[Spoiler]So....giant red ball which broke arbiter is....

[Myradin]

The Jailer prophesized that the prophecy would be broken.

Genius.

And completely in line with WoW's current story, unfortunately.

NGL that's actually pretty rad given how dumb prophecies are in everything to be honest.

Blizz just highlights how dumb the trope is. Its just something that's used to make things feel more epic.

[Ersula]

Nice, but titan souls do not go to the shadowlands upon death, as they are not mortal. Danuser is still retconning everything.

I think that was intended: We killed Argus in a very specific way. Thus breaking the machine of death: IE throwing a brick into a washing machine.

[Gorsameth]

How do we know this? We have no way to know what the broad strokes of Blizzard's plans ever were unless they tell us outright. From what we have heard from lore has always been there are stronger forces at play than even the Lich King (during Q&A panels after the Old Gods/Void Lords were revealed). The Pantheons of Death and such are at least as old as Titan Lore, with them being the pantheon of order. Why is it so hard to believe that they had an outline of how this would all play out? Even if they didn't hit every story beat in a way that was satisfying to some doesn't mean it was all made up on the spot, or even later than the lore the preceded it in presentation.

if this retcon fest is what they came up with while having all this planned since WotLK then it just makes it even worse then it already is.

The different forces and actors existed previously in lore to some degree. But the general cast of characters is not the problem with SL. Its the haphazard way in which the story is forced to tie into events of the past that makes everything so janky.

I highly highly doubt the concept of Sargeras being tricked by Zovaal into creating Argus to bluescreen the arbitor while the Nathrazium prevent him from killing Azeroth so that Zovaal van use the galactic 3d printer to make a new reality was a thing when Legion was being written.

[El Gucaragua]

Xavius was a nobody who worked for the old gods, why the hell would he have been the reason the arbitor blue screened.

Again, the moment blizz said legion was when it happened and when we found out about the nathrezime true loyalties was when argus became the clear culprit to anyone who has common sense.

Anything else is completely idiotic given just how obvious it was.

Freaking Xavius, lmao give me a break.

Won't give you a break whatsoever. This wasn't Runecarver = Primus obvious. Oh my God the color red! It can only be one literal thing!

[Varx]

Okay, how was this coordinated? Why are the dreadlords working for the Jailer at all? Apparently they are all powerful shapeshifting, teleporting, realm defying entities. They could run the universe (pretty much did, everything that happens in WoW comes down to "A Dreadlord did it" by now). What is their endgame?
Why was the jailer banished and then left unchecked for millenia?
The story presented only makes sense if we assume that all actors on "our" side are complete idiots. And while that seems to be the case, it really makes for a terrible story.

This isn't about why the DLs are working for the jailor. We knew they were for we reason.

And partly due to that fact it was obviously who was responsible for the arbitor.

[DemonHunter18]

if this retcon fest is what they came up with while having all this planned since WotLK then it just makes it even worse then it already is.

The different forces and actors existed previously in lore to some degree. But the general cast of characters is not the problem with SL. Its the haphazard way in which the story is forced to tie into events of the past that makes everything so janky.

I highly highly doubt the concept of Sargeras being tricked by Zovaal into creating Argus to bluescreen the arbitor while the Nathrazium prevent him from killing Azeroth so that Zovaal van use the galactic 3d printer to make a new reality was a thing when Legion was being written.

they pretty much openly stated that the Jailer is a completely new character they created so yeah, definitely something they were working on since the beginning of WoW

just Danuser and his jabronis thinking themselves superior to previous writers.

[Khaza-R]

The nath we're the highest ranking members of the legion, yet we're loyal to zovaal, granting them easy access to argus manipulation.

They were? Then why were Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden second in command to Sargeras?

[LordVargK]

Won't give you a break whatsoever. This wasn't Runecarver = Primus obvious. Oh my God the color red! It can only be one literal thing!

I remember last patch I pretty much asked the same question here and the most answers were "It was Denathrius, the thing that hit the Arbiter was Remornia, obviously since the sword is red, duh."

[Varx]

Won't give you a break whatsoever. This wasn't Runecarver = Primus obvious. Oh my God the color red! It can only be one literal thing!

Why are you only stating there color. That wasnt the only reason...

You must have clearly missed them if you somehow thought Xavius was the cause

ursoc, the dread lord's. Come on man....

Again, Xavius is a NOBODY who worked for the old gods who are void aligned and against death. Why would they work for zovaal.

Jesus Christ....

[LordVargK]

They were? Then why were Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden second in command to Sargeras?

The Dreadlords are special Agents. They operate outside the usual chain of command.

[Gorsameth]

I think that was intended: We killed Argus in a very specific way. Thus breaking the machine of death: IE throwing a brick into a washing machine.

Right, so now it was planned that we would hitch a ride on Kiljaedens ship, kill him as we reach Argus and then have Illidan use a stolen portal key to tear open a hole linking Azeroth to Argus so that we could invade the legions homeworld, slaughter countless daemons and finally confront Sargeras's respawn machine?

This keeps getting more and more far fetched.

[DemonHunter18]

They were? Then why were Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden second in command to Sargeras?

the funniest part is, Nathrezim are lower than Pit Lords in rank while the Eredar are #1.

[Varx]

They were? Then why were Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden second in command to Sargeras?

Besides the two ranking generals, obviously....

The nath as a race were up there. I mean the were the espeianage force of the legion. Put two and two together.

[Felrane]

Why are you only stating there color. That want the only reason...

You must have clearly missed them if you somehow thought Xavius was the cause.

Again, ursoc, the dread lord's. Come on man....

