Page 11 of 28 FirstFirst ...
9
10
11
12
13
21
... LastLast
  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Again this is your post, you are the one who said daily’s have there own areas and there own story bits that world quest lack and I even agreed with you that mop was like that and that If they were going to expand the system they’d have to copy mop and go further.

    And yes I don’t think blizzard would hire new devs or move existing devs working on other things to make areas for them or write for them, the extra hours of work/pay it would cost I don’t think they’d invest.
    But there are already quests... with text... in places... so this is just putting the quests and their text and their places together. This requires adding nothing now. It's just a matter of organization.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  2. #202
    The Lightbringer ProphetFlume's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,599
    Always?

    What do other mmos have for endgame that equal what wow has for raids?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumboy View Post
    I'm not sure if you guys have noticed but sometimes I say things that are kind of dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    I just like reading about the "vigorous rubbing" that might affect ball inflation.

  3. #203
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    19,398
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    But there are already quests... with text... in places... so this is just putting the quests and their text and their places together. This requires adding nothing now. It's just a matter of organization.
    World quest don’t have the same amount of quest text of daily’s, don’t have any real story relation, and are spread through out lvling areas unlike most mop esc daily’s.

    You already know all of this you are the one who pointed it out, it isn’t just a matter of organization.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    Agreed but there are still complications that to me make sense. For example, a season cap or some sort of fairly quick catch up mechanism makes sense - it’s no fun to be permanently behind because you started late or went away for a week.

    I also think it makes sense that the cap goes up more quickly with harder content, or maybe you get bonus currency that week (and yes I know this contradicts the earlier point that catch up should be quick, I believe trivially so).
    There's no reason to have catch up or a different cap for different people. These are the types of needless complexities that have made WoW's systems such a clusterfuck. You don't need to solve every problem. WoW is built of problems that came from solutions to other invented problems. They stack and stack and stack until the whole game is busted because nobody said "Maybe we just change the underlying issue rather than adding more complexities."

    The absurd number of raid difficulty settings is a great example of this:

    Well, now we've got one difficulty and 40 people per raid and its really tough for a lot of people to get into it. Let's reduce the size.
    Well, a lot of people still aren't doing the raids, so let's add a lower difficulty called Normal and make the current difficulty Heroic.
    Well, some people like 10 and some like 25, so let's have both at both difficulty levels.
    Well, a lot of people still don't do raids, so let's add another easier difficulty called LFR.
    Well, a lot of people can't get groups together so let's make the raids be flexible and scale with group size.
    Well, we need the highest difficulty to be tuned properly so we need to make that a fixed size, let's add a fourth tier.

    What a fucking mess. Stacking solution on top of problem created by the previous solution over and over and over and over again. M+ has the same issue, this huge mess of ideas jammed together to solve invented problems.

    Do you know why you see coming in late and needing catch up gear as a problem? Because it is a problem. You aren't wrong. But why is it a problem? Because there's too gigantic a spread of ilvl at any given time. That's an invented problem, and it should be cut off at the root, not built upon. And if we don't want to solve that problem, we shouldn't overcomplicate other systems to accommodate it. We should accept the flaw and move forward.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    World quest don’t have the same amount of quest text of daily’s, don’t have any real story relation, and are spread through out lvling areas unlike most mop esc daily’s.

    You already know all of this you are the one who pointed it out, it isn’t just a matter of organization.
    I didn't say to recreate MoPs daily system. In fact, I never appealed to that system a single time. You are the one that keeps prattling on and on and on about it and won't stop. Just like I said before, I'm talking about the tired on my old blue car and you are rating and raving about how I shouldn't paint my new car blue. I don't want to. I just want the tires. I don't need to take the whole package.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    There's no reason to have catch up or a different cap for different people. These are the types of needless complexities that have made WoW's systems such a clusterfuck. You don't need to solve every problem. WoW is built of problems that came from solutions to other invented problems. They stack and stack and stack until the whole game is busted because nobody said "Maybe we just change the underlying issue rather than adding more complexities."

