mostly +speed items from old content ) but defintely not anything worth the name of twink.
    I dont think content should be balanced around TBC twinks either.
    Last edited by Belmorn; 2021-12-09 at 08:17 AM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Log Cabin View Post
    Tank challenges beyond the dps check for towers are one of the easier ones.
    reasons why this response is bad:
    1)the quote didn't specify shit about specs so the challenge is irrelevant to the inaccuracy of the statement. So I guess you agree the guy I quoted is wrong.
    2)neglecting the hardest part of the challenge is just silly. The dps challenges, beyond the survivability check, are are some of the easier ones amirite?

    The tank challenge is a dps challenge

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiramon View Post
    Lol……….. ..
    yea, planning a defensive cd rotation around ~4 tank busters across 2min is not hard.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Log Cabin View Post
    I tend to disagree. This one feels...different? I don't recall using a shield trinket and fighting the worm boss for 14 fucking minutes killing the worm then tunneling the tauren ignoring the three dozen worms i had spawned desperately playing " I spy the stun totem" in legion.

    From what I have done and what I have seen from my mythic guild imp mother and the tank challenges are easy. Twins, are decent. With closing the eyes and fel totem running the gambit based on class
    I should've clarified. The part about it being tougher for some classes than others is what's still the same. I won't comment on tuning.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.” - MoanaLisa

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N View Post
    No, it became harder as a priest when you were "overgearing" it, you needed to balance the hp in there or wipe, with better gear you risked wiping yourself just because you healed too much.
    I definitely remember this being the most frustrating aspect of the healer challenge.

    I tried to obtain every single class and spec Mage Tower completion during Legion and settled for skipping all healer specs minus resto druid since I couldn't just gather some gear to faceroll the healer ones LOL

    I also think people greatly underestimate how much additional power you got from leveling up your artifact weapon. My Mythic Nighthold geared main struggled to barely finish his main challenge the very first week the tower was available, but I could easily faceroll most other specs in 890 ilvl gear during the Antorus patch just due having all the new traits on my artifact weapon plus the conduit thingy from Argus unlocked. So the tuning that players might remember could be dramatically different, and Blizzard may have opted to tune the encounters based on their original incarnation without taking into consideration the sheer power gap our characters would have from then and now. No legiondaries and no artifacts.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I tried to obtain every single class and spec Mage Tower completion during Legion and settled for skipping all healer specs minus resto druid since I couldn't just gather some gear to faceroll the healer ones LOL
    My memory is somewhat foggy on the healer one since I skipped most (got my paladin since it was my main). Wasn't the healing challenge easy for the most part until you got the the very end and by then you already spent like 8 or so minutes in there?

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    My memory is somewhat foggy on the healer one since I skipped most (got my paladin since it was my main). Wasn't the healing challenge easy for the most part until you got the the very end and by then you already spent like 8 or so minutes in there?
    I did healers by massively overgearing them as I'm not a very god healer. The last phase turns more into a dps check then a healer check. I would argue it is easier but I could see it being jarring to healer mains.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    My memory is somewhat foggy on the healer one since I skipped most (got my paladin since it was my main). Wasn't the healing challenge easy for the most part until you got the the very end and by then you already spent like 8 or so minutes in there?
    There were multiple phases. You had to keep a bunch of people alive at the beginning through a like... Firefight of increasingly difficult spawns which was semi-decently difficulty but could completely be overcome with gear. The second part of moving through the building was pretty easy. And then the last part was where things got dicey and why people say that increasing your ilvl was actually detrimental. There was some debuff that would explode for your current health value so healing too much and having high health could potentially cause issues in that phase.

    And then you had to re-do the ENTIRE freaking thing if you failed at the end so it was very annoying. I don't think most other fights had the same issue IMO. Maybe Sigryn or whatever her name is since that fight was also a bit of a slog fest.

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