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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    I was under the impression that John Krasinski was supposed to play Mr F, in upcoming F4. Because if he does, then it would be awkward. Why not bring back Ioan Gruffudd for that small role? MCU is not bothered with tapping into "less then stellar" movies, as we seen in No Way Home (no Miles Teller though, that would be too much :v). I am not bothered that alternate universe versions of already established characters got owned, I have problems with the new ones that got introduced. It was HORRIBLE first impression for Mr F and Blackbolt. Like, both huuuuge and powerful Marvel characters, yet they got owned so easily while they powers weren't even properly shown.
    If anything it was more of a show of how hubris can bring Down even the mightiest.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    I was under the impression that John Krasinski was supposed to play Mr F, in upcoming F4. Because if he does, then it would be awkward. Why not bring back Ioan Gruffudd for that small role? MCU is not bothered with tapping into "less then stellar" movies, as we seen in No Way Home (no Miles Teller though, that would be too much :v). I am not bothered that alternate universe versions of already established characters got owned, I have problems with the new ones that got introduced. It was HORRIBLE first impression for Mr F and Blackbolt. Like, both huuuuge and powerful Marvel characters, yet they got owned so easily while they powers weren't even properly shown.
    Technically speaking, it wasn't the first time Blackbolt has shown up in the MCU. I just wish that it was.

    [IMG]https://tvseriesfinale.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/marvels-inhumans-abc-canceled-no-season-2-590x304.jpg[/IMG]

    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2022-05-11 at 03:36 PM.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  3. #363
    Want to throw a little theory I've been working on for a while in here. I haven't seen this movie or even read reviews.

    Theory is the difference, in movies, between audience and pro reviewers on rotten tomatoes. Specifically, when movies get great critical reviews but terrible audience reviews. It is a simple correlation I've noticed. Here's the theory:

    When movies on rotten tomatoes have very high critic but very low audience scores, and there isn't an overt political agenda, the reason is usually because that movie had a terrible ending.

    Theory continues that reviewers have to judge the entire movie, and not just the content of the 3rd act. They have to judge things like directing, cinematography, special effects, acting, and theme, instead of just the narrative destination. It is really not fair to the people who worked on a movie or the audience, to critique a movie based on one singular aspect(the ending of the script) with no credit given to the art of film-making or any of the facets of it. However, audiences do not feel the need to be fair with their assessments(especially when the disparate parts don't come together seamlessly), they simply assess based off the most prominent and memorable feature of a movie, the ending.

    Keep in mind, I'm not judging the audience, I tend to agree with them. "The Lady, or the Tiger?" endings have been GROAN inducing since that work was written, and shall continue to be. Endings that betray the audience are also super high risk, even though perhaps they also have the highest reward. Usually they just fall flat. Wicker Man for example.
    Last edited by Zenfoldor; 2022-05-11 at 04:19 PM.

  4. #364
    Moderator Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    It was fun movie. Maybe on Tuesday I’m going to get my campus friend and go again. Haha
    Behold my new creation!


  5. #365
    I am Murloc! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Overall I am a bit disappointed that the movie, with all it's multiverse premise, did not have bigger consequences for entire MCU.

    And I wonder what multiverse finale of this phase could be?
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-05-11 at 05:44 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  6. #366
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    Which should prove to you that such critics are not nearly as intelligent as they think they are. I've read plenty of critical reviews claiming confusion on subjects that were very clearly explained in a variety of movies.

    Wanda's motivations are perfectly clear. Watching Wandavision just tells such an audience member why those motivations are so very strong. The fact that such critics can't imagine that on their own...well, like I said; they aren't nearly as intelligent as they think they are...
    Yeah, this kinda make me scratch my head, maybe its because some criticsjust don't like the movie, at all, and are paid to review then, so they are rly biased against it. Some things are very clear and easy to understand, but they don't get it, or say the movie did bad in X, just because the movies he like do that

    I did some search for reviews in spider-man, and some people said things like they never watched a super-hero movie before


    Quote Originally Posted by Sorshen View Post
    I know the Inhumans series was a disaster, but I felt like they did Black Bolt dirty again with how easily he got destroyed.
    They did dirty with all the illuminati tbh, especially Xavier and Richards, hopefully this just means we will se then again in the future, and this is foreshadowing for secret wars

