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  1. #61
    Epic! Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    I do not disagree at all. That's why I've never been a raider. I never got on the gear treadmill. I think raiders are silly. Especially with mythic+ and all these different raid difficulties now. You do content, so you can get gear, so you can access the same content on a slightly higher difficulty. It's idiotic.

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    That's what I plan to do. But that doesn't answer my question of what the point of the system is.

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    No. It has had systems to make you stronger overall.
    Wait, so you are not a raider, hate m+ and don't want to do the new outdoor content? What else is to do in the game lmao?

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    Not all forms. Pet battles can be excluded. But raids and dungeons? That's the only places where character power matters. Outdoor content is trivial. You don't need a 5 crit buff for a quest that requires you to kill 5 non-elite dreadlords.

    These developers aren't even playing their own game.

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    Oh yeah. All those players that are only waiting for this patch to release so they can do 3 world quests and 3 dailies a day where they get to pick up apples and rescue vombata cubs. Every day. So they can get slightly better at picking up apples and rescuing vombata cubs.
    "Wah people like something I don't how dare they!"

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    You say nothing in that entire post other than "you will dismiss anything people say anyway".

    When it's you who is doing that. You are dismissing everything I'm saying. You are evading the question.

    Nowhere in that post or in any other post have you answered the question "what is the point of a system that gives you a currency to unlock talents that make you minimally stronger for getting more of the currency."
    Your original question is how/why people would find this enjoyable. I replied with the bottom:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Secondly, the entire system isn't even implemented only most of it. Lastly, if you must know one of the main things I'm looking forward to is the language learning. It reminds me of the concept from FFX with Al Bhed primers which I enjoyed. Secondly there will likely be resources or stuff to farm from the mobs outside, which I know I'll have terrible RNG, and being able to perform them a bit faster is nice as well.
    This answered the question of why I would find it enjoyable. If you want to ask a different question about the system you asked above that is fine. It references back to my whole point of talents, etc acting as the same exact mechanism. The difference between the two is one expands over more content than others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keten View Post
    While the OP was a jackass, I do kinda see the point. The content I was interested in when I was playing was solo and LFD/LFR only. While this system, from what little I've read of it, would appear to be perfect for me, on paper, it actually sounds fairly lackluster.
    The thing is no one is saying it couldn't be better. Just that the general idea sounds good and can work. The thing is that it could use some refining. The OP, on the other hand, is essentially saying if it can't give you power or cosmetics then it is a waste of time because they dislike those things.

    The system overall is a nice step and with some refinements could be even better, but not every system will be a homerun immediately. I can't think of too many systems that were great right at the start that didn't have some kind of refining over time.

  4. #64
    It's just the renamed renown replacment timegating for the zone's content for the casuals. The local power gains are little carrots for the casuals which by all means should include you if you don't do any other endgame stuff.
    Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2021-12-17 at 03:20 AM.
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  5. #65
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    What pets and mounts?


    Ok so what do I do in the patch then?
    Do whatever you want.
    Do you like to do open world content?
    Do you want the pets?
    Do you want the tmog?
    Do you want the mounts?
    Then do zereth mortis, and do the cypher system.
    Do you want to raid?
    Do the raid
    Do you want to M+?
    Do M+
    Do you want to PVP?
    Do PVP.
    Do you want teir set bonus?
    Do any of the 3 above.

    its literally do whatever you want, everything is optional, although of course if you want the most benefit you do raiding, M+, and pvp. but zereth mortis? entirely optional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    And as I am trying to tell you, it is absolutely pointless. It's like if a boss dropped an item that gave you a consumable that gives you a 1% damage increase for the next week against that boss. And that's all it gives you. Why kill that boss?
    because each time you kill the boss the % is doubled, and every 10% you get you can kill the boss again each week.
    and also each time you kill that boss you get a pet/mount reward, aswell as some random currencies like gold and anima.

    the cypher gives you fun things ot work towards, that make both gathering materials, and killing stuff easier to do, not just in zereth mortis, but the maw, korthia, and all the shadowlands leveling zones.
    all the while it gives you cool cosmetics, toys, pets, and mounts to obtain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Its there to timegate the double lego and crafting tier sets, afterwards no player power, so essentially developer time spent on it is just for the timegating.
    neither of them come from the cypher my dude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    It means exactly what I said. There does not always have to be either power progression or cosmetics. Some people enjoy things for other reasons, such as just the activity itself. You only care about "power" and "cosmetic" so anything else you'll ignore and pretend doesn't exist.



    Dang, I nailed your comment on the head. I told you regardless of what I said you would dismiss it or ignore it and you completely ignored anything I said after that. Thanks for proving that point.
    it does give cosmetics, but no power, atleast in raids, it does give power to all open world shadowlands zones.