Again, Xavius a a NOBODY who worked for the old gods who are void alligned and against death. Why would they work for zovaal..

Jesus Christ....

While I dont think it was Xavius. He wasn't a nobody. He was the first Nightelf Demon and the most powerful one. Almost summoned Sargaras through the well of eternity. Corrupted the night elf world tree Teldrassil(later cleansed) as well as the World Tree Shaladrassil. Took control of the Nightmare that Yogg created. Almost destroyed the world with it(book). Corrupted Fandral Staghelm which later joined with Ragnaros. Put Malfurion into a sleep for years after he caught him in the emerald dream. Corrupted Ysera through the tears of Elune. Was working for both the Legion and the Old gods and had a direct tie to Archimonde(WoD). He has done more then any other person on Azeroth as far as evil goes. He is also a Demon so likely isn't even dead.

As far as it being Argus that took out the Arbiter while its dumb. Blizz could have easily shown what happened in a flash back or questline... but its blizz so they are just going to tell us. Titans have been able to split their soul so taking a chunk of Argus and chucking it at the Arbiter is fine. Just doesn't make sense how it even got into the Shadowlands since Titans dont die the same way mortal souls do. They are also creatures of Order and should go to that realm anyways.

[niilokin]

nathrezim are the cunning ones, yet they leave behind a fucking diary. All this shit makes Kil'jaeden the DECEIVER look even more of a clown.

[Gurbz]

Right, so now it was planned that we would hitch a ride on Kiljaedens ship, kill him as we reach Argus and then have Illidan use a stolen portal key to tear open a hole linking Azeroth to Argus so that we could invade the legions homeworld, slaughter countless daemons and finally confront Sargeras's respawn machine?

This keeps getting more and more far fetched.

That's the biggest problem I have with this whole thing. If Zovaal were powerful enough to be capable of orchestrating all of the events that had to happen in order for this explanation to make sense, without anyone in the entire cosmos noticing the manipulations as they were happening, then he would have never actually needed us in the first place and in fact should have never been able to be imprisoned in the Maw to begin with. It opens up so many plot holes in the lore that it is almost an insult to the intelligence of the players for this to be what Blizzard wants us to accept as the explanation for one of the most important events leading up to Shadowlands.

That being said, there is nothing in the recent datamining released by wowhead that states the Argus was what disrupted the Arbiter in the first place. Only that his soul was being used to disrupt the ritual to replace the Arbiter with a new one. Even the wowhead article's author says as much in the article.

"However, it's not explicitly stated that Argus was the force that weakened the Arbiter in the Shadowlands cinematic, and due to all the twists and turns in the recent part, it's difficult to make a clear statement without conclusive dialogue."

The rest of the article after that is just a rehash of the debate about could it have been Argus or not. The article's title is blatant click-bait because there is nothing in it that definitively tells us what broke the machine of death at all.

[Varx]

While I dont think it was Xavius. He wasn't a nobody. He was the first Nightelf Demon and the most powerful one. Almost summoned Sargaras through the well of eternity. Corrupted the night elf world tree Teldrassil(later cleansed) as well as the World Tree Shaladrassil. Took control of the Nightmare that Yogg created. Almost destroyed the world with it(book). Corrupted Fandral Staghelm which later joined with Ragnaros. Put Malfurion into a sleep for years after he caught him in the emerald dream. Corrupted Ysera through the tears of Elune. Was working for both the Legion and the Old gods and had a direct tie to Archimonde(WoD). He has done more then any other person on Azeroth as far as evil goes. He is also a Demon so likely isn't even dead.

As far as it being Argus that took out the Arbiter while its dumb. Blizz could have easily shown what happened in a flash back or questline... but its blizz so they are just going to tell us. Titans have been able to split their soul so taking a chunk of Argus and chucking it at the Arbiter is fine. Just doesn't make sense how it even got into the Shadowlands since Titans dont die the same way mortal souls do. They are also creatures of Order and should go to that realm anyways.

Yes he has a lot under his belt but none of it gave any reason to believe he was the cause of the arbitor blue screen. His cosmic alignment completely goes against death.

Yeah titans don't go to the shadowlands. But it's easy to think that the DLs had access to argus and probably spent eons secretly prepping him to be yeeted to the arbitors face at the moment of truth.

[Aucald]

True, however he did die before the Arbiter being defunct, so he was send to Maldraxxus by the Arbiter. For whatever crazy reason.

Wouldn't be the first singularly odd decision the Arbiter made. Vashj went to Maldraxxus straight away as well, despite her being involved in an attempt to siphon all the water in Outland away and essentially hold it for ransom. She definitely seemed like a Revendreth candidate as well.

[Felrane]

Yes he has a lot under his belt but none of it gave any reason to believe he was the cause of the arbitor blue screen. His cosmic alignment completely goes against death.

Yeah titans don't go to the shadowlands. But it's easy to think that the DLs had access to argus and probably spent eons secretly prepping him to be yeeted to the arbitors face at the moment of truth.

Ya I think its fine overall just getting tired of Blizz telling us after the fact. Making Zovval behind everything even when it doesn't make sense(mostly Warcraft 3 undead campaign) is getting old. The terrible cliffhangers after months of waiting for more terrible cliffhangers is also getting old. Started in BFA and its awful storytelling in a game like WoW or MMOs in general.

[Varx]

Ya I think its fine overall just getting tired of Blizz telling us after the fact. Making Zovval behind everything even when it doesn't make sense(mostly Warcraft 3 undead campaign) is getting old. The terrible cliffhangers after months of waiting for more terrible cliffhangers is also getting old. Started in BFA and its awful storytelling in a game like WoW or MMOs in general.

Yeah I agree 100%.