Equality

[geco]

Why n elves wanna be stay with Anduin alliance? He didin't even give a f... about them, he even mention anything about Teldrassil, the loss lives of his allies? No, but he have a nice hearth warming speech about poor poor old Saurfang....

Exactly.
That's why the "For the Alliance" is going to be heard weaker than the "For the Horde".
It is more I believe that if I pled "for Darmasus" it would be heard with much more force a few years ago.

But another way to look at it is this. In storytelling there is this "rule" for drama and gravitas to "kill your darlings". They killed characters they knew were beloved and important. Exactly to get the visceral feeling you are getting right now. That means no one gives a crap about alliance lol

That's why I think they set Teldrazzil Fire.
If any other Capital of the alliance were set on fire it would surely be a "nye".

And let's face it if Tyrande or Malfurion died with Teldrazzil, half of the Kaldorei fans would be happy XD

[StationaryHawk]

Jaína was nowhere to be found after her falling out with the alliance in cataclysm

Jaina disappeared at the end of Mists of Pandaria, not Cataclysm, and it was largely in response to the Kirin Tor ousting her.

Exactly.
That's why the "For the Alliance" is going to be heard weaker than the "For the Horde".
It is more I believe that if I pled "for Darmasus" it would be heard with much more force a few years ago.

"For the Horde" doesn't have the same charm either after two civil wars.

[Loreth88]

Exactly.
That's why the "For the Alliance" is going to be heard weaker than the "For the Horde".
It is more I believe that if I pled "for Darmasus" it would be heard with much more force a few years ago.

They even castrate all the races, not just the night elfs, blood elfs lost the strong identity they are holy elfs now? wtf. Trolls woodo stuff taken away, they are lesser orcs now, taurens, gnomes dwarfs have a back seat to long. Draeneis can be better in wod, then we get legion and they have a human leader, and an incompetent Valen because they need to show how awesome Illidan is. Forsakens need more indentity, they needed before Sylvanas leave because they didin't have it, Sylvanas have and they are her dogs.
Blizzard have a good named game, crated a universe of there own, they can do anything, its fantasy and not even need to follow a book or somebody else universe like Warhammer or witcher. And they create a less and less interesting story, slowly the races become humans, nothing more.

[Darth-Piekus]

1)The Nightsong, Daughter of the Sea.
2)How can you blame communities rallying behind a catchphrase on the devs?
3)Are we talking about Bonegrinder of Cannibal Corpse, interviewed backstage during one of the band tours?
Can we go even with Vin Diesel and Rhonda Rousey going public playing Night Elf Druids during Fast and Furious shootings? Or Cavill playing Human Priest?
Where's the Horde star power dude. Why no AAA actors play Horde!
4)So the solution proper was to keep the Alliance with more quests? Gotcha.
But zingers aside, when has this ever happened? And while we're in the whataboutisms, what about the Garrisons and the astonishing difference in quality between the two.
5)Could you imagine not being inspired by a faction of do-gooder demigods who can do no wrong ever because the Alliance base rallies up in arms every time some edge is introduced?
6)The Horde proved to be overall better receiving of inputs in the story of the game. The Horde has basically been told that Vol'jin dying to an NPC was a cutscene equivalent to Varian Wrynn bestowing Shalamayne to Anduin and so there would be no "compensation". The Horde kind of ate it up, alongside with the whole touting of Sylvanas' plan being a great surprise.Not to mention that, as much as writers like writing Horde stuff, the faction was embarassingly absent during the entire final stretch of Legion, with literally no NPCs contributing anything meaningful starting from Tomb of Sargeras onwards, and despite having the Orcs as the race with one of the largest bones to pick, even if just to redeem their legacy of corruption.
7)Cosmic powers work as writers need them to work, similarly to power levels and other intangibles.
Aside from that, siphoning a Naaru, a being of pure light, and using it as proxy for the Blood Knights was the edgiest take possible on how Paladins worked. The Paladin lore was mostly intact and instantly framed the dire straits the entirety of the Blood Elves was, and how determined they were, adding a much needed difference with the Alliance Paladins or Paladins proper, and another element of distinction between the factions.
8)The decline has mostly been in gameplay quality. By and large, people do not care about the lore.
This being said, the Horde being front and center is maybe true in Cataclysm where Thrall is the chosen one to ultimately shoot down Deathwing. Aside from that, MoP starts the Anduin character arc and WoD wears Yrel on a sleeve whenever it can. Whatever is there to be said about Orcs is immediately neutered by the fact that the Iron Horde is there to be slain, and Legion isn't a Draenei expansion by any stretch of the imagination despite the Eredar.
9)In no way shape or form we can talk about Horde favoritism in a world where Jaina exists, Orgrimmar has been basically sacked two times and the entire Argus campaign is in the state it's presented, led from a flying Alliance capital, with prominent Alliance NPCs arguing between themselves without any counterpart.
10)On topic, the Horde has been the featured bad guy, nobody can say why really.
Anecdotally, a vocal and sizable part of the player base absolutely pushes back any kind of involvement in anything that's not a classic heroic fantasy spotlight, whereas the other is overall more willing to see how things unfold.