    The absurd number of raid difficulty settings is a great example of this:

    Well, now we've got one difficulty and 40 people per raid and its really tough for a lot of people to get into it. Let's reduce the size.
    Well, a lot of people still aren't doing the raids, so let's add a lower difficulty called Normal and make the current difficulty Heroic.
    Well, some people like 10 and some like 25, so let's have both at both difficulty levels.
    Well, a lot of people still don't do raids, so let's add another easier difficulty called LFR.
    Well, a lot of people can't get groups together so let's make the raids be flexible and scale with group size.
    Well, we need the highest difficulty to be tuned properly so we need to make that a fixed size, let's add a fourth tier.

    What a fucking mess. Stacking solution on top of problem created by the previous solution over and over and over and over again. M+ has the same issue, this huge mess of ideas jammed together to solve invented problems.

    Do you know why you see coming in late and needing catch up gear as a problem? Because it is a problem. You aren't wrong. But why is it a problem? Because there's too gigantic a spread of ilvl at any given time. That's an invented problem, and it should be cut off at the root, not built upon. And if we don't want to solve that problem, we shouldn't overcomplicate other systems to accommodate it. We should accept the flaw and move forward.
    As you said before the simple solution is the best. All content regardless of what it is rewards badges, collect enough you get BiS. Certain content gives more others give less let the players decide how they want to play. Done and Done.

  6. #206
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    19,398
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I didn't say to recreate MoPs daily system. In fact, I never appealed to that system a single time. You are the one that keeps prattling on and on and on about it and won't stop. Just like I said before, I'm talking about the tired on my old blue car and you are rating and raving about how I shouldn't paint my new car blue. I don't want to. I just want the tires. I don't need to take the whole package.
    So when you said old daily quest hubs had all of those things you weren’t actually talking about wow at all you were talking about some hypothetical daily’s that never actually existed?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    So when you said old daily quest hubs had all of those things you weren’t actually talking about wow at all you were talking about some hypothetical daily’s that never actually existed?
    Did I say "I miss having massive amounts of quest text and only a small part of the zone being where the dailies are!"

    No, I said none of that, so maybe it would be more productive to engage with the things I actually said rather than trying desperately to misinterpret me.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  8. #208
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    19,398
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Did I say "I miss having massive amounts of quest text and only a small part of the zone being where the dailies are!"

    No, I said none of that, so maybe it would be more productive to engage with the things I actually said rather than trying desperately to misinterpret me.
    You see I did that but then the things you actually said didn’t match up with what you wanted to change your arguments to leading to this convoluted mess.

    So pretty much, you think the old system was better, but you were also never talking about the old system, but you think they should take the amount of quest and add them to the old system, but they also shouldn’t apply the parts of the old system (which you were never talking about) that actually made it better then the current system, and that means they should I just cluster quest together.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    As you said before the simple solution is the best. All content regardless of what it is rewards badges, collect enough you get BiS. Certain content gives more others give less let the players decide how they want to play. Done and Done.
    You need catch up though. It’s no fun to join 2 months into a tier and be 2 months of badges behind for the next 6 months. At some point it feels like a penalty that you can’t ever catch up to the curve.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    You need catch up though. It’s no fun to join 2 months into a tier and be 2 months of badges behind for the next 6 months. At some point it feels like a penalty that you can’t ever catch up to the curve.
    I guess the way out of that would be to increase the badge count on content from the previous tier so you can run it. Even then if that's the issue it seems relativley fixable compared to the cluster we have now.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    You see I did that but then the things you actually said didn’t match up with what you wanted to change your arguments to leading to this convoluted mess.

    So pretty much, you think the old system was better, but you were also never talking about the old system, but you think they should take the amount of quest and add them to the old system, but they also shouldn’t apply the parts of the old system (which you were never talking about) that actually made it better then the current system, and that means they should I just cluster quest together.
    I specifically called out the aspects of the old system I liked, and said I would like to go back to those aspects. Your response to this has been to keep telling me how OTHER parts of the system are bad ideas. That is not constructive.

    Again, I want to take my tires off my old blue car and put them on my new red car, and you are ranting and raving about how I shouldn't paint the red car blue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    You need catch up though. It’s no fun to join 2 months into a tier and be 2 months of badges behind for the next 6 months. At some point it feels like a penalty that you can’t ever catch up to the curve.
    Then don't go six months without an update, and don't make the cap so high that it takes six months to get to.

