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  1. #61
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    That'd certainly hushen the dark ranger crowd, a demon hunter ranged spec.
    I bet it'd "hushen" them as much as the WotLK warlock "hushen" the demon hunter crowd. >.>
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  2. #62
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    except you learned nothing from your main post. Alchemist and tinker are too close to professions and thus rolled into them. This has been done over and over and even told by blizz it doesn't fit the fantasy. It's over.
    That statement isn't supported by the facts. First and foremost, the professions are based on the WC3 item system. If you look at the various items offered by shops and merchants in WC3, they align nearly perfectly with the profession system in WoW. In short, the goal of professions were to allow players to imitate the shops of WC3 and produce items for player use. Your assertion that Alchemist and Tinker heroes were too close to the professions and were thus "rolled into them" is shown to be false because none of the Alchemist or Tinker abilities appear in either profession, but are used by NPCs in WoW.

    That said, if you have a statement from Blizzard that supports your claim, please post it. It will only help the discussion.

    Otherwise, blood mage, blademaster, shadow hunter, dread lord, crypt lord, warden, firelord, pit lord, and naga sea witch are all heroes, where are they? It's over
    Blood Mage: Rolled into the Mage and Warlock classes.
    Blademaster: Rolled into the Warrior class
    Shadow Hunter: Rolled into the Shaman class.
    Crypt Lord: Rolled into the DK, Warrior, and (strangely) Druid classes
    Warden: Rolled into the Rogue class with Blink going to Mages
    Firelord: Rolled into Warlock and Mage classes with Shaman getting Fire Elemental as an ability
    Pit Lord: Rolled into the Warlock class with Warriors getting Cleave
    Naga Sea Witch: Rolled into the Hunter, Shaman and Mage classes.

    your biases are hilarious. Warden is as close to rogue as tinker is as close to the engineering profession, as well as your other examples being no where close to their mark. While blizzard logic they think this all works this way, this is exactly why you're never getting your wanna be gundam hero in this mmo
    WC3 Warden uses Shadow abilities for quick surprise attacks, and Daggers laced with poison. Sound familiar?

  3. #63
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Pocket Factory: rolled into engineering with abilities such as "box of bombs", Ammo boxes, and exploding sheep
    Cluster of Rockets: rolled into literally rocket gloves as well as varying other missile bombs
    Engineering Upgrade: Literally in the game to give you varying boosts such as rocket boots, the parachute undercoat to capes, and others.
    The argument that this;

    Box of Bombs
    Item Level 28
    "Contains Saronite Bombs. Lots of them."
    <Right Click to Open>
    Is the same as this;

    Pocket Factory
    Creates a factory which automatically constructs Clockwerk Goblins. Clockwerk Goblins explode upon death, causing damage to nearby enemy units.
    Is so thoroughly debunked that there is no point in debating it anymore, and I will not do so in this thread.

    And also no, by your logic, since there's no "ult" of those classes rolled into other classes, they're not really in game. Sound familiar?
    I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about here.

  4. #64
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Yes, and summoning infernals is supposed to destroy terrain around it. Your point? The changed a bit of their lore making it that they learn abilities from the demons they absorb. This could make their 3rd spec magic casters
    Again: not really.

    Because any non-melee spec is a departure from the concept presented in WC3, and a huge departure from how the concept was presented in Burning Crusade. Every demon hunter wielded warglaives. No demon hunter wielded anything else. All demon hunters were melee combatants. None was ranged.

    And your comparison to "summon infernals destroys the terrain" is not a valid comparison, because in that case we're then not talking about class design, instead now talking about world features, such as "destructible terrain". And summoning infernals does make a call back to "destroying terrain" anyways as the impact area on the ground is temporarily shown with fel green cracks when the infernal lands as part of the summoning animation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  5. #65
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    I think you lack vision. And on purpose.
    We know your claim is false already due to Night elven Dark Rangers.
    Night Elven Dark Rangers didn't appear until BFA, and they didn't possess banshee powers like the hero unit did.

