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  1. #1

    Hard core raiders don't like the answer: but Blizzard is right about Power Infusion.

    If you play with other humans: the social tension of "who gets PI" is something you should manage. Or put it another way: if you're such a hard core player and so good: learn to be good at managing social tension too.

  2. #2
    PI is not even a concern in real top-level play, as the math has already been done on who will benefit from it the most, as that's what benefits the group the most.

    PI drama is mostly a mid-tier/lower-tier concern, where everyone thinks they're gods gift to DPS & that they should get it over the other person because they're amazing.

  3. #3
    I'm pretty sure most raiders are accepting of PI. Like yea all dps want it but I've never heard anyone in my guild complain about it being given to the best class for the phase/fight on prog. On farm we all make jokes about who should get it for parsing but yeah never heard some one get mad about it.

    edit: pretty much what toybox said above me

  4. #4
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    You can either be all about yourself or all about your team. It's rare enough that those simultaneously align perfectly.

    Players that are all about themselves should be carefully excised if the group wants to succeed at higher levels of play. Stuff like this is a good reason to be in a guild.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  5. #5
    Giving other players a buff is a great feeling if you also get something in return. Giving another player a buff in spite of buffing yourself feels pretty bad. That's the core issue with PI right now and one which was conveniently glossed over in that CM's response.

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Razorice's Avatar
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    I give it to myself so HA!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    If you play with other humans: the social tension of "who gets PI" is something you should manage. Or put it another way: if you're such a hard core player and so good: learn to be good at managing social tension too.
    No they aren't because they don't get the issue. Farm is boring what makes it fun is competition on logs with people who are outside your raid. Only one person can currently compete per week because of stuff like pi and simp covs it's super annoying. It reduces fun it's also not fun for the priest to have to give it up. Should just be only cast on self and simp cons should be reworked.

  8. #8
    Chicks dig the long ball.

    In theory, you're right and that's how everything should work. But in practice, people who put up the big numbers are the ones who get respected in most guilds (particularly outside the top 1000 or so). No one says, "hey the shadow priest was in 7th but they really should be 3rd because of pi!" This is also why support classes have never been a thing in wow - their contributions go unnoticed because they get attributed to others. Maybe other people get satisfaction by feeling like they are underappreciated contributors, but that's never been me.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    PI is not even a concern in real top-level play, as the math has already been done on who will benefit from it the most, as that's what benefits the group the most.

    PI drama is mostly a mid-tier/lower-tier concern, where everyone thinks they're gods gift to DPS & that they should get it over the other person because they're amazing.
    This, don't mistake the e-peen morons' whinging for a majority or meaningful opinion.

    They're paying customers, but as the Karen-meme hype has illustrated well enough: The customer is often wrong, unreasonable and/or stupid, especially in social groups that enable him or her.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  10. #10
    Just the concept that a blue post even needed mentioned that they aren’t going to design for high fidelity 3rd party website parse tracking pretty much sums up how massively the WoW community has (d)evolved over the years.

  11. #11
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    There were never any issues with PI in my middle-of-the-pack, HC raiding guild. Since I've mained priest in BfA and SL, I just PI'd whoever the officers decided, and voila dead bosses.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  12. #12
    Issue with PI is the same issue as mages crit buff and warlocks single haste buff back when they had them. It isn't so much that one person gets to be powerful it is that eventually those buffs can utterly break certain classes to the point you build around comps buffing them.

    They have the same situation legendary items do in they mess up balance.

  13. #13
    Any guild worth their weight gives it to the player that will benefit most from it.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    PI is not even a concern in real top-level play, as the math has already been done on who will benefit from it the most, as that's what benefits the group the most.

    PI drama is mostly a mid-tier/lower-tier concern, where everyone thinks they're gods gift to DPS & that they should get it over the other person because they're amazing.
    I can tell you it's definitely not a casual concern, since my guild who haven't even done more than 4/10m seem to not care at all and joke about it.

    I suspect it's mainly people who feel hard core but I agree: they are not the most hard core (like top 10 guilds) because those manage feelings.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Giving other players a buff is a great feeling if you also get something in return. Giving another player a buff in spite of buffing yourself feels pretty bad.
    You get back your guild becoming better. That's more hard core than wanting something back.

    Besides: do not assume people are stupid; they know how PI works (and how you lose).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    No they aren't because they don't get the issue. Farm is boring what makes it fun is competition on logs with people who are outside your raid. Only one person can currently compete per week because of stuff like pi and simp covs it's super annoying. It reduces fun it's also not fun for the priest to have to give it up. Should just be only cast on self and simp cons should be reworked.
    Blizzard covered that bad argument in their post. The coder of the warcraftlogs already puts an asterisk next to some logs.

    So you already call them "helped by simps" so why do you bother more for your logs than for your guild's progress?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Giving other players a buff is a great feeling if you also get something in return. Giving another player a buff in spite of buffing yourself feels pretty bad. That's the core issue with PI right now and one which was conveniently glossed over in that CM's response.
    This is not issue. If you actually feel this way they should definitely add more mechanics like this in the game. I don't recommend playing healer btw - makes me wonder why would you play priest in the first place though.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    Chicks dig the long ball.

    In theory, you're right and that's how everything should work. But in practice, people who put up the big numbers are the ones who get respected in most guilds (particularly outside the top 1000 or so). No one says, "hey the shadow priest was in 7th but they really should be 3rd because of pi!"
    If you are truly in a hard core guild you know those things. It's clearly the realm of the not so hard core that care about those things; I've never seen a casual or a top 10 guild whining that their logs ranking isn't god-like.

    Being a good player is also about managing those selfish feelings and even the technical naivety (of not knowing giving out those spells takes away from personal logs and gives it to another (and it shows in logs)).

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Giving other players a buff is a great feeling if you also get something in return. Giving another player a buff in spite of buffing yourself feels pretty bad. That's the core issue with PI right now and one which was conveniently glossed over in that CM's response.
    Oh so you want FFXIV dance partner suddenly, gee, who could have thought.

    PI is trash by design, completely clouds logs and makes you feel bad for losing a dps buff.

    Yes top guilds decides properly where it should go, doesn't make fun or interesting tho.
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  18. #18
    When I was still playing, I had a fair amount of fun micro managing my fairies and PI as holy priest. I specifically got an addon to track others cooldowns usage to line up with them, that's fun and engaging. Too bad you need addons to make buff management fun.

  19. #19
    Brewmaster Julmara's Avatar
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    obviously a tank should get it

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    Just the concept that a blue post even needed mentioned that they aren’t going to design for high fidelity 3rd party website parse tracking pretty much sums up how massively the WoW community has (d)evolved over the years.
    It's worse than that for those that hate the feature. The logs site already puts an asterisk to those that get PI and Blizzard mentioned that.

    So it's not only selfishness-driven but also depends on naivety about how warcraftlogs works.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    There were never any issues with PI in my middle-of-the-pack, HC raiding guild. Since I've mained priest in BfA and SL, I just PI'd whoever the officers decided, and voila dead bosses.
    Yes. This is definitely not something I hear from casual guilds or very hard core guilds. It's mainly people that feel hard core but lack certain qualities like working well with people.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Yes top guilds decides properly where it should go, doesn't make fun or interesting tho.
    That's subjective. For a lot of us raiding isn't only a dps meter. Managing selfishness is also a "game" that can be improved in multiplayer games.

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