    This coming from the one person on the PTR to unlock all the rows in the cypher tree, and have completed most of the research on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alejandroo View Post
    That is not answering the question.

    Because the talents of the system are not worth the effort.

    Anybody who takes a minute to look into the system, the power gain the talents give you and the cost required to unlock them will soon discover they're not worth the effort. You will essentially do world quests and daily quests to gather Cyphers to unlock talents that don't even make you stronger in any significant way, but even if they did, would only make you stronger for the sole purpose of gathering more Cyphers. That you don't need in the first place if you realize the system doesn't provide anything for you.
    as someone who has used it a lot, yes the power is very noticable, at rank 1 you get powers like "10% chance to reflect attacks" or "10% bonus gold from all sources" and these work in all open world zones. you can have stronger versions of these, and also you can have tons of these up at a time. pair that with cool ass zone bonuses like being able to summon a power rangers mech and decimate mobs. its hella fun, and helps clear content faster, not just in zereth, but in all the shadowlands zones. making your daily questing in al the places and even world pvp (which is for fun) way cooler.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felis igneus View Post
    It's just the renamed renown replacment timegating for the zone's content for the casuals. The local power gains are little carrots for the casuals which by all means should include you if you don't do any other endgame stuff.
    Renown was a necessary thing to get though; and you were limited to 2-3 a week if you were playing every week. This is the complete opposite of that; not only is it not necessary at all but you can farm the absolute shit out of the currency needed and research multiple things at the same time. you're comparing a 13 week timegated necessary system to something optional that takes 3 weeks, tops. it's basically something extra to do while you're in the zone, that is all.

  7. #67
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felis igneus View Post
    It's just the renamed renown replacment timegating for the zone's content for the casuals. The local power gains are little carrots for the casuals which by all means should include you if you don't do any other endgame stuff.
    i mean fucking hilariously not even close to true but sure, whatever helps you sleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keten View Post
    Denying casual players, who make up most of the customers, the power fantasy that is at the core of RPGs is one way you could try to entice people to play your game. I'm not sure it's a great way, but it's a way.

    Thinking it through further I think if Blizzard made the power gains in world/LFD/LFR content from this system very significant and reducing the impact of Ilevel in that same content (via scaling) to where Ilevel is nearly meaningless it would neatly solve the casual-vs-hardcore dilemma when it comes to gear. Both groups would be significantly rewarded for their efforts in their chosen content in ways that apply only to their chosen content while also being actively discouraged from partaking in the other groups' content.
    sounds like you want open world players who log on do a world quest then log off, to be stronger then mythic raiders in LFD/LFR.
    yeah no, that sounds fucking hilariously abyssmal, no thanks my dude.

  8. #68
    If it's optional, great. That is how it should be. It's own system with it's own rewards people play if/when they want. That is the road to a fun game. I hope it's true.

    We don't need every system to be about player power and frustrating.

  9. #69
    Herald of the Titans Rendark's Avatar
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    The point is it makes them money.

  10. #70
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    It is basically, learn = Earn.

    Learn about the story and zone, earn rewards for doing so, such as flight in said zone.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  11. #71
    I also noticed it might be mainly a zone thing. But that is GOOD because no player power should ever be given from mundane content in order to do hard content.

    I would not be surprised if that's not totally true though for this feature so I'm not convinced yet.
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  12. #72
    Not everything is for everyone. Wonder why this is such a weird concept. If you feel it's not for you I suggest not playing the patch or indulge in whtat you like.

  13. #73
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keten View Post
    First off, I'm not your "dude". Stop that shit. Everyone sounds like a child when they say that.

    And yes, I absolutely do want that (except I'm talking about doing the entire Cypher, not "log in, do a WQ, log off" you dishonest person). And why not? Mythic raiders not only shouldn't be in LFD/LFR, they constantly scream on these forums that they don't want to be in LFD/LFR, but feel "forced" to be. So both remove the carrot that entices them there and then nerf their power progression method in that content so that they absolutely don't even want to be there. And, it's fair. Their gear is meaningless in casual content, while casual power progression via the cypher is meaningless in raid/m+/rated PVP content. It keeps both groups in their own lane unless they actually really want to partake of the other form of content, in which case they can do the content.

    This is exactly what pre-made content runners have been saying to casuals/solos for years ... "if you're not doing the content then why do you need the power from/for the content?".

    If a Mythic raider wants to be powerful in world/LFD/LFR content then they could do the cypher, just like everyone else. If a casual player wants to be powerful in Mythic raids then they can raid their way up the ladder from Normal to Mythic, just like everyone else.

    What you're asking for is special rewards for pre-made content, letting those players dominate in all forms of the game even though they aren't active in those other forms of the game. I'm saying the groups should be split from each other so no one ever has to feel "forced" to do anything they don't want to do, they get the RPG power fantasy from what they enjoy and it's only useful in what they enjoy.
    alright dude, imagine being elitist, about fucking LFR and LFD. That is... hilariously god awful.
    But hey, enjoy the game however you want to enjoy it dude. Cause this is how the cypher system works, and it wont effect any important content, even your "precious LFR/LFD"

    cause did, i agreed it should effect LFD/LFR, that would be fun, and they dont matter at all, but making ilvl have no effect on those, and ONLY this effect those, that is the worse idea ever dude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    I also noticed it might be mainly a zone thing. But that is GOOD because no player power should ever be given from mundane content in order to do hard content.

    I would not be surprised if that's not totally true though for this feature so I'm not convinced yet.
    unless they change something, as is its 100% not connected to player power.
    so for now its safe, but we will see if they keep with that, especially as tons of people like op here are complaining it gives no power...
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2021-12-17 at 09:36 AM.

  14. #74
    I am Murloc! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    unless they change something, as is its 100% not connected to player power.
    so for now its safe, but we will see if they keep with that, especially as tons of people like op here are complaining it gives no power...
    Really? Tons? That was like a second thread about the topic I saw here, and this one was clearly made for venting and flaming. I saw more from the usual haters being uninformed, complaining about "yet another mandatory grind". Let's not even pretend Blizz will revert the Cypher due to this kind of "feedback".
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-12-17 at 09:44 AM.
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  15. #75
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Really? Tons? That was like a second thread about the topic I saw here, and this one was made clearly for venting and flaming. I saw more of the usual haters being uninformed, complaining about "yet another mandatory grind". Let's not even pretend Blizz will revert the Cypher due to this kind of "feedback".
    true, but people love to hate on blizz, so they will change their ideals the second they can, ive already seen a few people who raged it was mandatory now raging that its "pointless cause there is no reason to do it"

  16. #76
    I am Murloc! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    true, but people love to hate on blizz, ive already seen a few people who raged it was mandatory now raging that its "pointless cause there is no reason to do it"
    And Blizz, and every other developer, learned ages ago to ignore these. These players don't represent shit.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  17. #77
    Did you really think they would bring out a patch without some form of timegating? While the system itself looks interesting, the main goal is to delay players from finishing content within the first week.

    Mobs need to take X amount of time to die
    Raid bosses need to take X amount of minutes to kill
    Reputations need X amount of weeks/months to get to exalted
    System needs X amount of time to complete
    Zone needs X amount of months to last
    and so on

    That is still the underlying design philosophy

  18. #78
    I tend to agree with most sentiments of the op, minus the part where he was atrociously insolent. That rage was funny, it got me interested to read each post and find how far he can go...

    I saw someone likening this narrow borrowed power grind system to your class talents. Class talents/abilities, whether in the form of a tree or a table, are the fundamental element of character power progression, which is a staple in RPG games and defines your character's capability to perform in the entirety of the game, it's not anywhere comparable to inconsequential temporary grind systems. That is the main issue with the latest expansions, lack of persistence, convoluted power layers that come and go. Your character starts and ends an expansion being the same. There is no development, no progression, only some grind in between that you took nothing out of and remember by saying how bad it was.

    Yes, this new zone system is optional, you can skip it. How good is a content patch that brings a main system where it being skippable is pointed out as its merit?
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  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    It's basically an optional system for pets and mounts...and well if you want to fly there

    If you give 0 shits about it then you just don't do it.

    So... If I don't care about mounts and pets, basically all new content I get between 9.1 and 10. is ~4 hours of questing, a new raid and Tazavesh added to the m+ rotation, is that correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Hate to burst your Bubble, but WoW has had little systems here and there to make you stronger in outdoor Content since Release.

    And nobody cared about that ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    Yes, this new zone system is optional, you can skip it. How good is a content patch that brings a main system where it being skippable is pointed out as its merit?
    So much this.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalraki View Post
    Did you really think they would bring out a patch without some form of timegating? While the system itself looks interesting, the main goal is to delay players from finishing content within the first week.

    Mobs need to take X amount of time to die
    Raid bosses need to take X amount of minutes to kill
    Reputations need X amount of weeks/months to get to exalted
    System needs X amount of time to complete
    Zone needs X amount of months to last
    and so on

    That is still the underlying design philosophy
    timegating has been a thing since Vanilla. Reps were timegated via dailies. yet people think that this is a new thing when it's really not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    So... If I don't care about mounts and pets, basically all new content I get between 9.1 and 10. is ~4 hours of questing, a new raid and Tazavesh added to the m+ rotation, is that correct?
    as has been the system for every patch since the beginning of WoW

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