    Again, the approach to problem solving that you are going with here is exactly what screwed the game up.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  12. #212
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    19,398
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I specifically called out the aspects of the old system I liked, and said I would like to go back to those aspects. Your response to this has been to keep telling me how OTHER parts of the system are bad ideas. That is not constructive.
    You are right you did specifically call out what aspects you liked, but then you threw all those away and said that the only difference was rather the quest were clustered or not.

    And when I pointed out that only mop really used said aspects and how doing so would cost more time/money to make you said you weren’t even appealing to the old system.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-01-06 at 08:16 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  13. #213
    WoW design was doomed the moment the game was changed to accommodate those enraged that someone else had larger numbers then them. That was the first sin so to speak.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Then don't go six months without an update, and don't make the cap so high that it takes six months to get to.

    Again, the approach to problem solving that you are going with here is exactly what screwed the game up.
    Adding catch up is very simple. Grandly pronouncing that from now on updates should be less than 6 months apart is totally unrealistic.

    Nothing screws up tech more than unrealistic timelines.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Coniferous View Post
    Adding catch up is very simple. Grandly pronouncing that from now on updates should be less than 6 months apart is totally unrealistic.

    Nothing screws up tech more than unrealistic timelines.
    Weird how other MMOs can pull that off.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    You are right you did specifically call out what aspects you liked, but then you threw all those away and said that the only difference was rather the quest were clustered or not.

    And when I pointed out that only mop really used said aspects and how doing so would cost more time/money to make you said you weren’t even appealing to the old system.
    I want the quests to be made up clusters that are story-interrelated, but are still on rotations to make them stay interesting. These areas don't need to be only for the dailies. They can be reused version of other areas.

    What's the issue?
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  16. #216
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    19,398
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I want the quests to be made up clusters that are story-interrelated, but are still on rotations to make them stay interesting. These areas don't need to be only for the dailies. They can be reused version of other areas.

    What's the issue?
    so just what we have now but with more quest text and grouped together.

    so it still cost blizzard more to make as it has to be story interrelated, but we don't get new area's, just sounds like a worse version of mop that cost more then WQ.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  17. #217
    I agree. WoW was never meant to be a raiding game, this obssessive fixation on raiding ruins the game and raidbabs are obnoxious as hell. Waste of effort and resources if you ask me.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    I agree. WoW was never meant to be a raiding game, this obssessive fixation on raiding ruins the game and raidbabs are obnoxious as hell. Waste of effort and resources if you ask me.
    All the raiders wanted was to be left alone... then came badges,valor, lfr, and more. The players wanted to be raiders so blizzard gave them what they wanted. Sadly all they did was envy raiders they didn't actually want to become them.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    so just what we have now but with more quest text and grouped together.

    so it still cost blizzard more to make as it has to be story interrelated, but we don't get new area's, just sounds like a worse version of mop that cost more then WQ.
    I specifically said it doesn't need to be more quest text.

    The fact that this argument has devolved into "But I think it might take five minutes to write a paragraph about this, so they can't afford it" says volumes about the quality of your argument.

    I've worked in game development. The idea that quest text, even if it was at issue here, is a big financial barrier is straight up delusional and deranged. It takes literally 20 times as much time to script a quest than it does to write a paragraph, easily. Every quest probably takes someone something like 20 hours of designer time to produce, and you think the un-voiced quest text is this massive financial barrier, putting aside that I've said like 18 times that no extra quest text is needed.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  20. #220
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    19,398
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I specifically said it doesn't need to be more quest text.

    The fact that this argument has devolved into "But I think it might take five minutes to write a paragraph about this, so they can't afford it" says volumes about the quality of your argument.

    I've worked in game development. The idea that quest text, even if it was at issue here, is a big financial barrier is straight up delusional and deranged. It takes literally 20 times as much time to script a quest than it does to write a paragraph, easily. Every quest probably takes someone something like 20 hours of designer time to produce, and you think the un-voiced quest text is this massive financial barrier, putting aside that I've said like 18 times that no extra quest text is needed.
    If you want story interrelated you need more quest text the world quest "this guy is bad kill him" wouldn't cut it.

    and yes it does take more time to script the quest that how ever doesn't mean that a business as stringy as blizzard would want to either hire new people or move existing people onto writing quest as even though it might take five minutes to do one or two it would take hours to make up story's around them and then to break those story's up into quest.

    It wouldn't be a massive Financial barrier but it would still cost more and for little gain.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-01-07 at 01:09 AM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •