M+ Needs a Queue

[Miffinat0r]

Literally the worst idea I've seen in a while.

M+ isn't the reason the game is "bleeding players". If anything, running M+ with friends/guildies is one of the only things keeping some people in the game. Making it just a "queue and forget" thing like Heroic dungeons is just horrible and will ruin the ENTIRE system. And yes, the system works. The key system is not bad nor the issue.

Just sounds like you don't have anyone to run M+ with, and you're tilted by queueing for ages and just getting declined. It's not the system that's the problem, YOU'RE the problem, just because you don't have the time anymore, or want to actually put the effort into the game.

I know plenty of people who just PUG their own keys, have gotten all +20's completed and made numerous friends along the way. That's the whole point of an MMO. As someone said before, we need more social interaction within this game. It's not an MMO anymore (or close to not being one). If you want a game where you can just queue up and play without interacting with anyone then go play something like League or any number of the alternatives.

More of the same. Game is losing players, almost all major media outlets reported on it before the scandals. But no you're right it's me. It's the players.

I should note I am playing a MMO--FF14 which I think is better just because it's more casual, but I like WoW's art better tbh.

[Alroxas]

But it is--right now WoW as a game is built around power progression. All other content outside of the power progression is largely ignored and given next to no updates because the culture, the development, and the marketing all revolve around power progression.

Going to call 100% BS on this one. Case in point: Pet Battles. Pet Battle dungeons.

Want another a few more? Sure, let's do: Mount collecting. Achievement collecting. Transmogs (Specifically Trial of Style).

"Marketing around power progression?"

Hey did you see that Dragon mount pack on the launcher? How do we get that again? Oh that's right buying it from the Blizz store. Where's the power progression in that?

So when we have that established casual players hit a wall. What's the request? Something to do that's tied to power progression so they can keep up with everyone else.

Uh Valor point upgrade system. Valor cap being removed. Catch up gear systems (i.e. Korthian armor). Archivist Codex for Conduit upgrading.

Subs begin to bleed and WoW after an expansion loses upwards of 45% of active players because a large percentage of players are not having their needs fulfilled.

Even without catch-up mechanisms or player power progression, I'm still sure that subs would bleed in WoW after the draught of content we've had. Let's be clear, even if Blizzard gave (for free) BiS gear to all players in the first week/month of the xpac, you would still bleed players as content becomes exhausted.

It promotes abuse, exclusivity, and reason for players to try and separate themselves from one another.

I mean someone might say it promotes abuse to the well skilled player that they have to put up with players who don't have the same skill and knowledge level. I've done plenty of mid-level runs as a resto druid and it irritates me to no end when players don't kick Withering Discharge in Theater of Pain. Especially since as a resto druid, there are no tools to remove Withering Blight.

- - - Updated - - -

There should be severe consequences when you leave someone's key if something like that were to exist - even if it means you d/c'd. Like you can only queue for ToP for the rest of the week or you have to run with a full group of feral druids or you queue with other leavers.

Oh boy, I'd like for you to go read the numerous threads on why that's a bad idea.

Short version: Leaving by not really leaving but forcing someone else to leave first to get that "consequence".

Can be as simple as being passive = no longer attacking/tanking/healing but still moving around to prevent AFK timer to remove you.

Can be as "evil" as being "sloppy" = body pulling extra packs, pulling aggro on boss before everyone is ready, "purposely" screwing up mechanics, etc.

[NineSpine]

Im just here to watch people, as usual, insist that there aren't solutions to problems in wow that other MMOs figured out solutions to like.... 8-10 years ago. It's amazing what the wow brain worms do to people.

[Miffinat0r]

Im just here to watch people, as usual, insist that there aren't solutions to problems in wow that other MMOs figured out solutions to like.... 8-10 years ago. It's amazing what the wow brain worms do to people.

It's like they're convinced they have over 5 million players still. Meanwhile the market changes and players move and WoW players are like WE HAVE A SOUTHPARK EPISODE!

[Moggers1990]

More of the same. Game is losing players, almost all major media outlets reported on it before the scandals. But no you're right it's me. It's the players.

I should note I am playing a MMO--FF14 which I think is better just because it's more casual, but I like WoW's art better tbh.

??

Who cares if the game is losing players? It always has, and always will. People come and go constantly, it's more a "seasonal game" and was much worse before they added M+ into the game. Also people quitting the game because of the scandals are just majority bandwagon idiots and BECAUSE of petty people, Blizzard are spending so much time and effort re-naming NPC's and Achievements because they're "offensive". But even still, there is a content drought, people quit to play other games with recent content updates or something super casual, then they're back when the next patch hits. I actually only know 3 people who have quit the game recently out of my group of friends and guild, and two of them are because of real life stuff.