1)The Daughter of the Sea is a good example (the Nightsong not so much)but both were newer songs. The Power of the Horde existed from Warcraft 3 and had no equivalent for years.You could argue The Alliances Call to Arms was an epic ballad but for some reason that Power of the Horde song dominated so much till the Daughter of the Sea appeared and it my opinion it has a little more oomph than the other two.
2)It's not the catchphrase but the amount of passion behind it showing that they didn't bother enough with Alliance npcs shouting for the Alliance but comes out pathetic compared to the For the Horde equivalent. Hear them side by side and you will know what I mean.
3)I am talking about Bonegrinder yes who trash talked and bullied real people just because they played Alliance during a Blizzcon. It's a disgusting behavior from him and disgusting from Blizzard for letting that happen. Also Ozzy Ozzborne plays an Undead Warlock so here's your star power. That is not my point though. It's the behavior.
4)The solution was to create more Horde hubs to make questing equivalent to the Alliance but they took the Lazy Route with the worst way possible. There was plenty of space to create hubs for the Horde. The same goes for every Alliance-Based faction and Kingdom in the game that they had to neutralize in order for the Horde to have hubs instead of creating Horde Based Factions to shelter them.
5)Could you imagine a company being so fucking lazy to get their asses down and write the Alliance as more morally grey?
6)Let's see. The Alliance nerfed to the ground technologically in the whole Cataclysm so that the Horde can stand a chance, Garrosh having unlimited manpower and resources despite the lore saying otherwise, Alliance Robot Cat, not dismantling the Horde two times, Garrosh and Sylvannas having the biggest plotholes in the history of Warcraft,neutral factions getting attacked by Garrosh and not retaliating,the Night Elves becoming the biggest joke in Warcraft, the Iron Horde getting victimised and the Dranei becoming fascists. Must I go on? Draenor is Free and now Shadowlands is Free.
7)While Blizzard has every right to do what they want with how they write their cosmic powers it trashes the game when they take a dump on their established lore.
8)I will agree on most people care about gameplay but aparently some were influential enough to make Blizzard shit their whole story,lore and normalcy in order to say the story of Hellscream and then the Dark Lady and they were responsible for the worst story ever made on the game which brought the game down.
9)I will continue talking about favoritism as long as the Horde still exists as an entity after all they did with actions influencing an alternative timeline, a Legion speed up and changing the Shadowlands.
10)I would say a majority of the Horde playerbase wanted Thrall's Horde and most of them became Horde because of that. On the contrary a smaller but more vocal part of the playerbase are those who pushed for war despite most of them either starting in Cataclysm not caring for the Lore or old time players who care only for PVP.

[geco]

"For the Horde" doesn't have the same charm either after two civil wars.

They even castrate all the races, not just the night elfs, blood elfs lost the strong identity they are holy elfs now? wtf. Trolls woodo stuff taken away, they are lesser orcs now, taurens, gnomes dwarfs have a back seat to long. Draeneis can be better in wod, then we get legion and they have a human leader, and an incompetent Valen because they need to show how awesome Illidan is. Forsakens need more indentity, they needed before Sylvanas leave because they didin't have it, Sylvanas have and they are her dogs.
Blizzard have a good named game, crated a universe of there own, they can do anything, its fantasy and not even need to follow a book or somebody else universe like Warhammer or witcher. And they create a less and less interesting story, slowly the races become humans, nothing more.

They both got the word out of my mouth. That's how I feel about both factions.

[Loreth88]

They both got the word out of my mouth. That's how I feel about both factions.

