Do you think Thrall will keep his promise to Tyrande Whisperwind regarding Sylvanas?

[VladlTutushkin]

nope, but nice try flipping the "no, u" card


Alliance still have their leaders, alliance still have their thematic, alliance still fine, they even got more shit after BfA, making the status quo go back to pre-cataclysm, where they had massive advantage.

Yeah, poor night elves, isn't like they have other major places to live, unlike forsaken, who you know, got screwed over and now have an alliance character for leader.



azshara ws a place overun by demons and elementals, is fucked. Isn't all (troll)night elf ancient land all the same? why cry about one and let the other free?



Ashenvale is not their most populated zone, they only go there because they keep fighting the warsong, hyjal, teldrasil and even feralas were bigger.

and isn't like the horde is set on top of night elves settlements or kicking then out of their homes, they are in the damn border of the place, where nobody lived, they were not making any difference.



isn't like half of that didn't happened to then already



Come back to me when they villain bat your racial leaders, kill all your prominent npcs, you pass 2 expansion without a racial leader and then get your entire thematic shafted.

Or even better, talk to me about "real kick in the nuts" when a horde character became racial leader of the night elves

You just being subjective again. Or rather you are subjective based on your own point of view. Because same as you dont give a fuck about massive genocides horde keeps getting away with while Alliance told to "choose renewal" and eat shit... then neither i care about Forsaken getting a new leader that contrasts radically against their previous portrayal. "Boo hoo poor forsaken" indeed.

Also no, "half" of that didnt happened. Alliance got into the keep that was previously held by feral worgen and then by those rebelling undead, but it is a small scale OP, unlike literally half the Ashenvale being taken.

And yeah, night elves dont have that many places left to live. If they dont start ousting Cenarion Circle from Hyjal or Moonglade or any other place those druids take over and allow everybody and their bear in. Teldrassil is gone, Feralas literally had only one fortress that never was populated by civilians, and it was said in the book that Ashenvale ws their major populated area. They dont "go there to fight the Horde" they literally live there, at least until its retconned and so far it wasnt.

And hey, i would love to come back when Genn or Turalyon go nuts and do "reverse Cata" on you with Genn/Tura being "Alliance's Garrosh" and Tyrande being "Alliance's Sylvanas". But you will have to eat shit for the duration till you have to (allowed to, generously) attack Genn in the end of next expack and then five expansions down the line allowed to forgive and redeem Tyrande.

As i said - i would gladly, eagerly let you experience Cata, MoP and Legion/BfA in reverse. But you would not enjoy it, thats the thing.

[Syegfryed]

You just being subjective again. Or rather you are subjective based on your own point of view.

that is rly gold, coming from you, who just ignore everything that happened to the other side and other races, because "elves"

Because same as you dont give a fuck about massive genocides horde keeps getting away with while Alliance told to "choose renewal" and eat shit... then neither i care about Forsaken getting a new leader that contrasts radically against their previous portrayal. "Boo hoo poor forsaken" indeed.

"massive genocide"

>some non named npcs died, waow, what a big problem, lets completely ignore how malfurion killed horde soldiers by the hundreds in darkshore alone

You think its worse that not villain bat your racial leader, to keep her alive, than get the character of the opposite faction as your leader is just compltely, blatantly, bias.

Plus, horde lose numbers more than the alliance all the time, trolls and blood elves joined the factions almost extinct.

Like, numbers don't even matter, they will just pull more like always

And yeah, night elves dont have that many places left to live.

isn't like they have hyjal, and feralas, unlike all of the other horde races who only ahve their own capital and nothing more.

And hey, i would love to come back when Genn or Turalyon go nuts and do "reverse Cata" on you with Genn/Tura being "Alliance's Garrosh" and Tyrande being "Alliance's Sylvanas".

you would love to, but you will not, cause they can only kill and make horde characters villains.

As i said - i would gladly, eagerly let you experience Cata, MoP and Legion/BfA in reverse. But you would not enjoy it, thats the thing.

oh, so you are telling me we should siege and plunder stormwind to kill varian instead? also kill prominent and important alliance characters there?

you want that night elves get their leaders killed and your race get ignored by 2 expansions without even a leader replacement?

