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  1. #21
    A Zereth Mortis like system that covers all 10.0 zones, then when doing world content you can find and open 'timerifts' which teleport you to a solo version of any preexisting WoW dungeon. To fight through it getting anima-like powers on the way.

    It rewards a piece of gear which has WQ ilvl, but also has a diablo-like legendary power that only works in outdoors and these solo 'timerifts'. Plus some materials for complexity progression akin to m+.

    When a patch drops you can disenchant new gear to update the ilvl of old one to relevant WQ gear ilvl so you don't have to go not same legendary power again. But patch should add a bunch of new powers to acquire.

  2. #22
    I don't think it played out.

    I'd like them to focus on what made WoW strong to begin with - raids and dungeons, instead of wasting time doing shallow copies of FOT(last)Y games.

    If they'd invest that time the dumped into Torghast into raids/dungeons and outdoor content - maybe SL would not be stuck in the mud like it's now, maybe we'd get patch 9.1 with twice content outside raid and -2 months delivery.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  3. #23
    I would say yes, as long as they put the effort in to balance it. Torghast was the best content they ever added to the game in my opinion, before they ruined it with timing and scoring systems. It would be hard to justify it as a standard end game path though, as imbalanced as it is.

  4. #24
    Torghast is roguelite, yeah, not a full roguelike - but any game implemented into wow wouldn't be a "pure" example of a genre, so roguelite is fine to aim for.

    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Yeah, but you should understand, that it should be done Diablo-style. Not Torghast-style. Because, you know, usual rogue-like is challenge just for the sake of challenge. And we play RPG. Character progression - is our motivation to play.
    Torghast is sorta like that? You don't *get* gear from it, but difficulty is most certainly affected by the gear you do have. The next step would be to make Torghast gear (or whatever the next iteration would be named, probably need a generic name for it as well). I'd imagine it could have gone up to 233 in patch 9.1. Maybe all the way to 246 or 252 if the top gear dropped off boss fights on par with Legion TM Mage Tower.

    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    I would say yes, as long as they put the effort in to balance it. Torghast was the best content they ever added to the game in my opinion, before they ruined it with timing and scoring systems. It would be hard to justify it as a standard end game path though, as imbalanced as it is.
    I have to agree that adding a score system made things worse (the penalty for time loss is so weak that I don't think it can really be called a 'timer', it just pretends it has one).

    - - - Updated - - -

    I think one requirement for solo to become a "fourth pillar" is a) scaleable, challenging content - m+ being the most obvious example, but rated pvp and raids also gets harder and more rewarding as you get better - and b) having an actual loot system that lets you progress player power as you go, ideally somewhat self-contained so that while you can bring in gear from the other categories, it's neither required nor ideal.

  5. #25
    No.

    Because it's a MMO, not a single-player game.
    Classes aren't balanced in 1v1.

  6. #26
    theres a difference between "group content" and "social content". Raids, pvp and m+ are group content but they arent social. hell in many cases they are basically solo content as you can treat your fellow human players as bots as it is and no one has to talk at all. solo content is unneeded. social content is desperately needed.

  7. #27
    I'd love that. That was the whole reason i came back for SL because i hoped they'd do just that with Torghast.
    I really liked that in anarchy online they had mission terminals, you could generate missions, you could scale the level, each one had a set piece of equipment you'd get if you kill the endboss and each mission was a randomly generated dungeon. CoH had something similar. I enjoyed doing those missions, always felt like you were doing something in the world, you fight through a fun dungeon and get a piece of equipment at the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    Only if there is perma-death
    I wouldn't mind perma-death since you would get meta-unlocks that make your new chars stronger and stronger.

  8. #28
    I would much rather have them focus more on the already existing pillars instead of spreading themselves thin. Looking back, I would rather have a few more dungeons than torghast.

    That’s basically my hopes for the next expansion. Focus more on the basics. Focus on classes, not on borrowed power. Focus on dungeons and new interesting m+ affixes (that replace old annoying ones), not on some half-assed expansion feature. Focus on cool unique rewards, not on dozens of recolors

  9. #29
    Mythic+ itself was the first really successful endgame activity added to WoW, and it had several iterations with challenge modes before it got there. There's no doubt the game is better for it.

    There's no reason why a roguelike sort of thing couldn't be the same. Torghast is frickin' awful, but it's just the first draft.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    No.

    Because it's a MMO, not a single-player game.
    Classes aren't balanced in 1v1.
    Torghast (or any system like it) isn't 1v1, it's solo. There's no need for balance as long as they can all individually do it reasonably well, it's fine if it's a bit more challenging on some classes and more faceroll on others.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Soeroah View Post
    I'd like them to make solo play in general the fourth pillar, with roguelike being a part of that.
    This. Something like solo island expeditions or torghast as the replayable progression content and then a few challenge mode pieces like mage tower or twisting corridors for special rewards.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Torghast (or any system like it) isn't 1v1, it's solo. There's no need for balance as long as they can all individually do it reasonably well, it's fine if it's a bit more challenging on some classes and more faceroll on others.
    Yes. But by "1v1" I meant that no class is the same.

    They had to fix the Torghast a few times to actually make it somehow balanced... though it still isn't.
    For example: Rogues had really big problems in the beginning(their survivability was medicore at best, and some of the anima powers were pretty weak compared to others), while Blood DKs were just facerolling the whole things.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Yes. But by "1v1" I meant that no class is the same.

    They had to fix the Torghast a few times to actually make it somehow balanced... though it still isn't.
    For example: Rogues had really big problems in the beginning(their survivability was medicore at best, and some of the anima powers were pretty weak compared to others), while Blood DKs were just facerolling the whole things.
    Yes, but that is true of any content. There are always going to be adjustments being made even in all levels of group content. The point is that it's fine if blood can very easily clear the thing and rogues find it more difficult as long as rogues can complete it in low end gear and moderate skill. Because it is a solo experience it doesn't really matter that someone else doing it on a different class might burn through it faster, because you aren't in competition or playing against each other, and there's no danger of being benched because someone else is more optimal.

  14. #34
    Torghast is interesting, because the worst, most annoying solo classes like Elemental and mages get amazing anima buffs in there, while the best soloers like BM hunters get essentially nothing at all. A better solution would be to make everybody feel like powerful golden gods with a bunch of anima buffs, but it's certainly an interesting change of pace for my BM hunter to really suck rocks soloing somewhere. Sure as hell doesn't make me want to do torghast on him, though.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Yriel View Post
    I'd love that. That was the whole reason i came back for SL because i hoped they'd do just that with Torghast.
    I really liked that in anarchy online they had mission terminals, you could generate missions, you could scale the level, each one had a set piece of equipment you'd get if you kill the endboss and each mission was a randomly generated dungeon. CoH had something similar. I enjoyed doing those missions, always felt like you were doing something in the world, you fight through a fun dungeon and get a piece of equipment at the end.



    I wouldn't mind perma-death since you would get meta-unlocks that make your new chars stronger and stronger.
    It just isn't a game designed for that...

    Different genres use different rule sets for a reason it just doesn't pan out well forcing it.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Torghast is interesting, because the worst, most annoying solo classes like Elemental and mages get amazing anima buffs in there, while the best soloers like BM hunters get essentially nothing at all. A better solution would be to make everybody feel like powerful golden gods with a bunch of anima buffs, but it's certainly an interesting change of pace for my BM hunter to really suck rocks soloing somewhere. Sure as hell doesn't make me want to do torghast on him, though.
    If it makes you feel any worse, Demonology Warlocks get insanely powerful buffs to go from "Excellent" at soloing outside to "Unbelievably Powerful" inside

    After 2-3 floors you just walk your demon through and it solos everything without breaking a sweat, including the bonus level at the end from getting a flawless run

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Schizoide View Post
    Torghast is interesting, because the worst, most annoying solo classes like Elemental and mages get amazing anima buffs in there, while the best soloers like BM hunters get essentially nothing at all. A better solution would be to make everybody feel like powerful golden gods with a bunch of anima buffs, but it's certainly an interesting change of pace for my BM hunter to really suck rocks soloing somewhere. Sure as hell doesn't make me want to do torghast on him, though.
    Mages are annoying solo wise? Long time mage and that's news to me. What makes them annoying?

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Yes, but that is true of any content. There are always going to be adjustments being made even in all levels of group content. The point is that it's fine if blood can very easily clear the thing and rogues find it more difficult as long as rogues can complete it in low end gear and moderate skill. Because it is a solo experience it doesn't really matter that someone else doing it on a different class might burn through it faster, because you aren't in competition or playing against each other, and there's no danger of being benched because someone else is more optimal.
    Oh, then we must've mistaken ourselves.

    I meant the solo content as something like "gear dropping"/progression thing. Like M+, raiding or PvP.
    Yeah, as long as it's just fun content where everyone can play at their own pace it's fine.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    No.

    Because it's a MMO, not a single-player game.
    Classes aren't balanced in 1v1.
    There's nothing whatsoever about (M)assively (M)ultiplayer (O)nline that demands a social game. It's always there to the extent that developers do content for it but it's not a requirement. For my money they would do well to provide more content that has flexible requirements for participation: stuff that can be run solo, with a friend or friends, or like now with set group sizes.

    This notion that MMO forces social play is nonsense and needs to stop. It should always be there as an option and it has to be said that most games are more fun if you run with friends. The problems arise when you are playing with total strangers that you'll never likely encounter again. It excuses bad behavior, it's not 'social' in any positive sense of the word, and causes more issues than it solves. And don't answer this with any bullshit about how you knew everyone on your old realms. You knew a few that were reliable outside of a guild and a few that were never to be engaged with but realms were not the small tiny communities that everyone likes to think they were unless your realm was fairly depopulated to begin with.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2021-12-23 at 07:41 PM.
    "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game" — Soren Johnson (Civilization III/IV designer)

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Oh, then we must've mistaken ourselves.

    I meant the solo content as something like "gear dropping"/progression thing. Like M+, raiding or PvP.
    Yeah, as long as it's just fun content where everyone can play at their own pace it's fine.
    I mean, maybe I'm wrong. I just assumed OP's gear dropping meant like, the equivalent of catchup or LFR gear but through something like torghast, not a solo progression system on par with the gear drops from highend keys or raid-raiding.

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