You think is the problem with the lore/story can be because there is more then 1 ppl write it?

[geco]

You think is the problem with the lore/story can be because there is more then 1 ppl write it?

Mmm the truth is I see it backwards. People are missing or have them backwards.
A hundred there is a person writing the human lore, one that of the orcs, one that of Sylvanas, two jokers and it's over.

When you have to write Lore Kaldorei you usually have "Guest Writer" or Kanack (good for someone who doesn't know how to write women being positive, writing Lore of Amazonas sucks.).

For me the lore should have a writer-in-chief by main race that is dedicated only to throwing ideas of his race.
For example the writer of the last novel who claimed to be a Kaldorei fan wrote this idea of ​​the "Kaldorei Triunbirato" Done Maiev, Shandris and Tyrande are the Triunbirato, which seems to be Cannon because of the Spoilers. That doesn't affect the rest of the lore but it makes the Kaldorei much more interesting.


If they did that even though the main lore is not quite right. The lode of each race would be so deep that you would not care. And let's face it race and Faction is what you choose when entering WoW.

[Syegfryed]

Look at the lore of any race of the Alliance and you will realize that it is not really that the fans get angry, it is that they come to destroy anything and put in its place the "AMAZING HUMANS LEADED BY ANDUIN THE HOLY SAVIOR"

you know anduin was the leader now right?

if go back in time you could see how the alliance was more fleshed out but always in constant target fo critics, then they just focus on the basics that people like and go with it withotu changing new things.

MOP was something they would never dare to do with the alliance, they fester the topics with HE bs till this very day, imagine the uproar of invading stormwind.

I mean literally I imagine that there are several within WoW who say "Oh shit the Fans of the Kaldorei are not satisfied that the souls of their race were destroyed and that Elune ORDERED them not to seek revenge. They are not happy with anything".

You are counting something from shadowlands to explain the past, and regardless of what they did, its still is "night elf story" even if its garbage, i don't know why are you complaining, this is the kind fo treatment horde gets all the time.

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The website sports new Race splash pages (really clean by the way, a little more game friendly and a little less RPG manual, which I dig).
Orc leader is To Be Determined with some blurb about Thrall, and Orcs have no mount displayed.
Also, according to their page Forsaken leader is - following design principles - the Skeletal Warhorse. The Forsaken have no leader card at all.

It really cracked me up.

There's also the factor that Darnassus, placed as Kaldorei capital, is acknowledged in its bodycopy as being destroyed. Undercity is not.

TBF the skeletal warhorse would be a better forsaken leader than Calia and the other one.

and orcs having no mount is rly amusing.

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There's a theme to all of this Alliance vs Horde stuff.
And it is that the Alliance even at this point exists only by Mechanics.

This is so pretentious that rly talka bout a lot of things wrong in the fanbase.

"night elves got punched once, now the whole alliance doesn't make sense in existing"

Wush, maybe burning of teldrasil was rly deserved, so the elves can get a bit taste of humility, it works quite well for the high elves back witht he scourge.

At the end of the day the Alliance is only Humans and friends.

whole game was about orcs x human and friends, nigth elves and humans/alliance were allied because common enemy and militar support

In other Words while the Horde is a unit.

"since night elves don't feel like alliance, alliance is entirelly broken, other races are ttoally irrelevant" while the horde, after two civil wars without leaders and a shit make up council, and youw ant to tell me the horde is an "unit", quite funny indeed.

[Loreth88]

Mmm the truth is I see it backwards. People are missing or have them backwards.
A hundred there is a person writing the human lore, one that of the orcs, one that of Sylvanas, two jokers and it's over.

When you have to write Lore Kaldorei you usually have "Guest Writer" or Kanack (good for someone who doesn't know how to write women being positive, writing Lore of Amazonas sucks.).

For me the lore should have a writer-in-chief by main race that is dedicated only to throwing ideas of his race.
For example the writer of the last novel who claimed to be a Kaldorei fan wrote this idea of ​​the "Kaldorei Triunbirato" Done Maiev, Shandris and Tyrande are the Triunbirato, which seems to be Cannon because of the Spoilers. That doesn't affect the rest of the lore but it makes the Kaldorei much more interesting.


If they did that even though the main lore is not quite right. The lode of each race would be so deep that you would not care. And let's face it race and Faction is what you choose when entering WoW.

