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  1. #301
    top tier Marvel movie for me, not sure if its my favorite but its up there!
    Member: Shadow Lands Alpha Club, Member since 4/9/2020

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by The Vindicator View Post
    You imply I'm defending either film
    No, I'm stating a fact that Infinity War/End Game have more "homework". The kind of homework that most people enjoyed.

    I mean there's nothing wrong with a cohesive universe until that universe damages the integrity of individual films, considering there are films in the MCU that are considered filler films until the next big event film is exactly why this is a problem
    There are "filler films" in any franchise.

    The plot moves at a snails pace overall in films and its not even subtle anymore
    That is not factual at all. Every film has it's own plot and resolution within it. The fact that there is also a greater narrative at play does not mean it is moving "at a snail's pace".

    You're just being obtuse, you know full well the requirements of MCU films are deeper than simply watching a sequel requiring you to watch the previous film
    And yet, despite all that...it was all fine and dandy before this one movie requiring the viewer to have at least some familiarity with the events in Wandavision. Events that are summarized through about 30 seconds of exposition in the film. Exposition, I will add, that doesn't feel forced even if you already know what happened in Wandavision.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    top tier Marvel movie for me, not sure if its my favorite but its up there!
    I'd be curious as to what you liked about it, given everyone I've spoken to in person has said it is near the bottom. I'm curious what metric you're judging it against and if its more than just "the bright new thing" syndrome.

    Outside of Olsen's performance (and even then the script strained her abilities at times and made her seem wooden), what was there to like?

    I would have put the scene where the guy grills Strange at the wedding about the choices he made during Infinity War, but it falls apart when you realize his questions show way more knowledge than anyone outside of the Avengers would have about those events. (he knew about Strange giving the Time Stone to Thanos.....)

  4. #304
    6/10 and that is being generous.


    -I watched Wandavision and I still think we needed a better bridge to Wanda going full villain
    -they let Raimi be too Raimi. Jump scares, zombie walk Wanda. Bruce Campbell at least had a fun scene.
    -it was said in the movie review thread (you know, the place you can go to read reviews with limited spoilers) that the movie had no stakes and seemed like a cartoon. After seeing it, I wholeheartedly agree.

    Movie wasn’t devoid of good stuff:
    -Chavez was fun, wouldn’t mind seeing her again, perhaps a team of junior avengers with Kate bishop and a few others being teased in movies and TV shows.
    -Acting was fine, someone in this thread said Olsen carried the movie, definitely agree with that.

    Nerd issues:
    -Wanda can send beasts between universes but can’t just go there? Seems very plot convenient.
    -a trope I dislike about multiverse shenanigans in comics is using it as an excuse for hero massacre. Therefore the scene was expected and poorly executed.
    —Would have loved a post credit scene of Franklin bringing them all back (and implying he actually was the one to beat Thanos)
    -why on earth name drop the 616 Universe when it’s been established what the MCU’s designation is? Seems like someone didn’t do their homework.

  5. #305
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavoirFaire View Post
    Nerd issues:
    -Wanda can send beasts between universes but can’t just go there? Seems very plot convenient.
    -a trope I dislike about multiverse shenanigans in comics is using it as an excuse for hero massacre. Therefore the scene was expected and poorly executed.
    -Would have loved a post credit scene of Franklin bringing them all back (and implying he actually was the one to beat Thanos)
    -why on earth name drop the 616 Universe when it’s been established what the MCU’s designation is? Seems like someone didn’t do their homework.
    I am going to give an answer for a few of these.

    The reason she sends beasts is that is her being "reasonable." I know that isn't the best answer, but it is basically her not wanting to use her full power, for some reason. I would have had it be something like she was hiding the fact it was her for some reason. Like she was afraid of Strange or another magic user from finding out she was behind it.