    Anyone that follows, and potentially follows, Elune can become her Priest. Hence, why creatures from other worlds could turn into Night Warriors. The gender assignment is irrelevant whatsoever in this day and age. If you didn't know already, the gender restrictions were lifted after the Third War. That's why you can play as a male Night elf Priest. But, as usual, you're "blind" on purpose.
    Just by the number of classes you named, you showed how misrepresented it is and how much it deserves its own class.
    Okay, but then what class are you creating?

    Yes, you're creating a Priest. We already have a Priest class.

    Wrong again. There are already Lightforged Blademasters, and Ankoan ones. One ability does not account for an entire class (see: Metamorphosis).
    LF Draenei didn't appear until Legion, and we can't play as Ankoans, so for the vast majority of WoW's history, a Blademaster was orc only. Further, while the warrior class doesn't possess all of the Blademaster's abilities, the Warrior covers the gist of the concept.

    Wrong again. There are already Human and Saberon Shadow Hunters.
    Once again, 2 abilities and a toy does not constitute an entire class (see: Death Coil, Immolate).
    3 abilities actually, since Searing totem was in fact Serpent Ward. Also we can't play as Saberons, and the abilities are highly Shaman-centric. For example, there's no reason Big Bad Voodoo won't eventually appear as a Shaman spell.


    Hence, why no one believed Demon Hunter would become a playable class, let alone the April's Fools joke class, the Pandaren Brewmaster. And yet, here we are. How ironic
    Actually a lot of people believed Demon Hunter would become playable. I have no idea where you're getting the notion that NO ONE thought that DHs would become a class.

    Again i ask: why not just paint the Hunter green like you suggested all those years for the Dark Ranger?
    We're not talking about an addition to the Hunter class, we were talking about a 3rd spec for Demon Hunters.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    You're either being disingenuous or we just need to stop this conversation because you literally can't understand.

    Lets take
    Crypt Lord:
    Impale- Slams the ground with the Crypt Lord's massive claws, shooting spiked tendrils out in a straight line, dealing damage and hurling enemy ground units into the air in their wake. (no class has this or anything close)

    Spiked Carapace:
    The Crypt Lord forms barbed layers of chitinous armor that increases its defense and returns damage to enemy melee attackers. (no class has this)

    Carrion Beetles:
    The Crypt Lord progenerates 1 Carrion Beetle from a target corpse to attack the Crypt Lord's enemies. Beetles are permanent but only 5 can be controlled at a time. (no class has this)

    Locust Swarm:
    Creates a swarm of angry locusts that bite and tear at nearby enemy units. As they chew the enemy flesh, they convert it into a substance that restores hit points to the Crypt Lord when they return. (no class has this)

    Okay so you utterly failed here as there's nothing even in spirit for what these are in units. However those are in the game and have not been debunked, so your little hand wave there does nothing. Again, your biased af and this is done and over as again, even blizzard tells you no
    Since the Crypt Lord was a giant bug, obviously its abilities couldn't be translated 1:1 within the WoW classes, since it's abilities were based on it being a giant bug. That said, a version of Impale went to the Warrior class and Locust Swarm ended up in the classes in two forms; The DK version was Unholy Blight, the Druid version was Insect Swarm (the NPC version of Insect Swarm was in fact called Locust Swarm).

  6. #66
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    tell ya what sweetcheeks,
    Stop being condescensing. It only makes you look bad.

    tell me how monk isn't a far departure from brewmaster.
    Easy: the brewmaster concept is not an incredibly narrow concept such as the demon hunter, and the class is called monk, not "brewmaster". The brewmaster concept is a part of the class, not the whole class itself.

