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  1. #21
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    not at all. Candle factory looks like it threatened their employees, amazon suggested their employees stay as it was not safe to travel.
    They had a ton of warnings and time to leave way earlier.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by D Luniz View Post
    considering the discussion section of almost every article Ive seen on this, there are always 2 or 3 people trying to make it sound likes it's the Amazon plant.

    Starting to wonder if it's some memo that went out. "shift the argument to Amazon"
    Or maybe it just happens to be 2 places that pretty much had the exact same story behind it.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    And some of those people have text messages to back up their claims - texts to loved ones saying they aren't being allowed to leave prior to tornado arriving. As damning evidence as it goes above the he-said/she-said argument.

    Of course, unless the factory has a parent company with deep pockets, there is no one to sue.
    Though they are private they do seem to have deep pockets Mayfield had a multi million dollar expansion in June.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post


    Or maybe it just happens to be 2 places that pretty much had the exact same story behind it.
    Sure, if you're an idiot it who only read as far as tornado and factory in the headline it probably sounds very similar just like how someone who is violently murdered by the serial killer sounds exactly the same as someone who got in a car accident where a drunk driver was at fault because they were both killed by people.

    Based on the information we have right now confusing the two stories helps no one and contusing to dig deeper on this hill of ignorance doesn't really help you either. Now rub your amazon hate bonner with thoughts of Jeff bezos getting lost in space and just accept that.
    Last edited by shimerra; 2021-12-15 at 12:56 AM.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Seeing the devastation that tornado caused is horrifying. And the sheer mass of it, especially at this time of the year.
    Thanks Climate Change.

  5. #25
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Sure, if you're an idiot it who only read as far as tornado and factory in the headline it probably sounds very similar just like how someone who is violently murdered by the serial killer sounds exactly the same as someone who got in a car accident where a drunk driver was at fault because they were both killed by people.

    Based on the information we have right now confusing the two stories helps no one and contusing to dig deeper on this hill of ignorance doesn't really help you either. Now rub your amazon hate bonner with thoughts of Jeff bezos getting lost in space and just accept that.
    Ah yes, gotta defend the poor billionaires who create those working conditions. To the rescue!


  6. #26
    Literally the same shit happened with Amazon warehouse.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/amaz...friend-2021-12

    Amazon worker killed in warehouse collapse wasn't allowed to leave when the tornado approached, girlfriend says

    An Amazon worker who was killed in the Edwardsville, Illinois, warehouse collapse wasn't allowed to leave as a tornado was approaching, his girlfriend told the New York Post.

    Larry Virden, who started working for Amazon five months ago, was among the six employees who died in the destruction. A large wall in the warehouse and a section of the roof collapsed.

    Virden's girlfriend, Cherie Jones, told the Post in an article published Sunday that she was texting him shortly before.

    "He always tells me when he is filling up the Amazon truck when he is getting ready to go back … I was like 'OK, I love you.' He's like, 'well Amazon won't let me leave until after the storm blows over,'" she told the Post.

    Jones told the Post that Virden texted her 16 minutes before the tornado was said to have touched down. She said this was enough time to get back to their house in nearby Collinsville, which she said was a 13-minute drive away.

    "We heard the tornado didn't touch down until 8:39 so he had 20 minutes to get home," she told the Post.

    Jones said Virden sent his text at about 8:23 p.m.

    "I messaged him and that was the last text message I got from him," she told the Post. "I told him where we live, it was only lightning at the time. After that, I got nothing from him."

    Jones told the Post she did not want to blame Amazon for her partner's death but that she couldn't help but wonder.

    "It's that what-if situation: what if they would have let him leave? He could have made it home," she told the Post.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Literally the same shit happened with Amazon warehouse.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/amaz...friend-2021-12

    Amazon worker killed in warehouse collapse wasn't allowed to leave when the tornado approached, girlfriend says
    Yep, just saw a tiktok of a guy that was killed in the Amazon warehouse, basically saying that they couldn't leave, moments before he was killed. Think it was the same guy.

