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  1. #81
    what about Scarlet Crusade?
    they were wiped out at least 3 different times. and always returned back somehow

    even High Inquisitor's last quest from Lilian Voss was a joke. find some sort of mystical swords and stab her. because she keeps been ressurected. how the fuck?
    she was a normal human. not much strong in faith and what could bring her back to life ? she was no phoenix
    and after each ress she was still a human being. else other scarlets would burn her down

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by masterjc View Post
    what about Scarlet Crusade?
    they were wiped out at least 3 different times. and always returned back somehow

    even High Inquisitor's last quest from Lilian Voss was a joke. find some sort of mystical swords and stab her. because she keeps been ressurected. how the fuck?
    she was a normal human. not much strong in faith and what could bring her back to life ? she was no phoenix
    and after each ress she was still a human being. else other scarlets would burn her down
    There are two peak resurrection quests. The first is the Icecrown one where you restore someone to life completely by chopping out his parts from several abominations and then stitching them together with needle and thread and he's just fine and fully alive afterwards. The second is the Borean Tundra one where a guy's mentor was eaten by magnataurs ages ago and was already digested and shat out and at the end of the quest they bring him back fully alive.

    Though Whitemane is a close second, especially when those plot convenience swords you stab her with don't work and you still bring her back as a Death Knight later.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  3. #83
    So the night elves didn't even win Darkshore and they they still lost a lot of Ashenvale where the horde is still fighting them after the "cease fire".

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Pretty much like the exploring the eastern Kingdoms, 90% of it was nothing new as well. Gotta try to milk some money without putting any real effort in I guess.
    isnt that the concept they belong to, since years, in all their products?

    they are that cost effective, that you can call most of it cheap shit. recycling, rehashing, let looking shit as gold by using good marketing and their great artists… thats the definition of ATVI Blizzard for me since years.

    so i am not suprised about that tbh.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    There are further steps, like ditching their stance on the arcane for a class addition premised on them accepting dudes who practiced mass sacrifice and sucked on a demon mutation-free for thousands of years or Tyrande accepting love and peace in BFA/SL, but the neutering of the night elves began as soon as they moved from the RTS.
    That's the single thing that upset me most of all the "Treatment" the Night elves got over the course of WoW, i can understand toning down their power a bit (Why would they join the Alliance to defend from the Horde if they're just as powerful as them?), but their whole attitude was weakened.

    The whole premise of Night elves in WC3 was "Not your basic tree-huggers", and WoW turned them into... well, your basic tree-huggers.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    So the Kaldorei now officially don't have any territory of their own.
    Yep, after BfA, Alliance has three playable races that are all homeless refugees.

    It's almost like the story calls for the Alliance to run things for the Horde. (Which sucks)
    The Alliance saves the world so the Horde can destroy it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    The whole premise of Night elves in WC3 was "Not your basic tree-huggers", and WoW turned them into... well, your basic tree-huggers.
    It's also why it's baffling that people praise WC3 yet they turn around and want the stereotypical brainless killing machine orcs. A large part of what made WC3 interesting was going against the usual fantasy tropes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  7. #87
    Wow lots of great stuff. Great post, thanks for the info!

  8. #88
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    dogshit pointless, it changed nothing, BfA was only there to simple ruin the lore and their characters, astonishing.

    It actually made things almost like it was pre-cataclysm/pre-garrosh, awful

    But there is something that bothers me:

    - Azshara's pollution from goblin industrialization has tainted Durotar's natural water supplies, perhaps permanently, resulting in regular water shipments from the tauren in Mulgore.
    the fuck are the horde "leaders" doing that nobody cared to think about this? with Gallywix gone this should not be a problem anymore, but i guess its what happens when orgrimmar, the horde capital and orcish city, HAVE NO FUCKING LEADER.

    But, durotar "natural water veils" don't come from azshara, how they can be poluted by it? it was something that came with the cataclysm

    i guess it was a deliberate retcon to make the horde villains next patch yet again, how fitting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Every Pwny View Post
    So the night elves didn't even win Darkshore and they they still lost a lot of Ashenvale where the horde is still fighting them after the "cease fire".
    literally the only ones attacking are the night elves. and they take one of the horde bases in ashenvale having almost entirelly control of it, did you even read the post.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    the fuck are the horde "leaders" doing that nobody cared to think about this? with Gallywix gone this should not be a problem anymore, but i guess its what happens when orgrimmar, the horde capital and orcish city, HAVE NO FUCKING LEADER.