    Also infernals being able to destroy terrain wasn't just a "feature" that was a main component of them.
    A RTS game's mechanics are not the same as a MMORPG game's mechanics. In WC3, my paladin could destroy buildings with his hammer. I can't do that in WoW. In WC3, I can harvest the trees to create paths. I cannot do that in WoW. And for obvious reasons, since "destructible terrain" is not a class feature.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2021-12-29 at 11:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  7. #67
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    I think they ones saying they want Dark Rangers, want to play as a Dark Ranger... just my guess though.
    We can use the same logic for anything. Engineering fulfills the tinker role for SOME players. Which also has nothing to do with people wanting an actual tinker class.
    Well its not really the same logic. A person wanting to play as a Dark Ranger can roll a Void Elf to resemble Sylvanas, go Marksman Hunter to get the feel of a dark Hunter without a pet, and can even obtain Sylvanas' bow and quiver in a Raid and get 2 Dark Ranger abilities. People who would want to play as a Tinker can't get anywhere near that close.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Impale did not go to warrior as they don't have a ranged physical ability where they launch an enemy into the air, locust swarm is not like unholy blight nor is it like insect swarm. However those bombs are very much like those abilities. Either admit you're biased and refuse agree to anything less than your little sonichu obsession come to life, or we're done here chris-chan
    I'll just leave this here;

    https://www.wowhead.com/spell=54022/locust-swarm
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Insect_Swarm

  8. #68
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    And proof you didn't read either, rofl. Enjoy your life chris chan, we're completely done. You've proven you're literally beyond reasoning with
    Who???

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That statement isn't supported by the facts. First and foremost, the professions are based on the WC3 item system. If you look at the various items offered by shops and merchants in WC3, they align nearly perfectly with the profession system in WoW. In short, the goal of professions were to allow players to imitate the shops of WC3 and produce items for player use. Your assertion that Alchemist and Tinker heroes were too close to the professions and were thus "rolled into them" is shown to be false because none of the Alchemist or Tinker abilities appear in either profession, but are used by NPCs in WoW.

    That said, if you have a statement from Blizzard that supports your claim, please post it. It will only help the discussion.



    Blood Mage: Rolled into the Mage and Warlock classes.
    Blademaster: Rolled into the Warrior class
    Shadow Hunter: Rolled into the Shaman class.
    Crypt Lord: Rolled into the DK, Warrior, and (strangely) Druid classes
    Warden: Rolled into the Rogue class with Blink going to Mages
    Firelord: Rolled into Warlock and Mage classes with Shaman getting Fire Elemental as an ability
    Pit Lord: Rolled into the Warlock class with Warriors getting Cleave
    Naga Sea Witch: Rolled into the Hunter, Shaman and Mage classes.



    WC3 Warden uses Shadow abilities for quick surprise attacks, and Daggers laced with poison. Sound familiar?
    Kevin Jordan streams on Twitch sporadically, and I've chatted with him while he is streaming quite a few times. I cannot wait until he is on again so I can ask him about this and post the clip for you so that you will finally stop.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    ...So this sort of explains why something like Warden, PotM, or Dark Rangers didn't make the cut. They were too race-specific. Instead they merged related concepts into 9 major classes... Also interesting that one of the original devs felt that there wasn't a need for more classes after the original 9...
    I feel that if each race modified classes substantially... then and only then you wouldn't need more classes. For instance take the race specific priest abilities from Vanilla... 2 spells were different for each race that could be priest (Forsaken: Touch of Weakness/ Devouring Plague vs Dwarf: Desperate Prayer/ Fear Ward)... but what if it were more? What if instead of specs you gained racial bonus abilities.

    An example would be Forsaken choosing Priest and along with the base priest spells they gained in essence the Shadow spec spells. Forsaken Priest would never be Holy or Discipline... that is what Priest means to Forsaken. In this scenario adding additional races would shake up and in effect change classes enough based solely on those racially specific spells added... new classes would not be needed as much or as often. A Forsaken Hunter would be a Dark Ranger... an Orc Hunter would be the melee Survival... Blood Elf Mages would be fire Mages/ Blood Mages... only entirely new concepts that had absolutely no overlap with an existing class, would warrant a new class to be added.