    The 616 is dropped not because that is actually the "official" number of the universe, but rather just a nod to the comics. Similar to how in Far from Home, Mysterio said the same thing. In that case, he was lying. In this case, there is no good explanation. Similar to in the Arrowverse, the numbers don't match the numbers from the Comments, it is just "Hey, the comics did this too!" It is also likely why in that Universe, they didn't number themselves Number 1 as in the comics the "main universe" isn't Universe 1, and took 838 instead (Which I think is just to reference the Main MCU universe and the Comic so it is 2 numbers in each slot higher).
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  6. #306
    Personally I liked it, then again Wanda is one of my favorite characters in the MCU and she carried the show here. I didn't expect her to be the main villain since I avoided leaks and only watched the first few trailers and I thought the evil strange would play that role instead. And this movie confirmed she's pretty much the strongest character in the MCU except maybe Celestials (then again Eternals managed to destroy a new Celestial and Wanda can re-write reality so perhaps maybe not even them). One thing I didn't understand about Wanda's powers though is why she was just limping after Strange and company when they were going for the Book of Vishanti near the end. When she invaded Kamar Taj and finally escaped Strange's mirror prison she was wounded, yet instantly healed herself. Could she not do that to the body of other universe's Wanda that she was possessing? If so, kinda a weird limitation given what else she was doing in the movie.

    Also, lack of any references to Loki kinda surprised me. I didn't expect anything big, but there was pretty much nothing.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Well, it seems the universe we're seeing in Multiverse of Madness with the Illuminati was roughly at the same period as ours. Which means that when Infinity War happened, the TVA was still functional (as Loki was captured by the TVA at Endgame timeline). So I have trouble thinking a universe with such huge discrepancies would not make the TVA radars blip a bit when they defeated Thanos before the snap and killed Dr Strange right after. In fact, as soon as "their" Strange took the Dark Hold, this reality should have been erased as it would have threatened everything. That's something the TVA should have detected as far as I understood.
    But the whole point of TVA and MCU's Kaang was isolating the MCU's universe from the multiverse (primarily out of MCU's Kaang's fear of other Kaangs). The other universes that existed before that should have still continued to exist, just separated from the MCU. The TVA's actions afterwards only prevented the creation of new universes within the bubble MCU's Kaang created (or, more specifically - as per creator commentary - the creation of new timelines that would lead to more Kaangs within the MCU). And thanks to Loki and Sylvie's actions the MCU rejoined the multiverse and all those pre-existing other universes (as well as new universes branching off of the MCU).
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2022-05-08 at 12:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    I'd be curious as to what you liked about it, given everyone I've spoken to in person has said it is near the bottom. I'm curious what metric you're judging it against and if its more than just "the bright new thing" syndrome.

    Outside of Olsen's performance (and even then the script strained her abilities at times and made her seem wooden), what was there to like?

    I would have put the scene where the guy grills Strange at the wedding about the choices he made during Infinity War, but it falls apart when you realize his questions show way more knowledge than anyone outside of the Avengers would have about those events. (he knew about Strange giving the Time Stone to Thanos.....)

    Well I am bias as Dr. Strange is my favorite MCU character but was just fun, and I saw a teaser and that's it so I didn't expect Wanda to be evil and stay evil especially. I was honestly expecting it to pick up more where Spiderman left off and I'm glad it didn't.

    the pacing was good if not a little short of a movie. Seeing Prof X like the 80's/90's carton was amazing. The lack of an alternate Ironman was perplexing though. Seeing an alternate battle with Thanos that was won. Plot/acting all good to me. good tie ins to previous events without being lost if you didn't know all of them exactly.

    I don't pick apart movies esp MCU ones that have obvious plot holes. My favorite MCU movie is Thor Ragnorok, the GotG vol 1, and prob this or the first Dr. Strange.
    Member: Shadow Lands Alpha Club, Member since 4/9/2020

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    [spoiler]
    I don't pick apart movies esp MCU ones that have obvious plot holes. My favorite MCU movie is Thor Ragnorok, the GotG vol 1, and prob this or the first Dr. Strange.
    I’m increasingly becoming like this. If the movie is genuinely fun, I’m all in.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    Well I am bias as Dr. Strange is my favorite MCU character but was just fun.......
    Took out the rest to not use spoiler tag.

    So I see, you liked it because of the characters in it and don't think too hard about it. Fair enough, probably easier that way.

    Do you dislike any MCU movie then? I would think all of them fit the bill for how deeply you look at any of them.


    I personally liked Wanda up until Wandavision, when they turned her into a villain but treated her like the protagonist while not showing us a good reason for her to act the way she did. Dr Strange I liked up until Spiderman, when he was turned into an idiot who leaves teenagers to correct problems vastly beyond their scope and doesn't bother to talk spells over before just winging them cause "YOLO".


    The rest of the characters in this movie had zero development, which was especially odd for America, whose only growth was "hey pep talk from Strange and I can now control my power with no training or additional knowledge". Otherwise she is no different from when she started, and she was in the whole movie.....

    Prof X was nice to see, but they did nothing with him and nerfed his power and intelligence to a laughable degree. He should have been able to mentally control Wanda with barely a thought <--- yea I meant it. The fact that she overpowered him INSIDE THE MIND was silly. The other what if characters may as well have not been there as they had no purpose outside of "LOOKY! We made costumes!" Mordo was barely in it and did nothing outside of show that Strange is getting dumber and dumber.



    So yea, I guess if just seeing characters you recognize is enough, then awesome for you, they can make basically any pile of shit movie and make you happy. Probably an easy way to live.

  10. #310
    Honestly, I went in with low expectations because I kept seeing people review it low.

    But, I guess it just depends on the person? In my eyes, it was a very good movie. Doctor Strange isn't my favorite character, but the performances were excellent. There was a smart twist. There was a good lesson. I guess the cosmic concepts may be a little harder to understand for a few folks, but I had fun with it.

    The tone did definitely go in a horror direction in a few moments. This definitely isn't a movie to show your kids. There were three moments where I went "holy shit". But it didn't color the whole movie for me.

    8/10 from me.

  11. #311
    I'd say 5/10-6/10 for me. I wouldn't say I was disappointed as much as my worst concerns were confirmed. The plot, storytelling, casting, were all fine. However, I hate Sam Raimi, and the directing and cinematography was Raimi run amok. I cannot understand why anyone thinks of him as a "horror legend", when his directing makes everything 'spoopy' at best. I do think that this is an encouraging thing for the MCU in general in that previously, the MCU's internal 'style' has kind of overridden most of the more recent films into a kind of samey, pseudo-Russo brothers style (not that the Russo Brothers' style is bad when a particular film calls for it). The Eternals seemed to be somewhat of a victim of this, and it made it rather bland. Maybe Feige and co. will loosen some of the reigns on interesting directors and let their style shine through more.

  12. #312
    7/10

    The entire time with Wanda I was just "ahahaha....nooooo...don't catch me...ahahahah... <3 "

    Elizabeth Olsen is so good.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    The movie gives you a run down of what happened in Wandavision that is important and mentions the parts that matter.

    I mean Wandavision definitely is recommended, but the movie tells you the important stuff.
    The sense of what I'm getting from the critics is that that wasn't enough.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDL49 View Post
    The sense of what I'm getting from the critics is that that wasn't enough.
    Does anyone actually listen to movie critics though? Like is their judgment the deciding factor for people? Some, sure, but I think the bulk of movie goers wouldn’t give two shits about their opinion

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by JDL49 View Post
    The sense of what I'm getting from the critics is that that wasn't enough.
    Honestly, my mom understood everything that was happening with Wanda and her kids and she never watched Wandavision and she's hardly a huge marvel fan but she likes Dr Strange and Spiderman. I think if anyone didn't grasp what was going on in this movie then they weren't really paying attention to it. You can literally sum up the relevant parts of Wandavision as "Wanda magicked herself some kids and now they're gone" and you'd know enough for this movie