Thanks your answering, that can be a case. Maybe if they have a chief lore master with strong hand, who is professional and can handle the writers, after that can be some kind of balance among the races and factions.

[Syegfryed]

1)The Daughter of the Sea is a good example (the Nightsong not so much)but both were newer songs. The Power of the Horde existed from Warcraft 3 and had no equivalent for years.You could argue The Alliances Call to Arms was an epic ballad but for some reason that Power of the Horde song dominated so much till the Daughter of the Sea appeared and it my opinion it has a little more oomph than the other two.

Now you want to rly say that people liking one thing more is blizzard fault and their bias to horde, this is bananas.you can't control people taste and what they would dig in a music, people just preffer some styles or music more, its not their fault or their bias that one worked better.

2)It's not the catchphrase but the amount of passion behind it showing that they didn't bother enough with Alliance npcs shouting for the Alliance but comes out pathetic compared to the For the Horde equivalent. Hear them side by side and you will know what I mean.

You also can't quantify "passion" the words are different, they will sound different, you ant to say somehow that is blizzard favoritism and bias that they made a faction named after something that can't give people the same sonorty as horde, another banan-levle argument.

3)I am talking about Bonegrinder yes who trash talked and bullied real people just because they played Alliance during a Blizzcon. It's a disgusting behavior from him and disgusting from Blizzard for letting that happen. Also Ozzy Ozzborne plays an Undead Warlock so here's your star power. That is not my point though. It's the behavior.

ITs was joke in a time people were not sensitive about, all factions trashtalked each other, but seems like you wanted someone trashtalking horde too, but that would be totally fine either way.

4)The solution was to create more Horde hubs to make questing equivalent to the Alliance but they took the Lazy Route with the worst way possible. There was plenty of space to create hubs for the Horde. The same goes for every Alliance-Based faction and Kingdom in the game that they had to neutralize in order for the Horde to have hubs instead of creating Horde Based Factions to shelter them.

Maybe the solution you would preffer more, but tis a game of war, in a short amount of time destruction make much mroe sense thanc contruction. you talk like horde lost nothing too.

5)Could you imagine a company being so fucking lazy to get their asses down and write the Alliance as more morally grey?

when they do that the alliance players complain, like the vulpera quest in BfA.

6)Let's see. The Alliance nerfed to the ground technologically in the whole Cataclysm so that the Horde can stand a chance, Garrosh having unlimited manpower and resources despite the lore saying otherwise, Alliance Robot Cat, not dismantling the Horde two times, Garrosh and Sylvannas having the biggest plotholes in the history of Warcraft,neutral factions getting attacked by Garrosh and not retaliating,the Night Elves becoming the biggest joke in Warcraft, the Iron Horde getting victimised and the Dranei becoming fascists. Must I go on? Draenor is Free and now Shadowlands is Free.

1- they were not nerfed, it was the hrode who finnaly got weapons in their level due to goblin addition.
2- he didn't had unlimited manpower and he lost many battles like in ashenvale with Varian deus ex machina.
3- what those plot holes exactly?
4- retaliate to be destroyed, sure thing, and as far i remember he only attacked blue dragons.
5-wait, it is bad that the draenei went be abd guy but isn't abd to make iron horde bad guys? seems like double standards

8)I will agree on most people care about gameplay but aparently some were influential enough to make Blizzard shit their whole story,lore and normalcy in order to say the story of Hellscream and then the Dark Lady and they were responsible for the worst story ever made on the game which brought the game down.

what youa re even trying to say here, cause this goes against your point of horde bias if the horde story was so bad that bought the game down.

9)I will continue talking about favoritism as long as the Horde still exists as an entity after all they did with actions influencing an alternative timeline, a Legion speed up and changing the Shadowlands.

And that is why we should never take posts like this serious

"if the horde breaths or exist, is horde favoritism and horde bias"

Nothing blizzard wille ver do willb good enough, because its will only be enough when there is no horde in the game

[Kithelle]

As i seen a lot of people want Sylvanas head on a spike for what she has done in Teldrassil and as a horde i do agree she might deserve it.
But the horde these past expansion lost great names like Garrosh,Voljin and Rasthakan(even though we knew him for one expansion).Now most likely we will lose Sylvanas either by being killed or banished never to be heard of.Thrall left the horde and started agriculture.
The Horde are pretty much weakened.Except Varian i do not recall the Alliance ever losing important figures.

Why are the Horde always written as the "bad guys"?

I doubt she is going anywhere, she is the waifu of Danuser and thousands of others...the story really feels like it's being set up to forgive her as well. (If you can call it a story, feels like they're ripping off a snickers commercial...she wasn't herself when she killed all those people)

[geco]

Thanks your answering, that can be a case. Maybe if they have a chief lore master with strong hand, who is professional and can handle the writers, after that can be some kind of balance among the races and factions.

Well it is clear that no WoW writer was ever a "professional". Or the few who were were hired for a single novel, nothing more.

[Aucald]

Well it is clear that no WoW writer was ever a "professional". Or the few who were were hired for a single novel, nothing more.

Depends on how you define "professional?" Much of the Warcraft universe's underpinnings were created by Chris Metzen and Samwise Didier, both of whom at the time didn't really have much writing experience. But their early work was later codified and expanded upon by Richard Knaak and Christie Golden, both of which are professional novelists with quite a long experience in both fantasy and science fiction. Golden herself was actually part of Blizzard for several years, starting in 2017, working on WoW's main narrative as a senior writer.

[geco]

Depends on how you define "professional?" Much of the Warcraft universe's underpinnings were created by Chris Metzen and Samwise Didier, both of whom at the time didn't really have much writing experience. But their early work was later codified and expanded upon by Richard Knaak and Christie Golden, both of which are professional novelists with quite a long experience in both fantasy and science fiction. Golden herself was actually part of Blizzard for several years, starting in 2017, working on WoW's main narrative as a senior writer.

In my definition of professionals it goes more with the "professional principles" not with which you work from that.
A person who is "unprofessional" works only for money and does not care to do a good or bad job.

Golden for example writes a lot of novels lately that in the end have nothing to do with Lore. Which brings me to two options.
* She is unprofessional and she writes what comes to her mind and not what she owes.
* She is told that she is going to pass A but in the end she passes B making it appear that all of her novels are simply garbage because they contradict the lore of the same expansion. And since she is not very professional, she does not look for a job where she is treated with respect.

Kanack on the other hand is clearly unprofessional. By forcing Jarold's PC and turning the "matriarchal" faction into a male-centric faction in his novels ... to the point where all of his novels were put aside for Kaldorei development.

[Aucald]

In my definition of professionals it goes more with the "professional principles" not with which you work from that.
A person who is "unprofessional" works only for money and does not care to do a good or bad job.

Golden for example writes a lot of novels lately that in the end have nothing to do with Lore. Which brings me to two options.
* She is unprofessional and she writes what comes to her mind and not what she owes.
* She is told that she is going to pass A but in the end she passes B making it appear that all of her novels are simply garbage because they contradict the lore of the same expansion. And since she is not very professional, she does not look for a job where she is treated with respect.

Kanack on the other hand is clearly unprofessional. By forcing Jarold's PC and turning the "matriarchal" faction into a male-centric faction in his novels ... to the point where all of his novels were put aside for Kaldorei development.

That's an odd definition for "professional," but I guess it does make sense in context for your previous post. I would probably be more inclined to use the term "loyal," as in loyalty to the source material or previous narratives, as it were. Whether anyone really likes Golden or Knaak's contributions isn't really the issue, though; I would say they're quite professional, but perhaps not the right fit for Warcraft.

I wouldn't say that the Night Elves were ever "matriarchal," either. An appreciable portion of the men, including the co-founder of the post-Sundering civilization Malfurion, were asleep in the Emerald Dream as part and parcel of their oaths to the Aspects. Knaak's basic envisioning of the War of the Ancients, the Sundering, and its various events are also still canon to WoW and are experienced as originally written in Legion at several parts. I'm not much of a fan of Knaak either, but his contributions to WoW are still very much present and relevant. Same for Christie Golden's, as well.

[geco]

That's an odd definition for "professional," but I guess it does make sense in context for your previous post. I would probably be more inclined to use the term "loyal," as in loyalty to the source material or previous narratives, as it were. Whether anyone really likes Golden or Knaak's contributions isn't really the issue, though; I would say they're quite professional, but perhaps not the right fit for Warcraft.