    It is an intriguing idea and gives weight to your racial choice and at this point in the games life might even seem like a great direction but keep in mind what WoW was in the early days. Playing one character to max level was an incredible feat. There was no race change options... and it took a long time to level. In retrospect I see why they did not choose this path forward.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  11. #71
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Kevin Jordan streams on Twitch sporadically, and I've chatted with him while he is streaming quite a few times. I cannot wait until he is on again so I can ask him about this and post the clip for you so that you will finally stop.
    Please do. I would very much like to see his assessment on this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lodreh View Post
    I feel that if each race modified classes substantially... then and only then you wouldn't need more classes. For instance take the race specific priest abilities from Vanilla... 2 spells were different for each race that could be priest (Forsaken: Touch of Weakness/ Devouring Plague vs Dwarf: Desperate Prayer/ Fear Ward)... but what if it were more? What if instead of specs you gained racial bonus abilities.

    An example would be Forsaken choosing Priest and along with the base priest spells they gained in essence the Shadow spec spells. Forsaken Priest would never be Holy or Discipline... that is what Priest means to Forsaken. In this scenario adding additional races would shake up and in effect change classes enough based solely on those racially specific spells added... new classes would not be needed as much or as often. A Forsaken Hunter would be a Dark Ranger... an Orc Hunter would be the melee Survival... Blood Elf Mages would be fire Mages/ Blood Mages... only entirely new concepts that had absolutely no overlap with an existing class, would warrant a new class to be added.

    It is an intriguing idea and gives weight to your racial choice and at this point in the games life might even seem like a great direction but keep in mind what WoW was in the early days. Playing one character to max level was an incredible feat. There was no race change options... and it took a long time to level. In retrospect I see why they did not choose this path forward.
    I think the main barrier to this is what occurred with the race-based Priest abilities in Vanilla; Balance. It would be very hard to balance all of that out, and still make the abilities interesting. That said, I did really enjoy those old race-based Priest spells, and would have loved to see the idea expanded.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    That statement isn't supported by the facts. First and foremost, the professions are based on the WC3 item system. If you look at the various items offered by shops and merchants in WC3, they align nearly perfectly with the profession system in WoW. In short, the goal of professions were to allow players to imitate the shops of WC3 and produce items for player use. Your assertion that Alchemist and Tinker heroes were too close to the professions and were thus "rolled into them" is shown to be false because none of the Alchemist or Tinker abilities appear in either profession, but are used by NPCs in WoW.

    That said, if you have a statement from Blizzard that supports your claim, please post it. It will only help the discussion.
    "Engineers take advantage of their inventiveness to create an immense (and occasionally random) variety of helpful items. By tinkering ceaselessly, and tolerating malfunctions and misfires, an engineer can make utterly unique objects: sight-enhancing goggles, potent guns, robot pets, mechanical mounts, and even more unusual trinkets. Successful engineers use their inventions to solve problems and make life easier, faster, and better for themselves and their companions."

    "Engineer enchantments, also known as tinkers, are unique gear enchantments that may be used alongside regular enchantments. Glove enchants generally provide a throughput bonus and do not have any backfire effects. Belt enchants are utility-based and can sometimes backfire for adverse effects, or simply fizzle out."

    Weapon types: Explosives, various devices
    Skill(s): Engineering
    Could also be: Warrior

    This is why Mekattorque was classified as a Warrior in the past:
    Thunderclap — Inflicts Nature damage to nearby enemies and slows their movement by 25% for 8 sec.

    Engineer Gazlowe (Warcraft III)
    Base unit: Goblin Sapper
    "Engineer Gazlowe appears at the beginning of Rexxar's campaign where he gives Rexxar a mandatory quest to clear an underground well overrun with kobolds."

    Class: Engineer, Sapper.
    Former affiliation(s): Chief Engineerand leader of Ratchet.

    "After the Third War, Gazlowe was contracted by Thrall to be Durotar's Chief Engineer."

    "Gazlowe is a proud member of the Mechanical Engineers' Guild of Azeroth and sponsor of the races it holds."

    "His generic name in Frostfire Ridge is Goblin Engineer."

    Gazlowe's Chief Engineer skin
    "Backstory: A wise man once said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Gazlowe has never heard of this man... and if he had, he might punch him in the gut for saying stuff like that."