  8. #28
    I'm not defending the company threatening employees they'd get fired if they leave, that's bullshit.

    But as someone who lives in tornado country, the absolute last thing you ever want to do is have your employees leave DURING a tornado warning. You shelter in place. That's the policy just about everywhere in tornado country. Otherwise the company becomes liable and the risk of death increases. Most companies are required to have a disaster plan for just this scenario. Regardless, if a tornado warning is in your area, don't fucking run away!

    The right thing would've been to let the workers leave when the area was designated as a high risk for tornadoes that day, before the warnings hit.

    On the surface it seems to me that the candle factory didn't have a disaster plan in place for tornadoes. That's a lawsuit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Literally the same shit happened with Amazon warehouse.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/amaz...friend-2021-12

    Amazon worker killed in warehouse collapse wasn't allowed to leave when the tornado approached, girlfriend says
    Honestly this is why most people die in tornadoes. They think they can outrun a storm. Meteorologists hate when people think they can get home before a tornado hits. The warnings are there for a reason.

    Whatever Amazon did or didn't do prior to the warnings, they were absolutely in the right to not let employees leave during the tornado warning, assuming they had some kind of shelter/disaster plan in place.
    Last edited by Chonogo; 2021-12-15 at 06:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    Man, there really should have been an Xzibit cameo in Inception.

  9. #29
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chonogo View Post
    I'm not defending the company threatening employees they'd get fired if they leave, that's bullshit.

    But as someone who lives in tornado country, the absolute last thing you ever want to do is have your employees leave DURING a tornado warning. You shelter in place. That's the policy just about everywhere in tornado country. Otherwise the company becomes liable and the risk of death increases. Most companies are required to have a disaster plan for just this scenario. Regardless, if a tornado warning is in your area, don't fucking run away!

    The right thing would've been to let the workers leave when the area was designated as a high risk for tornadoes that day, before the warnings hit.

    On the surface it seems to me that the candle factory didn't have a disaster plan in place for tornadoes. That's a lawsuit.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Honestly this is why most people die in tornadoes. They think they can outrun a storm. Meteorologists hate when people think they can get home before a tornado hits. The warnings are there for a reason.

    Whatever Amazon did or didn't do prior to the warnings, they were absolutely in the right to not let employees leave during the tornado warning, assuming they had some kind of shelter/disaster plan in place.
    I would think that buildings constructed in tornado-prone areas should have to be built to give people a place to adequately shelter to the same degree that buildings built in earthquake-prone areas have to be built to specific construction standards.


    In that it should be straight-up illegal not to. Especially when you consider there are almost 1000 tornadoes a year in the US, and there are maybe 100 dangerous earthquakes across the entire world in the same time period.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2021-12-15 at 06:58 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I would think that buildings constructed in tornado-prone areas should have to be built to give people a place to adequately shelter to the same degree that buildings built in earthquake-prone areas have to be built to specific construction standards.


    In that it should be straight-up illegal not to. Especially when you consider there are almost 1000 tornadoes a year in the US, and there are maybe 100 dangerous earthquakes across the entire world in the same time period.
    That would make sense,however the the tornado prone areas are bible thumping supply side Jesus corporations can do no wrong Republican strongholds,so good luck getting those rules implemented with out getting the Federal government to cover all the costs of the installation and any losses incurred during their use.

    And I seriously wish to fuck I was joking,but having lived in tornado alley for a few years I know I'm right. :/

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I would think that buildings constructed in tornado-prone areas should have to be built to give people a place to adequately shelter to the same degree that buildings built in earthquake-prone areas have to be built to specific construction standards.


    In that it should be straight-up illegal not to. Especially when you consider there are almost 1000 tornadoes a year in the US, and there are maybe 100 dangerous earthquakes across the entire world in the same time period.