I wouldn't say that the Night Elves were ever "matriarchal," either. An appreciable portion of the men, including the co-founder of the post-Sundering civilization Malfurion, were asleep in the Emerald Dream as part and parcel of their oaths to the Aspects. Knaak's basic envisioning of the War of the Ancients, the Sundering, and its various events are also still canon to WoW and are experienced as originally written in Legion at several parts. I'm not much of a fan of Knaak either, but his contributions to WoW are still very much present and relevant. Same for Christie Golden's, as well.

Let's say in my country.
Being "Professional" and "Working in a profession" are not synonymous. Maybe you use another word.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Although I do agree that in terms of loosing big name beloved characters the horde had it way worse than alliance don't forget that until BFA Jaína was nowhere to be found after her falling out with the alliance in cataclysm so we did lose her. Whatever happens to Silvanas now maybe only temporary. Although we technically lost Silvanas in BFA not Shadowlands.

But another way to look at it is this. In storytelling there is this "rule" for drama and gravitas to "kill your darlings". They killed characters they knew were beloved and important. Exactly to get the visceral feeling you are getting right now. That means no one gives a crap about alliance lol

Jaina had a big roll in mop and then showed up in both Wod and legion for brief moments, she’s been in every wow expan baring tbc.

- - - Updated - - -

Jaina disappeared at the end of Mists of Pandaria, not Cataclysm, and it was largely in response to the Kirin Tor ousting her.

The kirin tor never ousted her she left on her own when they let the sun reavers back in at the start of legion.

- - - Updated - - -

Depends on how you define "professional?" Much of the Warcraft universe's underpinnings were created by Chris Metzen and Samwise Didier, both of whom at the time didn't really have much writing experience. But their early work was later codified and expanded upon by Richard Knaak and Christie Golden, both of which are professional novelists with quite a long experience in both fantasy and science fiction. Golden herself was actually part of Blizzard for several years, starting in 2017, working on WoW's main narrative as a senior writer.

Golden’s a senior writer but not for wows narrative she’s outside the wow team working on things they bring to her like cinematic’s short story’s ect and she does the same for blizzards other games.

Geco’s right they haven’t really ever had a real professional working full time on wow.

[Aucald]

Golden’s a senior writer but not for wows narrative she’s outside the wow team working on things they bring to her like cinematic’s short story’s ect and she does the same for blizzards other games.

Geco’s right they haven’t really ever had a real professional working full time on wow.

According to Golden's bio and WoWPedia, she did actually work on the narrative from 2016-2018, basically during the Legion expansion. She moved over to cinematics and short stories for BfA and now she doesn't actually work for Blizzard but still does novels and short stories as a contractor, as she did prior to 2016.

I would call her a professional, although as previously discussed geco's and my definition of "professional" is somewhat different. I'd agree Golden isn't always loyal to the existing narrative continuity, same as Knaak, but then that's been a problem that's plagued Warcraft since its earliest days of having external media. The developers always sort of let the contract writers do whatever they wanted with their own narratives, and then slapped numerous band-aids on the in-game continuity later on.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

According to Golden's bio and WoWPedia, she did actually work on the narrative from 2016-2018, basically during the Legion expansion. She moved over to cinematics and short stories for BfA and now she doesn't actually work for Blizzard but still does novels and short stories as a contractor, as she did prior to 2016.

I would call her a professional, although as previously discussed geco's and my definition of "professional" is somewhat different. I'd agree Golden isn't always loyal to the existing narrative continuity, same as Knaak, but then that's been a problem that's plagued Warcraft since its earliest days of having external media. The developers always sort of let the contract writers do whatever they wanted with their own narratives, and then slapped numerous band-aids on the in-game continuity later on.

Wowpedia is just out of data/really wrong then.

She started at blizzard in 2017 she didn’t work on the narrative outside of her contract stuff before then and she was hired on to CDev/SFD team (books cinematic’ ect) and has always been on it while full time at blizzard. She’s also still at blizzard as of a couple months ago (haven’t checked recently)with all the 9.2 stuff coming up.

This is all from the horses mouth it self.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristieG...98236299653120

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristieG...-entertainment

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristieG...07878273097728

As to her being professional I’d say she cuts it but she’s just never been working on the wow team it self she’s just been doing work they come to her with.

[StationaryHawk]

The kirin tor never ousted her she left on her own when they let the sun reavers back in at the start of legion.

You're correct, I misremembered the situation. Jaina stepping down as leader of the Kirin Tor was a consequence of the vote, not the reason for it.