Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness

[Kyphael]

Fun movie, really glad Sam Raimi directed it. Reminded me of Evil Dead meets a superhero movie. Of course all the rumored cameos and leaks turned out to be a load of BS, which was expected, but it actually had even less cameos than I would have expected. Happy with what we got though. Favorite death was the spaghetti death, I legit laughed.

[Beefhammer]

Fun movie, really glad Sam Raimi directed it. Reminded me of Evil Dead meets a superhero movie. Of course all the rumored cameos and leaks turned out to be a load of BS, which was expected, but it actually had even less cameos than I would have expected. Happy with what we got though. Favorite death was the spaghetti death, I legit laughed.

I loved it but loved watching Black Bolt blow his own brains out. Fucking hate him and the Inhumans, so that was the high point of that fight for me.

- - - Updated - - -

You have yet to actually point out a "contradiction" or where it ignored anything. Please provide that. What you have done is point out you misunderstand and ignore what the movie and MCU told you, but that isn't the same as contradicting the MCU or ignoring it.

You are like those buzzfeed or similar sites that go "10 plot holes with X" and point out one actual plot hole that is so minor it didn't matter and the other 9 are not holes and are explained. Seriously, you're argument is the type of argument of the CinemaSins youtube channel.

It is not a plot hole when you are told why something happened and you do not like your answer. You can say the answer is "insufficient", but a movie does not need to explain everything in detail. Multiverse of Madness does not need to explain how the Darkhold impacts the reader, because the only way to do that is with unneeded exposition.

I'm sure it's wand realized the error of her ways at the end of WandaVision, despite the post credits scene of the last episode shows her in her Scarlet Witch outfit studying the Darkhold, clearly keeping her as the heel for the future.

- - - Updated - - -

Except we aren't shown any of that, and from what we know she has been studying the darkhold the whole time, and completely forgot about the man she apparently loved so much to destroy thousands of peoples lives. The movie had some good things, plot was not one of them.



Press x to doubt, but whatever, we know for a fact vision is out there, we don't know what the darkhold supposedly said to drive her comically evil, and considering the way the writing has dropped from an already mediocre level I suspect the writers forgot about vision themselves.

From a storytelling standpoint there are infinite easier ways to get children, including making some in many ways, or since the kids were never biologically hers and she is a war orphan herself I am sure there are many children in needed of an adopted mom she could have saved. The story in phase 4 has been very lackluster.

The fact that Agnes told her there is a chapter about how she is to rule the world innthe Darkhold should tell you why she's murderously evil. You don't get to be ruler of an entire planet by being nice.

You don't need it spelled out for you. Not to mention, we had multiple characters in MoM flat out say things like the Darkhold corrupts the reader. So really, the shock over her being dark and evil just comes off as people either not paying attention or people just not liking/wanting Wnada to be evil.

[Darththeo]

I'm sure it's wand realized the error of her ways at the end of WandaVision, despite the post credits scene of the last episode shows her in her Scarlet Witch outfit studying the Darkhold, clearly keeping her as the heel for the future.

Don't forget projecting a version of herself as a front if anyone walked up so they wouldn't see her studying the Darkhold.

[Skulltaker]

I'm sure it's wand realized the error of her ways at the end of WandaVision, despite the post credits scene of the last episode shows her in her Scarlet Witch outfit studying the Darkhold, clearly keeping her as the heel for the future.

Yeah, or she realized that if she tried to do somethink like this again the Avengers or whomever would show up, and therfor decided to find a better solution where she could be more ruthless. As she puts it in the movie, she tries the reasonable approach first. I didn't see much in WandaVision that led me to believe that she actually saw the error of her ways, more that she wasn't going to get what she wanted there, and didn't want to be cruel to normal people without a reason.

[Beefhammer]

Yeah, or she realized that if she tried to do somethink like this again the Avengers or whomever would show up, and therfor decided to find a better solution where she could be more ruthless. As she puts it in the movie, she tries the reasonable approach first. I didn't see much in WandaVision that led me to believe that she actually saw the error of her ways, more that she wasn't going to get what she wanted there, and didn't want to be cruel to normal people without a reason.

Yup. I mean it was all there yet people still act as if as if MoM ignored stuff.

[zEmini]

Finally saw MoM - I have been waiting patiently since DR Strange is my favorite MCU character. Movie was entertaining but I am beginning to find the power level of these characters reaching over the 9000 mark. What is next? Bullets made out of infinite stones? A villain who can fire entire universes out of his hands? I miss the more down to earth super heroes and villains. Sadly it is hard to put that genie back into the bottle when you got bad guys who can cross into other universes and destroy them.


B-

[PhaelixWW]

I miss the more down to earth super heroes and villains.