    "Tinkers (or tinkerers and tinkologists) are engineers mostly represented by gnomes, goblins, and dwarves of the Alliance, Horde and the Venture Company."

    Tinkere Sniggles, Tinkere Gizlock & Gazlowe
    Shoot — Shoots at an enemy, inflicting Physical damage.
    Bomb — Bombs all enemies in a selected area, inflicting Fire damage.
    Goblin Dragon Gun — Deals fire damage for 8 sec to all targets in a cone in front of the engineer using the weapon.

    "A bomb is a type of explosive only Engineers can use or craft that produces a Ground Targeted Area of Effect."

    Shoot
    5 - 30 yd range
    Instant
    Requires Hunter
    Requires Ranged Weapon
    Shoots at an enemy, inflicting Physical damage.

    Goblin Dragon Gun
    Explosives
    3 sec cast
    Tools:
    Blacksmith Hammer, Arclight Spanner
    Reagents:
    Mithril Tube (2), Goblin Rocket Fuel (4), Mithril Bar (6), Truesilver Bar (6), Unstable Trigger

    Profession Trainer: Engineering (240)
    Cost: 28

    Goblin Dragon Gun
    Item Level 25
    Binds when picked up
    Trinket
    Use: Deals 4 fire damage for 10 sec to all targets in a cone in front of the engineer using the weapon. That is unless it explodes..... (5 Min Cooldown)

    Siflaed Coldhammer <Tinker>
    Siflaed Coldhammer is a dwarf engineering vendor located at the Refugee Caravan in Terokkar Forest.

    Venture Co. Tinkerer
    Class: Mage

    7th Legion Tinker & Dr. Boom
    Throw Dynamite — Inflicts Fire damage to all enemies in a selected area.

    "Dynamite is a type of explosive only Engineers can craft that produces a Ground Targeted Area of Effect."

    Mechagon Tinkerer
    Activate Anti-Personnel Squirrel — Creates a mechanical squirrel that chases towards a random player, inflicting 50 Nature damage to all enemies within 10 yards of the detonation.

    Explosive Sheep
    Use: Summons an Explosive Sheep which will charge at a nearby enemy and explode for 150 damage. Lasts for 3 min or until it explodes.
    Requires Engineering (150)
    1 Charge

    Giga-Wallop — Unleashes an arc of electricity at a player, inflicting 20 Nature damage and then jumping to additional nearby enemies within 3 yards.

    Chain Lightning - Hurls a lightning bolt at the enemy, dealing Nature damage and then jumping to additional nearby enemies. Affects 3 total targets.

    Blood Mage: Rolled into the Mage and Warlock classes.
    Mage.

    Blademaster: Rolled into the Warrior class
    Temporary.

    Shadow Hunter: Rolled into the Shaman class.
    Temporary.

    Crypt Lord: Rolled into the DK, Warrior, and (strangely) Druid classes
    Rolled into nothing, really.

    Warden: Rolled into the Rogue class with Blink going to Mages
    Temporary.

    Firelord: Rolled into Warlock and Mage classes with Shaman getting Fire Elemental as an ability
    Hardly.

    Pit Lord: Rolled into the Warlock class with Warriors getting Cleave
    Warlock, i guess.

    Naga Sea Witch: Rolled into the Hunter, Shaman and Mage classes.
    I guess so...

    WC3 Warden uses Shadow abilities for quick surprise attacks, and Daggers laced with poison. Sound familiar?
    Wears plate armor and glaives. Very roguish, indeed.
    The poison aspect was dropped with HotS, and she doesn't have stealthy shadow abilities, just clones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Night Elven Dark Rangers didn't appear until BFA, and they didn't possess banshee powers like the hero unit did.
    Irrelevant when they appeared. It just shows you how they can expand and what they are planning. Again with the Banshee powers...-_- neither does any other Dark Ranger unit in Warcraft 3. Just like no Death Knight is a Lich King like Arthas and no one consumed the Skull of Gul'dan like Illidan.

    Okay, but then what class are you creating?

    Yes, you're creating a Priest. We already have a Priest class.
    No, sweetie. A bow wielding and arrow flinging, and a glaive swinging acrobatic class is no Priest. Get this into your head.

