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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Auto queued dungeon have a deserved expection to be completed if you stick with it. The part of m+ that can be auto queued will be nerfed to be beatable by everyone the system lets into it. Just look at lfr. There was a time when the raid group needed to be at least halfway competent, but even that skill ceiling was above the ability of the target audience, and lfr was (rightly so imo) nerfed to the ground. That will happen with autoqueue m+ too.

    And if you think yeah well so what if an autoqueue +7 would be easier than a manual +7, if they give the same rewards you can bet your last gold on auto being abused to high heaven. And if they don't give the same rewards then what's even the point. Just play heroic
    It wouldn't even need to go that high. Some of you just have such mental blocks about how things would be implemented and always expecting the worst. The current system would need to be changed slightly to implement a queue tool but it wouldn't be hard. Most players with minimal skill/gear/knowledge can complete +1-4's. Granted sometimes it would fail but back in the day groups could could also fail in heroics. Big deal.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    Again but we've been over this; There's never been an exodus because a game got too easy. This fear is unfounded.
    That is so completely wrong it's unreal. If a game is too easy, then it's not engaging. If it's not engaging, then it's not fun. If it's not fun, then what is the point in playing?

    Are you saying that if the hardest key was a +5 and the hardest raid difficulty was normal then you would still enjoy it?
    What if all mount drops were buffed to a 50% chance? Would you enjoy mount farming if you got them all within a few weeks?
    If every class was reduced to 3 spells that you pressed in order as they popped up, you would enjoy playing your spec?

    If you think a game being too easy isn't a bad thing, you're actually mental.

    This has literally happened before in WoW though. Emerald Nightmare was notoriously easy. It was cleared in what, 17 hours? People quit the game then months and months earlier than is "usual" because of that, even "casual raiders". People stayed because M+ was suddenly a thing (surprise surprise), but without that then the game would have bled players like nothing before.

  3. #103
    I think M0 should get a queue in LFD. Its really just what heroic used to be a this point with heroic essentially being pointless in Shadowlands.

    But anything keyed should not.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Goat7 View Post
    Certain classes and or certain specs are just simply not invited to anything higher then a 9 for the most part.

    Lol. Please name the classes that cannot get invited to anything higher than a 9

  5. #105
    This is a self made problem anyway. Its bizarre how condescending people are being in this thread. This idea would destroy M+, for little to no reason.

  6. #106
    It can't have a queue. Too many factors lead to success in M+.
    If they ever remove the keystone system, or at least how failure is processed through it, it can potentially work, but no one should want this.
    Would you want your keystone formed without any consent of who is going to do it?

    This just isn't that type of content.
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    Some of you just have such mental blocks about how things would be implemented and always expecting the worst.
    I've been playing blizzard games since the late 1990s. All I ever see on forums is an endless stream of people coming in and asking for god mode to one shot everything. They either ask for it directly, or hide it in some sort of plea to nerf everything. So yeah, I expect the worst.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    I said it. When I was playing WoW I first experienced M+ when I joined a M0. Didn't think it was that bad but then once I got up around 8-10 I noticed finding groups became painful. Bare in mind I was a frost mage and at the start of 9.0 after pre-launch nerfs Frost Mages were dookie. Fire wasn't but man I really really hate twitchy gameplay.

    Being honest here--there's no good logical reason from my perspective as to why this doesn't happen. I know people will all say comp comp comp--my response is that the burden of responsibility for balancing the game so that all specs, and all classes are viable with one another is a dev issue, and any deviation from that statement is you as a paying customer being okay with a subpar product.

    Hire some actuaries to balance your numbers and let players connect with one another automatically. The insistence on Premade grouping is so dated and not helpful to anyone.
    All classes are viable for a +10. A queue won't solve anything. People will leave groups just as they do now or even more.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I've been playing blizzard games since the late 1990s. All I ever see on forums is an endless stream of people coming in and asking for god mode to one shot everything. They either ask for it directly, or hide it in some sort of plea to nerf everything. So yeah, I expect the worst.
    I've been playing them since the 90's also going back to D1. Expecting the worst is your own choice but I don't think adding an automated grouping tool is the end of the world. I think a lot of people would use it and be fine with it. It would be for people who just want to complete an m+ for the week without having to stress out about their dungeon score or having the right spec to get an invite or people to join their group.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by azka View Post
    All classes are viable for a +10. A queue won't solve anything. People will leave groups just as they do now or even more.
    Id go even farther and say all classes and specs are viable up to 20. People dont want to get good at their specs or optimize and expect to be carried being the issue. That also applies to perceived weak specs having a harder time finding a group but again that comes down to the community being its own worst enemy and not a design issue.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    I've been playing them since the 90's also going back to D1. Expecting the worst is your own choice but I don't think adding an automated grouping tool is the end of the world. I think a lot of people would use it and be fine with it. It would be for people who just want to complete an m+ for the week without having to stress out about their dungeon score or having the right spec to get an invite or people to join their group.
    This is pretty much it. It's about trying to figure out how to attract casual players back. Which honestly I've yet to see any solutions given from a lot of players. It's always more of the same--which is just it's not a big deal they left. But the second mythic raiders threaten to leave---STOP EVERYTHING WE CANNOT LOSE OUR MOST VALUABLE PLAYERS! I'm literally laughing at the lack of imagination here.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    This is pretty much it. It's about trying to figure out how to attract casual players back. Which honestly I've yet to see any solutions given from a lot of players. It's always more of the same--which is just it's not a big deal they left. But the second mythic raiders threaten to leave---STOP EVERYTHING WE CANNOT LOSE OUR MOST VALUABLE PLAYERS! I'm literally laughing at the lack of imagination here.
    Their entire self-worth is wrapped up on accomplishments in a game with talking cow ladies in it. You can't reach them. They actually think they are important and valuable. They think they are pro athletes. They actually think we should be thanking them for playing the game.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Their entire self-worth is wrapped up on accomplishments in a game with talking cow ladies in it. You can't reach them. They actually think they are important and valuable. They think they are pro athletes. They actually think we should be thanking them for playing the game.
    Literally if you go back in the thread you can see people worship these players for some reason. I'm sitting here going, why? All I'm asking for is a play and go feature that lets me continually build gear for my character. It's like there's some kind of sacred cow, and this is why I'm posting these threads because it exposes how people think about others. So far the only takeaway I have is people want to exclude people because they think they're more valuable, and don't want to be associated with others.

    Furthermore I want to stress this; My brother-in-law is a Actuary. I told him about this, that dude literally balances predictive models based on over 10K lives and tries to tie the chances of getting sick based on age, zip, and what not. I mentioned there's 36 specs and his response was: Any actuarial assistant could do that in a day or two. The math isn't the issue; it's the will.
    Last edited by Miffinat0r; 2022-01-06 at 08:05 PM.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    Literally if you go back in the thread you can see people worship these players for some reason. I'm sitting here going, why? All I'm asking for is a play and go feature that lets me continually build gear for my character. It's like there's some kind of sacred cow, and this is why I'm posting these threads because it exposes how people think about others. So far the only takeaway I have is people want to exclude people because they think they're more valuable, and don't want to be associated with others.
    They've invented this whole mythology where the entire game relies on mythic raiders and without them the whole thing comes crashing down. It's really funny to anyone who has played other MMOs in particular, because the idea is laughable when no other game relies on this egomaniac freak show to stay alive. They could delete mythic tier entirely tomorrow and the impact on the game would be negligible.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Alroxas View Post
    Oh boy, I'd like for you to go read the numerous threads on why that's a bad idea.

    Short version: Leaving by not really leaving but forcing someone else to leave first to get that "consequence".

    Can be as simple as being passive = no longer attacking/tanking/healing but still moving around to prevent AFK timer to remove you.

    Can be as "evil" as being "sloppy" = body pulling extra packs, pulling aggro on boss before everyone is ready, "purposely" screwing up mechanics, etc.
    Sorry I was being facetious, I thought the part about running with nothing but feral druids made it apparent.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    They've invented this whole mythology where the entire game relies on mythic raiders and without them the whole thing comes crashing down. It's really funny to anyone who has played other MMOs in particular, because the idea is laughable when no other game relies on this egomaniac freak show to stay alive. They could delete mythic tier entirely tomorrow and the impact on the game would be negligible.
    So go play those other games then.

  17. #117
    Pandaren Monk czarek's Avatar
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    Oh yes we do need more toxic behavior lol. I see qqing about trolls that they dooming run or tons od leavers. With actual grp making like there is none just pick random 3dps tank n heal wouldnt work well. Rating system and leaving counter maybe yes.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    Yea...if you're a tank or healer lol.
    bruh. its an mmo. go make some friends and find a set of friends that you can spam m+ with. be social. its not a single player game. get over it

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorlax View Post
    So go play those other games then.
    Isn't how class war works. It isn't that they want mythic destroyed it is that they want to be the mythic raiders or what they perceive being a mythic raider is like.

  20. #120
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    The key system is a very very bad idea and it's built toward abuse of players on players.
    I'm agnostic about keys but whether or not the key system is a bad idea this is worse. I suppose it would have to be implemented to demonstrate how bad it would be but the multiple range of difficulties available would make the system extremely messy. I don't see how it's even workable. Saying "technology" and "they could figure it out" is tantamount to admitting that there is no apparent solution for this.

    Besides, automated matchmaking for difficult content is not a tenable thing.

    As always, the easiest most direct solution is to start your own group and find the sweet spot where you can easily admit people to a group that a lot of people would want to sign up for. Alternately, be in a guild or start up/find a community of like-minded people that you could trust a bit.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2022-01-06 at 08:28 PM.
    "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game" — Soren Johnson (Civilization III/IV designer)

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