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by JDL49 View Post
    The sense of what I'm getting from the critics is that that wasn't enough.
    I don’t read critic reviews anymore, and everyone is different on how they want to be spoon fed details, so there’s never a Goldilocks zone on that. Was it not enough background of why she was sad, why she was the villain, or why an avenger was murdering people right and left? I know the answer to the first two, I don’t feel the third was justified, so that’s my problem with her portrayal. Maybe we’ll get Wandavision 2 and redeem her, or maybe Olsen wanted out of the MCU and this was a way to burn a bridge. Either way it’s a shame if we’re done with the character, especially like this.

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caerule View Post
    Honestly, I went in with low expectations because I kept seeing people review it low.

    But, I guess it just depends on the person? In my eyes, it was a very good movie. Doctor Strange isn't my favorite character, but the performances were excellent. There was a smart twist. There was a good lesson. I guess the cosmic concepts may be a little harder to understand for a few folks, but I had fun with it.

    The tone did definitely go in a horror direction in a few moments. This definitely isn't a movie to show your kids. There were three moments where I went "holy shit". But it didn't color the whole movie for me.

    8/10 from me.
    Your "holy shit" moment was totally unexpected for me too. I thought "wow .. they really did this!" Was nice, i liked it.

    Overall i feel people start to get a bit annoyed from Multiverse / P4 and the introduction of more and more heroes so fast. Kinda feels rushed like GoT season 8.
    No way home also felt like on a completely different level compared to the other P4 movies. There was just so much more character development involved.
    In 15 years they won't be hyped to see america chavez like they were when they saw doc ock again. They'll probably be like 'america who?'

    Hope Guardians 3 & Thor will change this a bit.

    6.5/10 from me.

  18. #318
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDL49 View Post
    The sense of what I'm getting from the critics is that that wasn't enough.
    Critics are never happy and what they want is weird.

    Modern critics are often out of touch with the general public right now.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  19. #319
    Everyone's going to have their own opinions of it.

    For myself, I enjoyed it...I wouldn't put it in the top 10 MCU flicks...but I wouldn't put it in the bottom 10 either.

    I like Sam Raimi. If you don't like Sam Raimi....that will probably impact your enjoyment of this film.

    I liked Wandavision. If you don't like Wandavision...that may impact your enjoyment of this film. If you haven't seen Wandavision and don't intend to...the movie sums up the relevant details for you very quickly. If you haven't seen Wandavision but would like to...I would reccommend watching it before this film...just to avoid spoilers.

    I like the MCU. If you don't like the MCU...why are you even in this thread? Go find something you do like. You'll be happier for it.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    I like the MCU. If you don't like the MCU...why are you even in this thread? Go find something you do like. You'll be happier for it.
    A lot of people loved Game of Thrones. Very, very few people loved Season 8. I think many of the people here arguing see the MCU in much the same way. They loved movies, characters, or stories that the MCU has provided, but do not like the direction it is going and see the movies/shows they are creating as inferior products compared to what got them there.

    Its Rocky 3 (many stories do this theme, but that is the one I go to).... you won, you are at the top, but instead of continuing to perform at the top of your game, you let other things intrude in on your life/work. Where once the MCU was "how do we tell great stories of characters you root for and identify with even though they are bigger than life heroes?"..... they have become "how do we inject our messaging into products we don't care about using characters we don't care about because we weren't there to make them what they were?"

    The MCU now is riding off the coattails of movies that made you care about characters. All they care about is posturing and milking as much money as they can out of the customer. (and I say this as someone that went to see Dr Strange this weekend so they got my money for this one)


    I want movies that make me (and more so my young boys that watch these) care about characters and learn good lessons. Captain America did that. Ironman did that. Thor did that.

    The movies now...... don't.

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