    LF Draenei didn't appear until Legion, and we can't play as Ankoans, so for the vast majority of WoW's history, a Blademaster was orc only. Further, while the warrior class doesn't possess all of the Blademaster's abilities, the Warrior covers the gist of the concept.
    Who the fuck cares when they appeared? Death Knights couldn't really be the majority of other races before its addition and Monk was only delegated to a few ones. That's called expanding. Jeez...
    There's no reason to add a Blademaster-centric race without adding it eventually, so...Expect Ankoan.
    The Warrior doesn't cover shit. Go see Samuro in HotS, for the thousandth time.

    3 abilities actually, since Searing totem was in fact Serpent Ward. Also we can't play as Saberons, and the abilities are highly Shaman-centric. For example, there's no reason Big Bad Voodoo won't eventually appear as a Shaman spell.
    Now a toy.
    Saberon came through the portal alongside the Mag'har. They're clearly saving them for something.
    Shaman are all about the elements and ancestral spirits. Hardly a Shadow Hunter. But, you wouldn't know.
    When the Shaman will be able to play like a Diablo 3 Witch Doctor, then get back to me.

    Actually a lot of people believed Demon Hunter would become playable. I have no idea where you're getting the notion that NO ONE thought that DHs would become a class.
    Just you
    People were saying it was too similar to a Warlock and Rogue.

    We're not talking about an addition to the Hunter class, we were talking about a 3rd spec for Demon Hunters.
    Which, should be spellcaster. Hence, why your fel idea can be a hunter glyph.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well its not really the same logic. A person wanting to play as a Dark Ranger can roll a Void Elf to resemble Sylvanas, go Marksman Hunter to get the feel of a dark Hunter without a pet, and can even obtain Sylvanas' bow and quiver in a Raid and get 2 Dark Ranger abilities. People who would want to play as a Tinker can't get anywhere near that close.
    A person who wants to play as a Tinker can choose a gnome, Goblin or Mechagnome, select the Hunter class and level Engineering. Ta-dah! You're a Tinker.
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-12-29 at 03:31 PM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I think it was less "running out of ideas" and more like the DH concept being an incredibly narrow concept that did not allow for much wiggle room, if any.

    Other concepts like runemaster, necromancer, bard and tinker are much broader and, IMO, allow for more options for class design.
    Do they really though? How do you design a necromancer to not play like a demo lock, hunter or do?
    Buff classes break games to the point of adding a fourth member to the fog trinity so you don just need a hard but three other buff based classes as well. Runemaster maybe? I don't know how you make standing in runes fun though. Tinker would just be a reskinned hunter at the end of the day since wow pvp can not handle area denial and non direct sources of damage.

    All of them have decent themes but what niches they could inhabit are either taken or the game wouldnt support. It's very , very hard to make something that isnt part of the 36 specs

  14. #74
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Hearthstone is not exactly something that should be taken seriously in that regard. After all, this is a card, there:



    And going back to WoW lore, DHs are purely about wielding warglaives. AFAIK, the only demon hunter in lore to use a different weapon is Allari the Souleater, and she does so not because she "prefers scythes" but because her weapon is a powerful artifact they're using to extract information from the demons.
    With all that being said, don't you think that such a spec would work very well with the general concept of the DH and be quite popular, since both DH races have very strong Hunter/Ranger cultures? I believe so.

    Imagine for example the spec being able to "tame" (really control) wild demonic pets and like the Hunter class, gaining specific abilities from them, and like Warlocks being able to sacrifice them and gain buffs. Not to mention of course a new ranged spec that can use bows and guns.

    I think players would love that.

  15. #75
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candlewick View Post
    Do they really though? How do you design a necromancer to not play like a demo lock, hunter or do?
    It's not hard to think of ways of doing that, y'know?