All that is irrelevant though. Just because the game has less players, means they should specifically cater to the casual player who doesn't put any effort into the game? While at the same time, destroying what it means to be an MMO? If anything, it's better that people are quitting; more chance you get invited to keys you sign up for.

There are also a ton more casual parts to the game than M+ though. M+ is essentially part of the end-game. Casuals actually have more content within the game than "hardcore players".

[Miffinat0r]

??

Who cares if the game is losing players? It always has, and always will. People come and go constantly, it's more a "seasonal game" and was much worse before they added M+ into the game. Also people quitting the game because of the scandals are just majority bandwagon idiots and BECAUSE of petty people, Blizzard are spending so much time and effort re-naming NPC's and Achievements because they're "offensive". But even still, there is a content drought, people quit to play other games with recent content updates or something super casual, then they're back when the next patch hits. I actually only know 3 people who have quit the game recently out of my group of friends and guild, and two of them are because of real life stuff.

All that is irrelevant though. Just because the game has less players, means they should specifically cater to the casual player who doesn't put any effort into the game? While at the same time, destroying what it means to be an MMO? If anything, it's better that people are quitting; more chance you get invited to keys you sign up for.

There are also a ton more casual parts to the game than M+ though. M+ is essentially part of the end-game. Casuals actually have more content within the game than "hardcore players".

You're advocating they make the game harder because of reasons? Essentially not learning that you have a former lead Director telling you verbatim that they have data proving everything you just said about the game to be wrong? Do I have that right?

[Zoibert the Bear]

In real life with scarcity? I'm very much a captialist.

In a virtual world where resources are infinite--communist.

But this isn't about being carried. It's about having a play and go feature at end game that lets you build your gear up just like everyone else without having to meet the approval of someone else. Pretty straightforward. Literally every other game has adopted this, and WoW is losing casual players; but no, you're right, everything is fine. In fact If I had to guess, we should make the game harder and more exclusive because that'll add players I mean Dark Souls is the most perfect game ever, right?

Other players time is the most valuable resource that bad players waste, this is definitely not infinite, I thought this was obvious.

Honestly, DS is probably not a great example. The Dark Souls series (and most FromSoft game for that matter) are incredibly successful, they treat the player like an actual human being that can adapt and -sorry to say it in these words- "git gud", that's a good thing. More players does not correlate to a better game or gaming experience, it just means the game is good at mazing you in.

If you like to play off meta classes, well, you're out of luck, I mained feral for years and know how much this sucks, but this is nothing new nor unique to M+. Gear and skill are the other two things that will set you back getting an invite, both of which can be solved by investing more time and being optimal in how you spend time in-game.

Or hey, just get boosted.

[Miffinat0r]

Other players time is the most valuable resource that bad players waste, this is definitely not infinite, I thought this was obvious.

Honestly, DS is probably not a great example. The Dark Souls series (and most FromSoft game for that matter) are incredibly successful, they treat the player like an actual human being that can adapt and -sorry to say it in these words- "git gud", that's a good thing. More players does not correlate to a better game or gaming experience, it just means the game is good at mazing you in.

If you like to play off meta classes, well, you're out of luck, I mained feral for years and know how much this sucks, but this is nothing new nor unique to M+. Gear and skill are the other two things that will set you back getting an invite, both of which can be solved by investing more time and being optimal in how you spend time in-game.

Or hey, just get boosted.

I mean or we quit. I also actively tell my friends to go to FF14 over WoW for these reasons we discussed. So far I personally blocked Blizz from getting 10 subs. Not something big, but hey I'm giving a fair assessment of the product.

[Moggers1990]

You're advocating they make the game harder because of reasons? Essentially not learning that you have a former lead Director telling you verbatim that they have data proving everything you just said about the game to be wrong? Do I have that right?

I am not saying they should make it harder, you're just assuming that for some reason.

I just don't want them to make it easier, or completely gut the game of whatever "MMO" it has left. There is zero reason why everything should be automated. Do you really just want to log on, queue up, do a few dungeons/raid without any interaction apart from abusing people because they suck, then log off? Yeah, sounds like a fucking great game to me.

It's not the game that needs to be more casual-friendly, it already is. People just want the game to be easy when they don't have people to play with and they have to do everything by themselves.

[Miffinat0r]

I am not saying they should make it harder, you're just assuming that for some reason.

I just don't want them to make it easier, or completely gut the game of whatever "MMO" it has left. There is zero reason why everything should be automated. Do you really just want to log on, queue up, do a few dungeons/raid without any interaction apart from abusing people because they suck, then log off? Yeah, sounds like a fucking great game to me.

It's not the game that needs to be more casual-friendly, it already is. People just want the game to be easy when they don't have people to play with and they have to do everything by themselves.

Again but we've been over this; There's never been an exodus because a game got too easy. This fear is unfounded.

[Twdft]

I just find it funny that people are arguing against a queue up tool for M+ as though they would be bound to use it. Its like arguing against allowing people to pug raids while already being in a raiding guild that you raid with. Its about giving people more options to form groups.

Auto queued dungeon have a deserved expection to be completed if you stick with it. The part of m+ that can be auto queued will be nerfed to be beatable by everyone the system lets into it. Just look at lfr. There was a time when the raid group needed to be at least halfway competent, but even that skill ceiling was above the ability of the target audience, and lfr was (rightly so imo) nerfed to the ground. That will happen with autoqueue m+ too.

And if you think yeah well so what if an autoqueue +7 would be easier than a manual +7, if they give the same rewards you can bet your last gold on auto being abused to high heaven. And if they don't give the same rewards then what's even the point. Just play heroic

[Polybius]

No thanks. That’s how Heroic mode died.

[Kokolums]

Again but we've been over this; There's never been an exodus because a game got too easy. This fear is unfounded.

yes there has. when content is too easy. it becomes a chore to do. and there is a ton of content that has gotten so easy and mind-numbing that it has become a list of chores. and doing laundry every day drives people away.

[Berndorf]

Auto queued dungeon have a deserved expection to be completed if you stick with it. The part of m+ that can be auto queued will be nerfed to be beatable by everyone the system lets into it. Just look at lfr. There was a time when the raid group needed to be at least halfway competent, but even that skill ceiling was above the ability of the target audience, and lfr was (rightly so imo) nerfed to the ground. That will happen with autoqueue m+ too.

And if you think yeah well so what if an autoqueue +7 would be easier than a manual +7, if they give the same rewards you can bet your last gold on auto being abused to high heaven. And if they don't give the same rewards then what's even the point. Just play heroic

It wouldn't even need to go that high. Some of you just have such mental blocks about how things would be implemented and always expecting the worst. The current system would need to be changed slightly to implement a queue tool but it wouldn't be hard. Most players with minimal skill/gear/knowledge can complete +1-4's. Granted sometimes it would fail but back in the day groups could could also fail in heroics. Big deal.

[Moggers1990]

Again but we've been over this; There's never been an exodus because a game got too easy. This fear is unfounded.

That is so completely wrong it's unreal. If a game is too easy, then it's not engaging. If it's not engaging, then it's not fun. If it's not fun, then what is the point in playing?

Are you saying that if the hardest key was a +5 and the hardest raid difficulty was normal then you would still enjoy it?
What if all mount drops were buffed to a 50% chance? Would you enjoy mount farming if you got them all within a few weeks?
If every class was reduced to 3 spells that you pressed in order as they popped up, you would enjoy playing your spec?

If you think a game being too easy isn't a bad thing, you're actually mental.

This has literally happened before in WoW though. Emerald Nightmare was notoriously easy. It was cleared in what, 17 hours? People quit the game then months and months earlier than is "usual" because of that, even "casual raiders". People stayed because M+ was suddenly a thing (surprise surprise), but without that then the game would have bled players like nothing before.

[Khaza-R]

I think M0 should get a queue in LFD. Its really just what heroic used to be a this point with heroic essentially being pointless in Shadowlands.

But anything keyed should not.

[Wavebossa]

Certain classes and or certain specs are just simply not invited to anything higher then a 9 for the most part.

Lol. Please name the classes that cannot get invited to anything higher than a 9

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

This is a self made problem anyway. Its bizarre how condescending people are being in this thread. This idea would destroy M+, for little to no reason.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

It can't have a queue. Too many factors lead to success in M+.
If they ever remove the keystone system, or at least how failure is processed through it, it can potentially work, but no one should want this.
Would you want your keystone formed without any consent of who is going to do it?

This just isn't that type of content.

[Kokolums]

Some of you just have such mental blocks about how things would be implemented and always expecting the worst.

I've been playing blizzard games since the late 1990s. All I ever see on forums is an endless stream of people coming in and asking for god mode to one shot everything. They either ask for it directly, or hide it in some sort of plea to nerf everything. So yeah, I expect the worst.