Hawkeye, for one, was excellent. Falcon and the Winter Soldier wasn't quite as good, but was also much lower stakes than many of the movies.

Movie-wise, I'm trying to think... It's probably Black Widow and Ant-Man & the Wasp that were the two most recent more low stakes, down-to-earth, less world-ending-storylines? So were Black Panther, Spider-Man: Homecoming, and Captain America: Civil War, to round out phase 3. Even Spider-Man: Far From Home is kinda borderline.

So I guess we had, like, 6.5 possible-world-ending movies and 4.5 not in phase 3. We're 4 to 1 so far in phase 4, but we have the TV shows now to also help fit the bill.

[Darththeo]

I miss the more down to earth super heroes and villains.

Most of the MCU movies aren't what I would call down to Earth.

Phase 1 was only Iron Man and Iron Man 2. You could argue Captain America and The Incredible Hulk, but that's pushing what I would consider down to "Earth" given the plot of Captain America and the main character in the Incredible Hulk. Thor there is a case for, but the main character is literally an alien that is so powerful that humans see him as a god. Arguably, Phase 1 was overall the most down to Earth which makes sense given it was set up for the connected universe. It is easier to have people buy in with smaller steps.
Phase 2 was only Iron Man 3, Winter Soldier, and Antman as the quantum stuff only happens at the end.
Phase 3 was Civil War, Homecoming and Far from Home.
Phase 4 currently only has Black Widow that fits that mold and that doesn't appear to be changing unless you include the television series.

[Aydinx2]

I enjoyed overall. It has some horror movie elements (the movie is still far from a horror movie) that I find refreshing. The trailer was a bit misleading which is good when it comes to not outing the whole plot of the movie.

I have only some small complaints though.
No Tom Cruise as the superior Ironman.
The Illuminati went out like little bitches.
No Wanda fighting Wanda.
No zombie Wanda.
No "things just got out of hand."
90's animated X-Men theme is the shit and it would be nice if they did the same to the Spider-Man theme.

I don't get these complaints. They're not complaints, there a list of things you wanted in the movie but didn't get.
The only real complaint is about The Illuminati, but you're forgetting one important thing: Marvel has a history of destroying comic books history just for a cameo. This isn't new.

- - - Updated - - -

Since this movie effectively had ZERO impact on the MCU, as everyone who died was from a different verse or "maybe" Wanda, who is a rediculous character that is best done away with at this point, I'm going to pretend that the movie went like this.

Opens on Dr Strange and Venezuela Chavez running from monster.
They try to escape and fail.
Monster catches up to them.
Canada Chavez makes a truly heroic sacrifice and tells Dr Strange that she is the only one of her in the multiverse, and that if they cannot escape, he has to kill her.
Dr Strange, being the smarty he is, sees how important it is to not let powers like Cuba Chavez has be taken by anyone. He opens a portal at her neck that removes her head.
He then turns and is killed by the monster, knowing that he saved the multiverse.

Our Dr Strange goes to find Wanda, prepared for her power by working it out in advance with Wong.
He traps her and drains the power of the Mind Stone from her, leaving her mortal and normal.
Dr Strange takes pity on her and finds White Vision.
White Vision and Wanda live out her life in peace somewhere well away from people.

Everyone else goes on about their lives.

The End.

If they had actually made the movie as terrible as you just described I would've joined ISIS.
Also, why does the movie need to have impact on the MCU? This isn't supposed to be a T.V. show. There are no "filler episodes".

You should watch the movie because you wanted to see the movie, not because you wanted to see how this affects other movies that don't exist yet. If this is what the MCU has boiled down to then I agree with people who say it has killed moviemaking.

If you want to know how a movie impacts other movies you can just read the plot on Wikipedia. No need to pay for a ticket.

- - - Updated - - -

Did anyone actually like America Whatever her name, seem rather bland, just another “believe in yourself” character..

That's the problem with Marvel Comics. Almost none of the characters in the comics are actually likeable. So when they take a character and accurately translate it to the movies, people don't like it.

The fact that almost none of the MCU is comic-accurate is why it is popular.

[HeatherRae]

It was a fun movie, but I was pretty disappointed in how they framed Wanda, and in that plotline in general. The funny thing is, Dr Strange felt a lot like an afterthought for much of the movie, but anywho.

Sam Raimi apparently told Rolling Stone he hadn't actually watched all of Wandavision, and it shows. You're free to disagree with me, but I found the transition from the Wanda we see at the end of Wandavision and the Wanda we see at the start of Dr Strange to be super jarring. I get it - the Darkhold corrupts. But is it so much to ask for us to see the corruption happen, rather than being told it happened?

It's just really wild to have the same woman who let her kids and husband fade into nothing because people she wasn't even related to and didn't really care about were being tortured in the process of her having her "perfect world"....just go on a killing spree so she can murder herself in another dimension and steal that woman's kids. And don't get me started about how Wanda, who literally just fended off a crazy witch trying to suck her powers out, goes right on to try to do the same fucking thing to America.

Honestly, at the end of the movie, to me it was like Wandavision just didn't exist as far as the director was concerned. Oh, sure, they had a reference or two to the show, but nothing that happened in Wandavision made any impact on Wanda, and her growth in that show was completely ignored.

[Ophenia]

And don't get me started about how Wanda, who literally just fended off a crazy witch trying to suck her powers out, goes right on to try to do the same fucking thing to America.

I really think I didn't understand that thing. It was shown that Agatha could suck another witch/sorcerer's power in WandaVision, and now apparently everyone can do that (Strange did try the same) ?
Like if that's a standard spell in every magician/sorcerer's toolkit in the MCU, why didn't Kaecilius try to do that with Mordo, Wong or Strange in Strange 1 ?

[PhaelixWW]

I get it - the Darkhold corrupts. But is it so much to ask for us to see the corruption happen, rather than being told it happened?

I mean... we do?

Don't get me wrong; the movie would probably have been better served to have at least some exposition towards this end, but I'm not entirely sure what it would look like.

Regardless, the effects of the DarkHold is legitimately shown to us through Agatha. And then, having bested Agatha at her own game, the end of WandaVision clearly shows Wanda fall right into the same trap.

I think people get too caught up on the supposed act of contrition that Wanda shows to Monica Rambeau near the end of WandaVision. Literally minutes later, we see the post-credits scene which should inform the viewer about the real state of affairs at the end of WandaVision.

The takeaway should be that Wanda, seeing how her grand experiment with Westview was beset by outside forces and forced into ruination, decides to hide away out of sight and pursue an alternate method. She's only pretending to be contrite and give up her plans because she also acknowledges that the Westview versions of Vision and her children weren't ultimately real enough. It just happens that the alernate method immediately starts to corrupt her and whisper to her in her children's voices, telling her that they're alive and need her to save them.

Honestly, at the end of the movie, to me it was like Wandavision just didn't exist as far as the director was concerned. Oh, sure, they had a reference or two to the show, but nothing that happened in Wandavision made any impact on Wanda, and her growth in that show was completely ignored.

Again, I think people vastly misinterpreted the end of WandaVision, for some unknown reason. What did you expect the effects of going full Scarlet Witch and reading the DarkHold were going to have on Wanda in between the end of WandaVision and DS:MoM?

Everyone who reads the DarkHold gets corrupted by it, even if some later fight off the corruption and renounce the book. It shouldn't really have to be spelled out to people because the contextual clues are all there. The only reason I feel like a tiny bit of exposition might have been useful in the movie was because it was separate from the show.

- - - Updated - - -

I really think I didn't understand that thing. It was shown that Agatha could suck another witch/sorcerer's power in WandaVision, and now apparently everyone can do that (Strange did try the same) ?
Like if that's a standard spell in every magician/sorcerer's toolkit in the MCU, why didn't Kaecilius try to do that with Mordo, Wong or Strange in Strange 1 ?

Who says that everyone can do the same? Agatha, Wanda, and Strange are not your average spellcasters, after all. It's also possible that it's information gleaned from the DarkHold, as all three have read from it. (Presumably Defender Strange might have had a similar opportunity at some point in his past.)

[PrimiOne]

I get it - the Darkhold corrupts. But is it so much to ask for us to see the corruption happen, rather than being told it happened?

You saw it but you just didn't pay attention.

It's the first scene after the destruction of the Utopian Parallel: we see Wanda playing with her kids and suddenly they vanish and Wanda wakes up.

Later she tells Strange ( quoting roughly from memory) : " I see my kids. I see our life together. Every night I dream the same dream and every morning I wake up to this nightmare...again".

She dreams with her kids every-single-night. That's the Darkhold, that's the corruption.....you are both shown and told how the corruption happens because since the end of Wandavision and her first contact with the Darkhold to the begining of MoM she is having these nightmares projected from the Darkhold and C'Thon.

So I don't really know what "see how the corruption happens" means to you.....you need a CGI of C'Thon whispering Wanda in her ear and her eyes turning red or something? Is that more effective than showing us and telling us all the weeks/months from Westview to MoM is a recurring nightmare?