    The United States has some of the dumbest zoning laws and building codes in history, we have people building in known flood and tornado zones. Every single year there's tragedy and destruction then they rebuild to do the same fucking thing over again. It's pure insanity that we allow people to build wherever they want in so many states even worse that the government provides insurances for this.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    The United States has some of the dumbest zoning laws and building codes in history, we have people building in known flood and tornado zones. Every single year there's tragedy and destruction then they rebuild to do the same fucking thing over again. It's pure insanity that we allow people to build wherever they want in so many states even worse that the government provides insurances for this.
    The issue is that we keep helping them rebuild in those same areas. If an asshole wants to build at the bottom of a ravine that is prone to flooding, let him deal with it.
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    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
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  13. #33
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    The issue is that we keep helping them rebuild in those same areas. If an asshole wants to build at the bottom of a ravine that is prone to flooding, let him deal with it.
    Would be nice if proper labour laws also existed to protect that asshole's employees.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Would be nice if proper labour laws also existed to protect that asshole's employees.
    We are in a time where getting a new job is very, very easy. So, go get new jobs. They can unionize, and demand better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    I hate personal freedom because people abuse it like a shiny new toy.

  15. #35
    The manager is correct.
    You don't leave during tornado.

    If you die on the road, you got nothing.
    If you die on the job in the building, the company has to pay for the death.

  16. #36

  17. #37
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    /eyeroll Jesus.

    On topic: while I get the "stay inside where it's safer" angle, I do, the issue appears to be "if you leave the building, you're fired" and the message that conveys. Management is denying this, so even they know they're not allowed to do this.

    I also understand the idea of saying "you're safer in here" but the factory was leveled, so no, they weren't.

    Firing someone for leaving their shift without warning isn't something I'm going to oppose in an abstract case, but this doesn't appear to be one. And it's going to be hard to prove this because (a) I doubt the supervisors in question said something on a voice mail or email and (b) many of the witnesses appear to be dead.

    And of course, "You can't leave, you have to stay here" is vague.

    This feels like a civil case that will end up being settled. And only because the building collapsed. If the building had stayed up, those workers saying "they told us they'd fire us if we left" probably wouldn't have a case at all.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    The manager is correct. You don't leave during tornado..
    Then a mgr should have said; "If you leave the bldg you're dead.."

  19. #39
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Then a mgr should have said; "If you leave the bldg you're dead.."
    Like, if the response from management had been "you can't leave, there's a tornado warning and we don't want you to die. We need to get everyone in the building into the safest spot we have until the danger's passed", then nobody would have an issue.

    Instead, the reasons given appear to have been about work, and there was a complete lack of any attempt to get staff to safety.

    That should be considered the kind of gross malicious negligence that should see the companies responsible found 100% responsible for those deaths. And by that I mean the manager (if they survived) facing multiple counts of negligence leading to homicide, and stretching that as high into upper management as the policies go; if that policy came down from corporate, then put the board on trial for those counts of negligence leading to homicide. Every single one of them. If they can show they voted against that policy, they can get found not guilty, but if they did vote for it, prison.

    Exploitative abusers shouldn't be able to get away with willful negligence leading to death just because they're rich.


  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Like, if the response from management had been "you can't leave, there's a tornado warning and we don't want you to die. We need to get everyone in the building into the safest spot we have until the danger's passed", then nobody would have an issue.

    Instead, the reasons given appear to have been about work, and there was a complete lack of any attempt to get staff to safety.

    That should be considered the kind of gross malicious negligence that should see the companies responsible found 100% responsible for those deaths. And by that I mean the manager (if they survived) facing multiple counts of negligence leading to homicide, and stretching that as high into upper management as the policies go; if that policy came down from corporate, then put the board on trial for those counts of negligence leading to homicide. Every single one of them. If they can show they voted against that policy, they can get found not guilty, but if they did vote for it, prison.

    Exploitative abusers shouldn't be able to get away with willful negligence leading to death just because they're rich.
    And, for that to actually hold up I feel a building needs a tornado safe space like a strong cellar. Not be working the line, but actually offer true shelter.
    - Lars

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