    But, durotar "natural water veils" don't come from azshara, how they can be poluted by it? it was something that came with the cataclysm
    I think that's one thing both factions have in common: They're pretty bad at day-to-day administration, either that, or it's indeed a setup for the Horde's next (Fourth? Fifth?) return to "RARRR! CONQUER!"-mode.

    The sole drinkable water supply (The river seperating Durotar and the Barrens, and the flood plains connected to that) spring up in the mountain range on the south end of Winterspring, but pass through Azshara (The west end of the zone, i thought most goblin buildings were to the east of there?), all the other water in Durotar is seawater.

  10. #90
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    I think that's one thing both factions have in common: They're pretty bad at day-to-day administration, either that, or it's indeed a setup for the Horde's next (Fourth? Fifth?) return to "RARRR! CONQUER!"-mode.

    The sole drinkable water supply (The river seperating Durotar and the Barrens, and the flood plains connected to that) spring up in the mountain range on the south end of Winterspring, but pass through Azshara (The west end of the zone, i thought most goblin buildings were to the east of there?), all the other water in Durotar is seawater.
    but the supply water problem should not exist anymore after the cataclysm, it brought fresh water in the south of durotar

    But hey, who am i to say something

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    literally the only ones attacking are the night elves. and they take one of the horde bases in ashenvale having almost entirelly control of it, did you even read the post.
    The horde is still attacking the night elves since they are IN Ashenvale. They are still fighting the horde after the cease fire because the horde is still in there taking night elf land. It's clear you don't have a clue what is happening. Just because the horde committed genocide against the night elves doesn't mean they can take their land as well, by being in Ashenvale the horde are the aggressors.

  12. #92
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Every Pwny View Post
    The horde is still attacking the night elves since they are IN Ashenvale. They are still fighting the horde after the cease fire because the horde is still in there taking night elf land. It's clear you don't have a clue what is happening. Just because the horde committed genocide against the night elves doesn't mean they can take their land as well, by being in Ashenvale the horde are the aggressors.
    the horde was there since warcraft 3, they will not left something they already got it far back, and its the night elves who are attacking the horde bases.

    the horde took those lands when the night elves unprovoked start killing orcs back in wc3.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    the horde was there since warcraft 3, they will not left something they already got it far back, and its the night elves who are attacking the horde bases.

    the horde took those lands when the night elves unprovoked start killing orcs back in wc3.
    The horde was out of Ashenvale after SoO, it was also shown during WoT in the two novellas the night elves had full control of it and that is also why the horde has Azshara because of the treaty. It's clear you aren't aware of a lot of the story.

  14. #94
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Every Pwny View Post
    The horde was out of Ashenvale after SoO, it was also shown during WoT in the two novellas the night elves had full control of it and that is also why the horde has Azshara because of the treaty. It's clear you aren't aware of a lot of the story.
    The horde never left the warsong lumber camp and they sure will not leave now. Just like the night elves never left azshara, as you can clearly see in this book, and they are attacking both
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2021-12-12 at 11:02 AM.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    It's also why it's baffling that people praise WC3 yet they turn around and want the stereotypical brainless killing machine orcs. A large part of what made WC3 interesting was going against the usual fantasy tropes.
    Because subversion by itself doesn't go anywhere unless you open more doors than you close. The night elves are a good twist on basic movie LOTR elves because their ferocity and cultural quirks as well as history lend themselves to stories and conflict. With the orcs, it's different. Sure, it's all very astounding when you first show people noble savage green orcs and this new guy who, can you believe it, looks like an angry green man, but acts like a human and is best buds with them. But then you have to actually make stories with the guys where you've removed all prior lore on them and put them in a situation where they're self-sufficient and have no struggle with anyone. And you've already told the two stories you can them overcoming their issues with the demons, through Grom and them overcoming the humans who haven't realized they're now noblesavages, in Daelin. So now what?

    WC3's orc retcon opened up more options to be fleshed out later, but by itself it also made them just as one note as they'd been before, just in a different way. I can tell you nobody rolled an orc so that Thrall could tell them that they had to save a dwarf princess. It was their later WoW stretch, especially Wrath and Cataclysm and the Durorar retcon that made the race fleshed out enough that even now when their cast is barren the actual bedrock is strong enough that you could still make an orc character and slot them into virtually anything. Even their current meme state can be corrected by just injecting them with more of a cast and screentime, not something you can say about the post-WC3 night elves, post-TBC Blood elves, post-BTS Forsaken or any other number of writing victims.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-12-12 at 11:34 AM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post

    "The Kaldorei were very few, they suffered a genocide and due to lack of resources they fight or die, so they have no choice but to fight alone against the Horde."
    And that's a fight they should lose very fast. They have no farmers, no craftsmen, no supply lines. There is barely any Alliance hold in Kalimdor, Theramore and Darnassus are gone. There's the Exodar but you can't really stage a continental war from an isle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    This leads me to ask. Are we ever going to be able to see the opposite image to this one in lore?
    Or similar. Like a great image of the enslaved Orcs. Or an image of elves with orc skins hanging from the trees as mentioned in the books. Or an image of some hero alliance on piles and piles of orcs.

    Because the ones who are supposed to fear for their survival and fight to survive is the Horde not the Alliance.
    And they do. Why do you think the Horde needs Ashenvale? They need the food and wood while the Imperialist Night Elves that conquered Kalimdor in the same way are saying their sacred trees are more important than starving and freezing orc kids.

    There's a reason Orcs see the Elves as the bad guy.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    - There is a new dock at the Echo Isles supporting travel to Zulduzar, further connecting the two troll factions of the Horde.
    I can see how a lot of people wouldn't know this, because it's easy to miss this, but that's actually been in game since the start of BfA. Takes you to and from Zuldazar's docks.

    - Mount Hyjal and Nordrassil are not really mentioned (other than an ancient owl creature Ban'thalas being Malorne's ally and having stood together in the War of the Ancients) but the Cenarion Circle is confirmed to still accept druids from both factions. No new capital of the night elves is discussed.
    Well it's nice to see that a rare tame from Malorne's shrine that was introduced in Cataclysm now has lore. If they were allies, I wonder if Ban'thalos is also a Wild God?
    3 hints to surviving MMO-C forums:
    1.) If you have an opinion, someone will say that it is wrong
    2.) If you have a source, there will be people who refuse to believe it
    3.) If you use logic, it will be largely ignored
    btw: Spires of Arak = Arakkoa.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Every Pwny View Post
    The horde is still attacking the night elves since they are IN Ashenvale. They are still fighting the horde after the cease fire because the horde is still in there taking night elf land. It's clear you don't have a clue what is happening. Just because the horde committed genocide against the night elves doesn't mean they can take their land as well, by being in Ashenvale the horde are the aggressors.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ave-been-peace

    It is truly terrible and awful that the night elves will not get what they deserve, it seems. But I think the Horde (ceasefire or no ceasefire), still badly require natural resources from Ashenvale, the Fourth War must have driven them to breaking point also, and most of their forces are also struggling for survival. Even if the Horde Council wanted to repay the night elves, their interests must come first, or else their people would reject their authority entirely. Signing a piece of paper with a faction largely based a continent away does not change the fact that they badly need food and lumber resources to sustain themselves and their society, just like they did before and after the Cataclysm.
    "You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by florclorbromiod View Post
    And that's a fight they should lose very fast. They have no farmers, no craftsmen, no supply lines. There is barely any Alliance hold in Kalimdor, Theramore and Darnassus are gone. There's the Exodar but you can't really stage a continental war from an isle.

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    And they do. Why do you think the Horde needs Ashenvale? They need the food and wood while the Imperialist Night Elves that conquered Kalimdor in the same way are saying their sacred trees are more important than starving and freezing orc kids.

    There's a reason Orcs see the Elves as the bad guy.
    And they do. Why do you think the Horde needs Ashenvale? They need the food and wood while the Imperialist Night Elves that conquered Kalimdor in the same way are saying their sacred trees are more important than starving and freezing orc kids.

    There's a reason Orcs see the Elves as the bad guy.[/QUOTE]

    Yes take someone else hard work is more easy, they have druids, shamans, what stoping the orcs to make there own wood, food? They have a savanna wtf, they can eat, and freezing in durotar how, they frostshok themselfs to death?

    Orcs wanna everything from someone else all the time because if u cant create u stole and destroy.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Loreth88 View Post

    Yes take someone else hard work is more easy, they have druids, shamans, what stoping the orcs to make there own wood, food? They have a savanna wtf, they can eat, and freezing in durotar how, they frostshok themselfs to death?

    Orcs wanna everything from someone else all the time because if u cant create u stole and destroy.
    Night elves didn't create create the forest, if they did it would be some nightmarish piece of shit, pretty much each time the night elves tried to be the great terraforming geniuses they failed spectacularly.

    Though you are correct the ocs rather take than create things on their own.

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