You also want this new troll druid who, was blessed by ysera to be your racial leader?



dude, you don't know what you are talking about, night elves yeah, they were screwed, like any race in this game, stop pretending they got the worse, there is many races, in both factions, with way more problems and in a worse state than then

Like, this is exactly what night elves are:
https://i.imgur.com/6ymH7Je.jpeg

[VladlTutushkin]

that is rly gold, coming from you, who just ignore everything that happened to the other side and other races, because "elves"


"massive genocide"

>some non named npcs died, waow, what a big problem, lets completely ignore how malfurion killed horde soldiers by the hundreds in darkshore alone

You think its worse that not villain bat your racial leader, to keep her alive, than get the character of the opposite faction as your leader is just compltely, blatantly, bias.

Plus, horde lose numbers more than the alliance all the time, trolls and blood elves joined the factions almost extinct.

Like, numbers don't even matter, they will just pull more like always


isn't like they have hyjal, and feralas, unlike all of the other horde races who only ahve their own capital and nothing more.


you would love to, but you will not, cause they can only kill and make horde characters villains.



oh, so you are telling me we should siege and plunder stormwind to kill varian instead? also kill prominent and important alliance characters there?

you want that night elves get their leaders killed and your race get ignored by 2 expansions without even a leader replacement?

You also want this new troll druid who, was blessed by ysera to be your racial leader?



dude, you don't know what you are talking about, night elves yeah, they were screwed, like any race in this game, stop pretending they got the worse, there is many races, in both factions, with way more problems and in a worse state than then

Like, this is exactly what night elves are:
https://i.imgur.com/6ymH7Je.jpeg

You just ignoring parts of my post on purpose now. I told you why they dont "have" Hyjal or Moonglade, because those places are taken over by Cenarion Circle who plays WoW version of Greenpeace and allows anybody with druidic inclination there. Its not night elven land, its druids land. By that logic orcs and tauren own any place Earthen Ring has an outpost.

And yes, i would absolutely enjoy a reverse of Cata and BfA. But also the plots between them too, you know, Sylvanas and her merry murder of everything in Hillsbrad and so on.

And yes, yes, yes KILL THE RACE LEADERS because i dont give a single crap about them. Racial fantasy and spirit are far more important then dumbass talky heads propped on sticks. Thats why even if Forsaken get Calia as a leader their racial fantasy pre-Calia will still be intact and their core will remain.

Also, you completely ignore that genocide is not so shitty due to "numbers". Its shitty because its the "your race cant wage war in a game about WAR!".

So to elaborate on that. IF Calia makes Forsaken abandon the Blight, stop using necromancy and only use conventional weapons, which will lead to them losing endlessly to Alliance in the span of several expansions then yes, that will be "screwed". So far they just brushed against the fur, nothing more.

Also Troll druid blessed by Ysera? That would be badass, hand me one over.

[Syegfryed]

You just ignoring parts of my post on purpose now. I told you why they dont "have" Hyjal or Moonglade, because those places are taken over by Cenarion Circle who plays WoW version of Greenpeace and allows anybody with druidic inclination there. Its not night elven land, its druids land. By that logic orcs and tauren own any place Earthen Ring has an outpost.

it is literally in the canon that the night elves are setting in hyjal

And yes, i would absolutely enjoy a reverse of Cata and BfA. But also the plots between them too, you know, Sylvanas and her merry murder of everything in Hillsbrad and so on.

the famous, you think you do, but you don't.

But i know wha you mean, as long they screw humans is fine,

And yes, yes, yes KILL THE RACE LEADERS because i dont give a single crap about them. Racial fantasy and spirit are far more important then dumbass talky heads propped on sticks. Thats why even if Forsaken get Calia as a leader their racial fantasy pre-Calia will still be intact and their core will remain.

they tried to kill both, but the fanbase just don't want that fam, that is an alliance problem, not a horde problem.

Are you even being serious, forsaken racial fantasy intact even with Calia? lmao, their entire fantasy is RUINED, LOL, thats the problem with only caring about night elves, you just everything that happens wih all the rest

Also, you completely ignore that genocide is not so shitty due to "numbers". Its shitty because its the "your race cant wage war in a game about WAR!".

yeah, killed, some random, pointless npcs, that will be replenished the next expansion, because numbers mean nothing, what a big problem.

So to elaborate on that. IF Calia makes Forsaken abandon the Blight, stop using necromancy and only use conventional weapons, which will lead to them losing endlessly to Alliance in the span of several expansions then yes, that will be "screwed". So far they just brushed against the fur, nothing more.

And when did the night elves abandon their druidic ways? lol

Also Troll druid blessed by Ysera? That would be badass, hand me one over.

yeap, sure, lets say we believe you.

[VladlTutushkin]

it is literally in the canon that the night elves are setting in hyjal


the famous, you think you do, but you don't.

But i know wha you mean, as long they screw humans is fine,


they tried to kill both, but the fanbase just don't want that fam, that is an alliance problem, not a horde problem.

Are you even being serious, forsaken racial fantasy intact even with Calia? lmao, their entire fantasy is RUINED, LOL, thats the problem with only caring about night elves, you just everything that happens wih all the rest



yeah, killed, some random, pointless npcs, that will be replenished the next expansion, because numbers mean nothing, what a big problem.


And when did the night elves abandon their druidic ways? lol



yeap, sure, lets say we believe you.

"Canon" says they were camped there as refugees. Be thorough with your canon if you want making statements like that. As far as Exploring Kalimdore goes they cant even settle Darkshore since its so poisoned and destroyed.

And until we see how Calia ends up, if she dosent get killed in "Evil Light" expansion or goes full on Shadow or something. Or if her presence affects them in any way.

For comparison - Tyrande went through Night Warrior ritual and supposedly was going to make the race more badass, ended up changing nothing. So same with Calia, she will be sitting in the capital while Forsaken will be massacring human farmers outside the gates or anywhere really.

Its not about NPCs, its about race being shown as a pathetic punching bag. In a game where war proficiency is supposedly VERY important. Its like being a hunchback in a beauty contest. Sure you can apply, but that wouldnt be good for you.

And night elves became entirely castrated to the point where goblins and blood elves and undead are better forest fighters then they are and can ambush Sentinels, druids of the claw and so on. Even SHREDDERS managed to ambush. So now turn that at forsaken and make a comparison. Humans outdoing you in alchemy and plague making, making Blightier Blight. Or for example gnomes outperforming you in fear tactics and so on. Forsaken being death scared of gnomes, crying in the ditches.

And i am absolutely serious about a troll. Anything is better then Tyrande or Malf at this point. Why not a troll? Hell, i take an undead night elf as a leader.

You have no clue how bad it is. You cant even imagine what i would accept to change that.

[Syegfryed]

"Canon" says they were camped there as refugees. Be thorough with your canon if you want making statements like that. As far as Exploring Kalimdore goes they cant even settle Darkshore since its so poisoned and destroyed.

camped as refugess in their own thing, sure, hey, at least they are not gnomeregan chilling

And until we see how Calia ends up, if she dosent get killed in "Evil Light" expansion or goes full on Shadow or something. Or if her presence affects them in any way.

her mere presence, with derek, already affect the race.as a whole;

Its not about NPCs, its about race being shown as a pathetic punching bag. In a game where war proficiency is supposedly VERY important. Its like being a hunchback in a beauty contest. Sure you can apply, but that wouldnt be good for you.

newsflash: every race is show to be a pathetic punching bag for the other to kill, depending on the quest or the plot, its being this way for years, taurens got an entire vilalge bombed into extinction, sorry that the water went into night elf ass this time, but everyone gets a turn.

Your lost a capital, forsaken too, at least we didn't raid teldrasil to plunder and kill your leaders

And night elves became entirely castrated to the point where goblins and blood elves and undead are better forest fighters then they are and can ambush Sentinels, druids of the claw and so on. Even SHREDDERS managed to ambush. So now turn that at forsaken and make a comparison. Humans outdoing you in alchemy and plague making, making Blightier Blight. Or for example gnomes outperforming you in fear tactics and so on. Forsaken being death scared of gnomes, crying in the ditches.

sure, goblins who lost their leader as well

But dude, this is a world of magic that let you be invisible, can't do much about that, and if you didn't remember, blood elves were night elves, they lived in the forests as well, they would know how to deal with the forest.

Plus, goblins wer in ashenvale since in wc3 too, Grom himself build some shreders from then, and yet, night elves didn't try to kill then there.

You are not even stopping to realize that the horde made a surprise attack, and that is the point of one, you know, not knowing that is about to happen, and even when they did, even without their army, they were able to hold the entire horde, with malfuron killing by the hundreds , and you are telling me they are just "punching bag", its hilarious how you don't realize how minimal night elf problems are compared to other races, including alliance ones. Horde lost more soldiers in a pointless attack than a bunch of nameless npcs.

Like, they alone did more than most of the alliance against the might of the horde, and you are still complaining how things went

At this point, just take ashenvale, leave the alliance and the game, since why the race is even here, zones must be consted so the conflict goes on.

And i am absolutely serious about a troll. Anything is better then Tyrande or Malf at this point. Why not a troll? Hell, i take an undead night elf as a leader.

You have no clue how bad it is. You cant even imagine what i would accept to change that.

like i said, lets just pretend we believe that.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

"Canon" says they were camped there as refugees. Be thorough with your canon if you want making statements like that. As far as Exploring Kalimdore goes they cant even settle Darkshore since its so poisoned and destroyed.

They aren’t refugees in hyjal they own it and always have, the Cenarion Circle is lead by malfurion the co leader of the night elfs and all of there holdings are night elf land.

Shadows rising makes this perfectly clear saying thrall and co are only allowed into hyjal because tyranda/malfurion let them come in and that horde Druids are the only members they are willing to tolerate in there lands likely because they didn’t take part of the war of thorns and were at silithus instead.

[VladlTutushkin]

camped as refugess in their own thing, sure, hey, at least they are not gnomeregan chilling



her mere presence, with derek, already affect the race.as a whole;



newsflash: every race is show to be a pathetic punching bag for the other to kill, depending on the quest or the plot, its being this way for years, taurens got an entire vilalge bombed into extinction, sorry that the water went into night elf ass this time, but everyone gets a turn.

Your lost a capital, forsaken too, at least we didn't raid teldrasil to plunder and kill your leaders



sure, goblins who lost their leader as well

But dude, this is a world of magic that let you be invisible, can't do much about that, and if you didn't remember, blood elves were night elves, they lived in the forests as well, they would know how to deal with the forest.

Plus, goblins wer in ashenvale since in wc3 too, Grom himself build some shreders from then, and yet, night elves didn't try to kill then there.

You are not even stopping to realize that the horde made a surprise attack, and that is the point of one, you know, not knowing that is about to happen, and even when they did, even without their army, they were able to hold the entire horde, with malfuron killing by the hundreds , and you are telling me they are just "punching bag", its hilarious how you don't realize how minimal night elf problems are compared to other races, including alliance ones. Horde lost more soldiers in a pointless attack than a bunch of nameless npcs.

Like, they alone did more than most of the alliance against the might of the horde, and you are still complaining how things went

At this point, just take ashenvale, leave the alliance and the game, since why the race is even here, zones must be consted so the conflict goes on.



like i said, lets just pretend we believe that.

If you dont want to argue in good faith and just go “lets just pretend we believe” then neither shall i waste time talking to you. Lets just pretend i did and wrote a full response.

- - - Updated - - -

They aren’t refugees in hyjal they own it and always have, the Cenarion Circle is lead by malfurion the co leader of the night elfs and all of there holdings are night elf land.

Shadows rising makes this perfectly clear saying thrall and co are only allowed into hyjal because tyranda/malfurion let them come in and that horde Druids are the only members they are willing to tolerate in there lands likely because they didn’t take part of the war of thorns and were at silithus instead.

Exploring Azeroth contradicts that though.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Exploring Azeroth contradicts that though.

Exploring Azeroth has to take place before shadows rising or Zekhan would be BBQ, which means the night elfs just hadn't settled there before shadows rising.

[VladlTutushkin]

Exploring Azeroth has to take place before shadows rising or Zekhan would be BBQ, which means the night elfs just hadn't settled there before shadows rising.

It takes place after that. So yeah, it contradicts your point.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It takes place after that. So yeah, it contradicts your point.

Do you have any passages to back up that it happens after shadows rising? As far as I’m aware there is no mention at all of zekhan’s injury’s or recovery which would be something to mention as it would stop him from exploring.

[VladlTutushkin]

Do you have any passages to back up that it happens after shadows rising? As far as I’m aware there is no mention at all of zekhan’s injury’s or recovery which would be something to mention as it would stop him from exploring.

Because there is literally nowhere to fit it other then there. Also by that time Tyrande is gone, so we can assume she is in SL already.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Because there is literally nowhere to fit it other then there. Also by that time Tyrande is gone, so we can assume she is in SL already.

The book fits between BFA’s end and shadow rising just fine and it obviously doesn’t take place after the leader are kid napped/tyranda leaves or else they would mention thrall and baine being taken.

Every thing points to shadow rising being the last bit of lore pre SL not exploring, no mention of zekhans time in zandalari, no mention of his injury’s or the amount of time it would take to recover, no mention of the maw which he’d know about, no mention of thralls/baines meeting with tyranda/malfurion or how even the horde Druids look down on the hordes actions in BFA, ect.

Nothing points to it being after shadows rising.

[VladlTutushkin]

The book fits between BFA’s end and shadow rising just fine and it obviously doesn’t take place after the leader are kid napped/tyranda leaves or else they would mention thrall and baine being taken.

Every thing points to shadow rising being the last bit of lore pre SL not exploring, no mention of zekhans time in zandalari, no mention of his injury’s or the amount of time it would take to recover, no mention of the maw which he’d know about, no mention of thralls/baines meeting with tyranda/malfurion or how even the horde Druids look down on the hordes actions in BFA, ect.

Nothing points to it being after shadows rising.

Book is full of inconsistencies so i am not surprised they would mostly not mention SR in it.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Book is full of inconsistencies so i am not surprised they would mostly not mention SR in it.

Having inconsistencies and not having a single mention of any of the events of shadows risings or thrall/baine’s kid napping is not at all the same thing.

on the other hand there are things you can even point to in shadow rising where the events of exploring are mentioned like how thrall/baine meet with tyranda and co because the night elfs are continuing hostiles and thralls wants them to seek peace.

[VladlTutushkin]

Having inconsistencies and not having a single mention of any of the events of shadows risings or thrall/baine’s kid napping is not at all the same thing.

on the other hand there are things you can even point to in shadow rising where the events of exploring are mentioned like how thrall/baine meet with tyranda and co because the night elfs are continuing hostiles and thralls wants them to seek peace.

They said that Taurajo had no survivors in Exploring Kalimdor.

Or how they both said that night elves continue hostilities against the Horde (or rather defending against Horde hostilities to be honest) and yet they also say that Shatterspear are still Horde and yet allowed to remain at Darkshore.

Also if Darkshore is abandoned by night elves and yet Shatterspear still live there that means Horde technically owns Darkshore.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

They said that Taurajo had no survivors in Exploring Kalimdor.

Or how they both said that night elves continue hostilities against the Horde (or rather defending against Horde hostilities to be honest) and yet they also say that Shatterspear are still Horde and yet allowed to remain at Darkshore.

Also if Darkshore is abandoned by night elves and yet Shatterspear still live there that means Horde technically owns Darkshore.

Um are you ok? None of that has any thing to do with which book is where time wise, like none of that is relevant at all.

[VladlTutushkin]

Um are you ok? None of that has any thing to do with which book is where time wise, like none of that is relevant at all.

Just pointing out inconsistencies. However, idea that Horde still won Darkshore despite "losing" is pretty much in line with how Blizz prefer to write the horde. Always something to sweeten the deal. Never a real pain.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Just pointing out inconsistencies. However, idea that Horde still won Darkshore despite "losing" is pretty much in line with how Blizz prefer to write the horde. Always something to sweeten the deal. Never a real pain.

Ok? Jump two post back I guess, there being inconsistencies doesn’t mean they wouldn’t mention shadows rising at all if it came before exploring.

[tromage2]

You talk about THrall, a backstabber and a Orc turning his back to his people and let them all to rot.
So that is all you need to know what Thrall words are worth.