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    I was under the impression that John Krasinski was supposed to play Mr F, in upcoming F4. Because if he does, then it would be awkward. Why not bring back Ioan Gruffudd for that small role? MCU is not bothered with tapping into "less then stellar" movies, as we seen in No Way Home (no Miles Teller though, that would be too much :v). I am not bothered that alternate universe versions of already established characters got owned, I have problems with the new ones that got introduced. It was HORRIBLE first impression for Mr F and Blackbolt. Like, both huuuuge and powerful Marvel characters, yet they got owned so easily while they powers weren't even properly shown.
    He is probably sill going to be the MCU mr fantastic, there is even rumors saying he will also direct it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    That said... I think a few things in this movie were either severely underutilized, but also misused. Wanda, controlling a multi-dimensional being like Shuma-Gorath? As for underutilized things, I think "evil Strange" and the "Illuminati" thing could've been its own movie. They were felt... rushed
    It wasn't shuma, it was Gargantos

    Also, god damn, Wanda was so unnecessarily brutal and monstrous in killing the Illuminati. Poor Mr. Fantastic and Black Bolt....
    The idea was to make the movie close to the horror genre, thats why they had some creepy stuff like wanda going out of the glass like the ring girl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrimiOne View Post
    Question: would you guess the universe of this deadpool?

    Now that you mentioned, it brings me back.

    It wasn't universe 616 the prime universe of the comics? and the mcu was supposed to be another with since all the changes?, i think it was universe 199999 or some shit like that.

    I personally thing it was bad idea to make the mcu the 6146 as well...

  7. #367
    The Lightbringer Polybius's Avatar
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    Critics do nothing for me, and I only hear their reactions after watching the movie myself. This one was over the top, but it has more to appreciate out of than your average film. Magic is very hard to pull off, even harder to please everyone.

    Rule of thumb for me is to expect nothing, not even from lauded artists.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Technically speaking, it wasn't the first time Blackbolt has shown up in the MCU. I just wish that it was.

    [IMG]https://tvseriesfinale.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/marvels-inhumans-abc-canceled-no-season-2-590x304.jpg[/IMG]

    Is it still canon though? Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. isn't anymore and it's also created by ABC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Is it still canon though? Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. isn't anymore and it's also created by ABC.
    Maybe not...but, it is the same actor playing the character...much like Pat Stew and Prof X. So it's not like it's a completely fresh take.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Is it still canon though? Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. isn't anymore and it's also created by ABC.
    I haven't seen Doc Strange, but wouldn't the entire premise be that it is Canon, in some universe somewhere? It's not the important timeline, so none of it matters for real canon, right?
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Because I want to see general opinion and what scores people are giving it? I expect people to have some basic decency, and to follow forum rules, and use spoiler tags on movie details when it's been out for all of about a day. I do suppose decency and maturity are asking a bit much for MMO-C, tbf.
    Same.
    Common decency.
    Some of us come for the reviews and though we try hard to 'gloss' over the screen when we realize we're about to read/are reading a spoiler - sometimes that's not obvious until your past the point of no return.

    There weren't spoilers for 11 pages of the thread - why not give a few weeks of spoilers before breaking out into full plot details, uncensored. Don't pretend threads around here only start once a release date hits. haha. Vast majority of these threads have dozens, sometimes hundreds of pages, before you get to 'release' and the chance of a single spoiler. So I call bullshit on the 'don't come in and read if you don't want spoilers.'

    We're just asking for some politeness here. Thank you to those that give it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Faltemer View Post
    9. Spoilers If you have information from say a book (Or any other source) a movie or TV show is being adapted from you need to use spoiler tags. Same thing if you have found reliable leaks online. Do not ruin other's excitement when we have a system in place to deal with this. Otherwise spoiler tags are not required, regardless of how a topic is titled. You should be able to discuss the most recent events that have aired or been released without needing to use spoiler tags. If you want to discuss spoilers, use the tags.

    Those are this subforums rules and have been for a long time.
    Well that rule is confusing. So before a media release, if you're talking about online leaks, books, other 'canon' (I guess?) sources - you are SUPPOSE to use spoiler tags. So even if the books' been out five years?

    Then the bolded part. But then RIGHT AFTER the bolded part it then says "If you want to discuss spoilers, use the tags." So if you spoil it no tags, but if you discuss those spoilers later- use a tag?

    Just saying - that wording at the end just negates the sentence before it? *shrugs*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    The hand wringing over the content is the funniest shit I've ever seen.

    1995 Jumanji was more intense than this.
    To me its just a 'good example' of the somewhat backwards standards of the American Movie ratings and how they have changed over the past few decades.

    Because basically, in this day and age, violence (as people are commenting for Dr. Strange) doesn't get you that R Rating. That may have been the case 20 years ago, but not anymore. Esp. fantasy violence (zombies, giants, not 'normal people').

    For *many* movies the biggest/main thing that gets them R rated vs. PG13 (in the US anyway) is SEX/Nudity and *extreme* violence (realistism, not fantasy creatures). Flash a single tit and you can get an "R" rating in the US, but yeah - you can blow up all the people you want and show all sorts of graphic violence, and qualify for pg13 or be aired on prime time tv.

    Its really silly that it works that way - but it is more often true than not - that a naked boob separates pg13 and R.

    So to me that's where you're getting the 'surprise' from some people (and certainly those with small children) about how graphic Dr. Strange is "For its Rating". As they don't realize just HOW GRAPHIC you have to be, to get an R rating "just" for violence.

    By their very nature, being superhero show/movies with fantasy-creature-characters - its probably 'near impossible' for them to get an "R" rating without throwing in some naked women/sex. No matter how violent or graphic they may get.

    (Not seen the movie yet so no idea how graphic we're talking - just commenting on people's reactions to the violence of pg13. Its also a whole other topic to discuss why anyone would bring a 'small child' to something that is suggesting 13 and up - and a whole commentary of the American immunity to violent images on tv, that its 'not a big deal' to do that in the first place. =D)
    Last edited by Koriani; 2022-05-11 at 08:45 PM.
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  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Now that you mentioned, it brings me back.

    It wasn't universe 616 the prime universe of the comics? and the mcu was supposed to be another with since all the changes?, i think it was universe 199999 or some shit like that.

    I personally thing it was bad idea to make the mcu the 6146 as well...
    This is a can of worms....I sometimes think they do it on purpose to stir controversy and discussion.

    On one side we have Feige confirming the official denomination is E-199999 years ago, on another side we have a producer of "Black Panther" telling us we are never ever going to see 616 T'Challa again , that if we ever see another T'Challa it would be from another universe meaning they are not gonna recast Chadwick Boseman ( the right thing to do) wich doesn't mean there's no Black Panther ( that's just the title of whoever gets to be Bast's avatar).

    So what it is? In the comics it's the Cpt. Britain corps the ones who sets the designation of the universes not the Illuminati and surely not an scientific working for them but there's no corps in the MCU so the key to understand this mess is : the MCU exist inside the comics universe. There's comics that presents us an universe with the exact sequence of events depicted in the MCU so they obviously needed a number and that is E199999 ( can't be a 616 because that's the main universe and in that universe killing Obadiah Stane wasn't the first thing Stark did).

    That relation is not biyective: there's no comic universe inside the MCU ( and probably never). So if you look from the comic perspective main universe is E616 and MCU is E199999 but from the film perspective main universe is E616.

    In the end it doesn't matter, Christine's words made the two designations equivalent and we will probably use it as the same thing in the future but we can see why they did it: as a reference for fans 616 is synonymous of main universe, it means the core of the stories so it's less confusing than E199999 ( what happens if we suddenly finds an E616 in the MCU?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Overall I am a bit disappointed that the movie, with all it's multiverse premise, did not have bigger consequences for entire MCU.

    And I wonder what multiverse finale of this phase could be?


    There's consequences. The most important stated by Reed: your fuckityfuck of multiversal realities create incursions, create ovelapping of realities where one or both are destroyed. This is going to be the backbone of this chapter as the gems were for previous chapter.

    The finale is difficult to tell , not even Marvel know right now with detail but given the precedent they like to take the bone of an story and give it another flesh: the summary of the Infinity Saga is the same in comics and films , Thanos try to gather all the gems, heroes try to prevent that, Thanos wins, Thanos erase half universe, heroes gather the stones and unfuck the universe. Same summary but the details are completely different so based on that this chapter will be Battleworld and everyone versus Doom I guess.


  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    Well that rule is confusing. So before a media release, if you're talking about online leaks, books, other 'canon' (I guess?) sources - you are SUPPOSE to use spoiler tags. So even if the books' been out five years?
    Yes, this is refering to situations where say a movie is being adapted from a book. In a thread specifically for the movie it is very possible some people haven't read the book. In which case you are supposed to use spoiler tags. If you want to specifically discuss the book there might already be a thread for it or you could make one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    Then the bolded part. But then RIGHT AFTER the bolded part it then says "If you want to discuss spoilers, use the tags." So if you spoil it no tags, but if you discuss those spoilers later- use a tag?

    Just saying - that wording at the end just negates the sentence before it? *shrugs*
    More of incorrect phrasing on my part when I typed that I guess. "If you want to discuss things that should be spoiler tagged, use the tags"

    Overwhelmingly people seem to have always got what the rules are here. Just occasionally someone would come into a thread for a TV/Movie/Whatever after a new episode or the movie would come out. Then complain that 90% of what everyone typed wasn't tagged, despite that obviously being a backwards way of doing things.

  14. #374
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faltemer View Post
    More of incorrect phrasing on my part when I typed that I guess. "If you want to discuss things that should be spoiler tagged, use the tags"

    Overwhelmingly people seem to have always got what the rules are here. Just occasionally someone would come into a thread for a TV/Movie/Whatever after a new episode or the movie would come out. Then complain that 90% of what everyone typed wasn't tagged, despite that obviously being a backwards way of doing things.
    Oh was that your phrasing after the bolded - or the rule's phrasing? I had taken it to mean it was part of the original rule as typed (and no I didn't go look - ha).

    Because no, that's not obvious to me. What's obvious to me is - "If you want to discuss things that should be spoiler tagged, use the tag." To me - within the first few weeks of something coming out, it "Should be spoiler tagged." Its not a backwards way of doing things - even when you jump into a thread mid-season to talk about the episode from last night. To me, if it was JUST last night, yeah, you should still spoiler tag - as a polite, nice person, for the next guy who may not have seen it yet. So its still under 'things that should be spoilered." If its a month old - ok - fine.

    I mean I do that in person - when I go to a friend, before I start talking about the movie that's been out (even a month), I ask them if they've seen it and adjust what I say accordingly. Obviously we can't account for everyone's schedules on a forum, just seems like something where the more 'logical' rule would be to spoiler tag for a week (as an example) and not 'immediately upon airing - no longer need spoilers.'

    *shrugs* We don't have to debate or anything; don't mean or want to sidetrack the thread. I just noted that /if/ that was the original rule as given - that last bit, that last sentence, seem to negate what came before it and could perhaps benefit from a clarification or rewrite.

    I get what YOU are saying - I just happen to default to the side of 'being nice for the next guy', even if its been a few weeks. But then as someone who never watches tv 'live', and rarely watches shows the day they come out - I also usually fall into the group of people being 'spoiled' even a month later. But I DO read threads knowing that in mind and trying to 'skim' as much as possible between the discussion posts.

    Again - dont mean to derail or get into a lengthy argument about it. Let's move on. (And here I am in a thread for a movie I've not seen as I have been since page one - lol - so far avoided *most* spoilers that were not marked.)
    Koriani - Guardians of Forever - BM Huntard on TB; Kharmic - Worgen Druid - TB
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  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Spoiler: 
    Technically speaking, it wasn't the first time Blackbolt has shown up in the MCU. I just wish that it was.



    Collapse lets you use formatting tags, links, and media.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Is it still canon though? Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. isn't anymore and it's also created by ABC.
    It’s all canon in the multiverse. That was kinda the point of them talking about different Earth numbers in this film.

  16. #376
    Elemental Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Is it still canon though? Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. isn't anymore and it's also created by ABC.
    Agents of SHIELD didn't really go off-canon until things got all wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey. It definitely absorbed the impact of CA:TWS on SHIELD, and incorporated the Sokovian Accords from A:AoU. By the time it ignored the Snap from A:IW, the cast had already jumped around in time quite a bit, so I guess the best way to deal with it is to imagine that it became a branching timeline at that point.


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  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Darn, did not expect Wanda to turn into such a psychopath so quickly. Didn't feel very believable to suddenly go this much ham and brutally kill people left and right no probs. And OMEGALUL Tony Stark was right all along in Civil War. Overall, movie was not that great and did not seem to push general narrative much. It was competent enough, we got a new char that can jump multis, perfect for the current setting and Strange got some new powers, but I kinda expected more from the title alone. Horror and gore elements were nice addition, and Bruce Campbell cameo was great. Such a Sam Raimi move.
    Yeah, her turning into a complete murderous maniac was unexpected. Like the Darkhold obviously corrupted her, but, it was narrated as if she was supposed to just genuinely believe in what she was doing -- getting her kids.

    Would have been a lot more believable, for me at least, if she was trying to *save* her children from horrible deaths, instead of simply killing her alternwte self to abduct them. Like show her getting terrible visions of Gargantos swallowing the kids. But then have the reveal be that he created the visions.

    Also. Where were Vision and Pietro??????

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    Yeah, her turning into a complete murderous maniac was unexpected. Like the Darkhold obviously corrupted her, but, it was narrated as if she was supposed to just genuinely believe in what she was doing -- getting her kids.

    Would have been a lot more believable, for me at least, if she was trying to *save* her children from horrible deaths, instead of simply killing her alternwte self to abduct them. Like show her getting terrible visions of Gargantos swallowing the kids. But then have the reveal be that he created the visions.

    Also. Where were Vision and Pietro??????
    Please forget that vision is alive in white visions body now, and just fucked off, but is certainly still alive. He is only the person that Wanda, you know loved so badly that she mind trap/torture thousands of people and created imaginary kids with, but naw fuck him just gotta get the kids back.

    That is my issue with phase 4, everything has to be bigger, but when you get to magic that literally bends/changes reality, the author/writers just make it do whatever they want, and it fucks with logic because so many issues could be solved easily, but aren't because it isn't dramatic/showy. Magic is fun when you are expressly told(and it is respected) what magic can't do, the limitations, the things to overcome, the price to pay.

    It is one of the massive fucking blunders from the Wheel of Time show where a character either completely resurrects or at minimum easily/freely heals a person grievously injured (eyes/body burned out bad). If you can heal death why would I care what happens because it can be reversed, and I lose interest when there are no stakes (aka multiverse where no one can truly die).

    Wish they had gone with a different story, going into multiverse/time travel requires a writer to be VERY smart and careful or it becomes nonsensical bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  19. #379
    Elemental Lord PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Please forget that vision is alive in white visions body now, and just fucked off, but is certainly still alive. He is only the person that Wanda, you know loved so badly that she mind trap/torture thousands of people and created imaginary kids with, but naw fuck him just gotta get the kids back.
    Alternately, she's already tried to get Vision back and failed. She's had more time to accept that she's lost him.

    And more importantly, this is the DarkHold's influence on her. Her dreams keep telling her that "her" kids are out there, somewhere. The dreams are not whispering to her about Vision, so maybe he's not out there for her to latch onto and obsess over.

    From a storytelling standpoint, it's one thing for her to convince herself that she can step into an alternate Wanda's shoes and be a mother to her children. But it's another thing to imagine doing the same thing to another Vision in addition to the two kids.


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  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Alternately, she's already tried to get Vision back and failed. She's had more time to accept that she's lost him.
    Except we aren't shown any of that, and from what we know she has been studying the darkhold the whole time, and completely forgot about the man she apparently loved so much to destroy thousands of peoples lives. The movie had some good things, plot was not one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    And more importantly, this is the DarkHold's influence on her. Her dreams keep telling her that "her" kids are out there, somewhere. The dreams are not whispering to her about Vision, so maybe he's not out there for her to latch onto and obsess over.

    From a storytelling standpoint, it's one thing for her to convince herself that she can step into an alternate Wanda's shoes and be a mother to her children. But it's another thing to imagine doing the same thing to another Vision in addition to the two kids.
    Press x to doubt, but whatever, we know for a fact vision is out there, we don't know what the darkhold supposedly said to drive her comically evil, and considering the way the writing has dropped from an already mediocre level I suspect the writers forgot about vision themselves.

    From a storytelling standpoint there are infinite easier ways to get children, including making some in many ways, or since the kids were never biologically hers and she is a war orphan herself I am sure there are many children in needed of an adopted mom she could have saved. The story in phase 4 has been very lackluster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

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