Well I'm not gonna tell anyone what their opinion should be but I have one too and in mine Wanda and Elizabeth Olsen are of the few things the movie doesn't deserve criticism. Olsen is simply espectacular in the not so easy task of making believable such a huge transition of character ( that , again , is explained).The "Next time it won't be me...it will be the Scarlet Witch" could have been an incredible ridiculous moment in other actor and other character but in this actor and character...works, totally. You just believe it the character will be scary.

We MCU fans have been complaining about the absolute lack of coolness of villains (Taskmaster....ugggghhh) with a really few exceptions, that in my personal opinion is intended - Marvel just don't want them to outshine the hero , and this movie gives us one of the best villains the MCU has ever show. She is scary , she is determined, you empatize with her and the mindfucking that is happening in her brain....

Wanda is the best thing of the movie and the redeeming quality than makes me give the movie a 7/10 instead a 5/10...but that's just my opinion.

[PhaelixWW]

...you need a CGI of C'Thon whispering Wanda in her ear and her eyes turning red or something?

*cough cough*:

Also, rewatch the very last mid-credits scene of WandaVision, too, for that matter, to see the moment the DarkHold starts whispering to her about her kids being alive and needing her help.

Or, you know what, I'll make this easy for you:

Spoiler: 

It was actually shown (minus the CGI Chthon).

[Ophenia]

Who says that everyone can do the same? Agatha, Wanda, and Strange are not your average spellcasters, after all. It's also possible that it's information gleaned from the DarkHold, as all three have read from it. (Presumably Defender Strange might have had a similar opportunity at some point in his past.)

The other sorceress in Agatha's flashback in Salem tried to do the same to her as far as I remember - but it's unclear whether they've obtained that kind of knowledge in the Darkhold - and Wanda has also "re-taken" her magic from Agatha in WandaVision's finale before obtaining the DarkHold, this one might be a different thing though

I really don't think that Defender Strange had access to the DarkHold, it would have corrupted him otherwise, and he probably wouldn't look for the Book of Vishanti if he had it

[Clone]

I don't get these complaints. They're not complaints, there a list of things you wanted in the movie but didn't get.
The only real complaint is about The Illuminati, but you're forgetting one important thing: Marvel has a history of destroying comic books history just for a cameo. This isn't new.

And I'm complaining since I didn't get it, hence complaints.

[PhaelixWW]

The other sorceress in Agatha's flashback in Salem tried to do the same to her as far as I remember

If you rewatch the scene, you'll notice that the flow of magic is going from the coven towards Agatha, even before she takes control and pulls their magic into her. That implies that they weren't trying to draw hers out, but rather that they were attacking her with some spell. Indeed, it appears as though she's being burned from the inside out, which makes a certain kind of sense, given the stake to which she was bound.

Spoiler: 

...and Wanda has also "re-taken" her magic from Agatha in WandaVision's finale before obtaining the DarkHold, this one might be a different thing though

Yeah. Notably, she only reclaims her own power, rather than stripping Agatha's from her (which would kill her, as it did the coven and would have done to America Chavez in the movie).

I really don't think that Defender Strange had access to the DarkHold, it would have corrupted him otherwise, and he probably wouldn't look for the Book of Vishanti if he had it

It's been shown that people can be saved from the DarkHold's corruption if they stop reading from it, though. The movie even gives us evidence that at least one other Strange has done so. Who's to say that Defender Strange wasn't in a similar situation in the past?


Also, as an aside: rewatching the end of WandaVision just made me realize that they telegraphed her corruption even more than I had noticed. I mean, Agatha literally foreshadows what's going to happen:

Spoiler: 

And then the final line, with the illustration of the Scarlet Witch in the DarkHold making way to show Wanda in the background in the same spot.

Spoiler: 

Wanda tries to deny it at the time, but by the end of WandaVision, she's fully on that path, embracing her Scarlet Witch persona and reading from the DarkHold. And yet people still want to say: "We didn't see this corruption coming! How did this happen?!"

[Fencers]

The movie is hitting Streaming and PVOD in the 45-day window. June 11th.

[PhaelixWW]

The movie is hitting Streaming and PVOD in the 45-day window. June 11th.

Source? The only site I see with this date is just speculating. I have a hard time believing that they'd push it to streaming that quickly with a box office outcome so strong. Doing so with SC&L10R was one thing, but DS:MoM is over $700m worldwide in less than two weeks. Domestically, DS:MoM has done $297m in 11 days while SC&L10R only made $147m in the same time frame and didn't perform as well internationally, either.

[Ausr]

I thoroughly enjoyed the movie today. Enjoyed the Raimi take on a Dr Strange movie and it seemed to fit him than other heroes they could've assigned him to.

My sister and her family said they didn't enjoy it as it didn't remind them of the first Dr. Strange movie. Which is odd to me because this is shit Dr. Strange pretty much handles in the comics.