    Buff classes
    You're being incredibly limiting and frankly not using your creativity even one bit if you think bards can't be anything else BUT 'buff classes'. Again, bards can easily tailored to be all specs save for tank and NOT be "buff classes"..
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Hearthstone is not exactly something that should be taken seriously in that regard. After all, this is a card, there:



    And going back to WoW lore, DHs are purely about wielding warglaives. AFAIK, the only demon hunter in lore to use a different weapon is Allari the Souleater, and she does so not because she "prefers scythes" but because her weapon is a powerful artifact they're using to extract information from the demons.
    Heart stone presents itself as a very interesting 'what if' scenario with loads of really good ideas that could be incorporated into WoW and have been.

    Let's not forget the Tortollan was an idea that came from Hearthstone first before WoW, although in Hearthstone it is said they resided in Un'Goro crater.
    Proof is boring. Proof is tiresome. Proof is irrelevance. People would rather be handed an easy lie than search for a difficult truth, especially when it suits their own purpose.
    - Glokta
    The Last Argument of Kings, The First Law Trilogy.

  17. #77
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    With all that being said, don't you think that such a spec would work very well with the general concept of the DH
    Nope.

    I already answered that question, here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Because any non-melee spec is a departure from the concept presented in WC3, and a huge departure from how the concept was presented in Burning Crusade. Every demon hunter wielded warglaives. No demon hunter wielded anything else. All demon hunters were melee combatants. None was ranged.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's not hard to think of ways of doing that, y'know?


    You're being incredibly limiting and frankly not using your creativity even one bit if you think bards can't be anything else BUT 'buff classes'. Again, bards can easily tailored to be all specs save for tank and NOT be "buff classes"..
    That is just mash up of a monk and pally for healing it has almost nothing unique about it... your bard is just a rogue that is defence capped..

  19. #79
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    "Engineers stuff
    These same arguments can be made for DKs, Brewmasters, and DHs before they appeared as classes, and are rather irrelelvant. What you have to look for is if the concept in question can be placed in existing classes. If the answer is no, then you have an opening for class inclusion.

    For example, while Warlocks could have metamorphosis, they couldn't imitate the melee qualities of the Demon Hunter. So while the pivotal DH ability is metamorphosis, the Demon Hunter's demonic melee attributes were equally iconic to the concept and could not be imitated by any existing classes. In addition, Demon Hunters had various lore benefits that other concepts did not have, like Blood Elf DHs that allowed Horde and Alliance DHs, and Illidan being able to replicate Demon Hunter abilities, which gives a basis for multiple DHs to exist and in turn facilitates justification for a class.

    Now you may be asking why this applies to DHs and not Dark Rangers. Well consider that in terms of general playstyle the Dark Ranger has never played much different from the general Hunter class. Black Arrow for example never significantly altered Hunter gameplay in any of its iterations, thus unlike demonic melee with Demon Hunters, it stands to reason that a Dark Ranger class wouldn't offer much different gameplay wise from the Hunter class. In addition, "Banshee abilities" were never as strongly defined as the Metamorphosis ability was. Finally, the lore never supported the concept of multiple Sylvanas' running around. WoW lore especially made it a point to show that the DRs that Sylvanas raised were not Banshee empowered.

    In terms of the Tinker, we have none of its abilities ever appearing in the class lineup (Like Brewmasters), established cross faction play (like Demon Hunters), and the notion that there are multiple Tinkers in lore (DKs, Monks, DHs). Additionally we have the OP that says that the design goal was to bring RTS heroes into WoW as classes, which has been backed by every class inclusion thus far. Well, the Tinker and the Alchemist are the final 2 RTS heroes not in the class lineup, and as established earlier, Blizzard brings VERY few new classes into WoW.

  20. #80
    As the ama said

    See above about classes.

    The Demon Hunter fit into the Warrior class. We figured players would make a night elf warrior with dual wield and voila! On top of that we would offer some system (Hero Classes, Talents or something) that would really help them cement that feeling of being a Demon Hunter.

    We got the talents, but instead of Hero Classes the Demon Hunter was made its own class (I was gone by then).
    I think we will most likely see Dark Ranger or one of the many other classes not in game from the RTS that are NOT an April fools joke. Bard would be a good one as well

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