i5-9600k & RAM -> Upgrade + Cooling advice

[Nerph-]

Hello!

Just under 3 years ago I spoke with a former guild member about building a new PC. After taking his advice (which I'm not so sure was good), I built the following:

Case: Lian Li PC-O11 Dynamic + lots of Corsair LL120 fans + Commander Pro Controller
CPU: Intel Core i5-9600k
Cooler: Corsair H100i Pro AiO cooler
Mobo: ASUS Prime Z390-A
RAM: 4 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO DDR4-2666MHz
GPU: MSI RTX 2070 GAMING Z 8G
PSU: Corsair RM750x

Storage: 250GB NVMe M.2 SSD for Windows, 500GB NVMe M.2 SSD for games, 2TB 7200RPM HDD for other shit.

Monitors: Currently have 2 monitors hooked up, 1x 27" 1440p 144Hz monitor (main monitor) and 1x 24" 1080p 60Hz (secondary monitor). I plan to change the secondary one to a 27" 1440p monitor, just to have the same size and same resolution on both monitors.

I use the computer for gaming (various games like WoW, RDR2, so both CPU and GPU "intensive") but also for programming python and running Virtual Box with Kali for pen testing, and so on.

So, here come the questions:

• What is the most important thing to upgrade first when it comes to getting better performance? I'm assuming DDR4-3200 RAM or a better CPU?
• What are peoples experience with fan vs AiO coolers? If I was to switch CPU, I'd consider switching to a fan cooler.

I was looking at the i7-9700k, mainly for hyper-threading. Will I notice a difference?

Oh and lastly, I don't really overclock. I'd like to try it at some point but not at this point in time.

Thanks!

Edit: Hmmm, just checked and seems my mobo can't take DDR4-3200

[Kagthul]

You have very little to gain and a lot of money to waste "upgrading" to a 9700K.

Especially for several years ago, the 9600K was a great choice, so your guildie didnt steer you totally wrong.

My rig uses an 8600K and its still quite capable of 144hz 1440p paired with a 3080. (There is no functional difference between the 8600K and 9600K - theyre basically the exact same chip. )

a 9700K might cost a couple hundred bucks and youd be looking at... some performance gains, maybe, in VMs and extremely heavy workloads (which it doesn't sound like you're doing - your VM use seems decidedly mid-range), but for gaming you will see pretty much nothing. Most games still dont take serious advantage of more th an 3-4 threads, so hyperthreading really isnt going to help you.

You're better off, at this point, riding this out, or if you simply feel you MUST upgrade right now..

wait a couple of weeks and get a 12700 non-K with a DDR4 capable B660 motherboard. It will handily curb stomp your 9600K in multithreaded tasks (what with 8 P-cores w/HT and 4 E-cores) it clocks high right out of the box (no need to OC, which has shown pretty diminishing returns on Alder Lake anyway since the chips, like modern Ryzen chips, basically clock themselves up as high as they can given thermal limits, up to their "max"). You can keep your RAM for now (though investing in some 3600 speed CL16 RAM might net you some noticable, if not massive, performance gain) and the rest of the rig.

Otherwise... that machine is still plenty capable as is. A 9600K is still a great chip, and a 2070 is still an extremely solid GPU.

[Nerph-]

Thanks for the detailed reply! I shall wait it out then for now.

[marulol]

Thanks for the detailed reply! I shall wait it out then for now.

Wait for zen 4 CPUs. I'm also using a 9600k overclocked at 4.4ghz. it still has no issue running games. But I do plan on upgrading in the next year or so.

[rogoth]

if was you, personally i would look to flip the mobo/CPU/RAM as a package deal on ebay/facebbok marketplace/craigslist etc and try and recoup much of what was spent on those, with the current market you might even be able to get back ~90% of the cost, i would then invest in an AMD based system, can get really good B550 boards that aren't too expensive, and the 5600X just got a major discount recently so is cheaper now than it has ever been, for productivity workloads AMD is by far the better option over Intel, and while Intel may technically have clawed back the 'gaming crown' from AMD with the alderlake release, it did so with almost no room for expansion, whereas AMD is launching the new 3d vcache CPU(s) soon and an entirely new socket and platform later this year, so because of that i wouldn't be looking at DDR5/alderlake for now, stick with AM4 and DDR4 for the time being and look to improve from that.

[Kagthul]

I mean, im not saying NOT to wait for Zen 4, but there's no evidence that Zen 4 is going to be magically better than Alder Lake, and there's a serious likleyhood it wont see the light of day till Q3 or later (as they are still planning on releasing Zen3-3D as late as June). By that time, Intel is going to be readying Raptor Lake.

My "wait it out" advice was more... keep on using it until it doesn't do what you need it to do as quickly as you need it to do so. Zen 4 (when it gets here) will be a great upgradae, if you need it then, as Alder Lake is right now (if you need it now), and Raptor Lake will be at the end of next year.

[Gaidax]

9700k does not have hyperthreading, it simply has 2 more actual cores.

9900k has 2 more cores AND hyperthreading, so if you want to max out your existing setup you'd upgrade to that.

Now, whether that is actually worth your time and money? I'd say if you can find 9900k for around 200-ish $$, then go for it - it can be possible because that's like 3 gens off already. It would extend life of your rig by another year or two. Any more than that - and it's pointless.

- - - Updated - - -

Of course verify your motherboard BIOS is up to date and supports 9900k before doing that.

- - - Updated - - -

Update 2: also don't waste your time rebuying RAM. Your whole CPU upgrade venture is questionable as is, getting a tiny bit faster RAM? That's a waste of your time for sure.

[Temp name]

What is the most important thing to upgrade first when it comes to getting better performance? I'm assuming DDR4-3200 RAM or a better CPU?

Probably RAM, but I'm not sure I'd bother. I'd wait for the AMD 7000 series to come out, or just bite the bullet on an Intel 12000 series, though in both cases you'd also need new MOBO and RAM. I'd also check online if you want to buy the intel since they're using a new micro-architecture, and that might not play well with your work tools

What are peoples experience with fan vs AiO coolers? If I was to switch CPU, I'd consider switching to a fan cooler.

Gonna assume you mean air/tower cooler instead of fan.. Honestly there's not much difference outside of the cost. It's all about how much surface area you have to remove the heat from the CPU, and a good AiO is as good as a good tower cooler, though more expensive. As long as your cooler works, I see no reason to replace it.

I was looking at the i7-9700k, mainly for hyper-threading. Will I notice a difference?

Don't, the 9700k doesn't have hyperthreading, you'd have to step up to the 9900k. Will you notice a difference? Probably not for gaming. Maybe for work, but I'm not sure how much

[Velerios]

I mean, im not saying NOT to wait for Zen 4, but there's no evidence that Zen 4 is going to be magically better than Alder Lake, and there's a serious likleyhood it wont see the light of day till Q3 or later (as they are still planning on releasing Zen3-3D as late as June). By that time, Intel is going to be readying Raptor Lake.

My "wait it out" advice was more... keep on using it until it doesn't do what you need it to do as quickly as you need it to do so. Zen 4 (when it gets here) will be a great upgradae, if you need it then, as Alder Lake is right now (if you need it now), and Raptor Lake will be at the end of next year.

I think personally that "upgrading" to Zen 4 would be quite wastefull, especially now that the socket is changing. Better wait until Zen 4 comes out, then upgrade to an am4 motherboard with Zen 2 or 3 or even the new Ryzen 5800X3D that is coming.
But buying Zen4 right now not only you pay quite a premium for the Motherboard, but also it probably only comes with DDR5 RAM, and they are still far too expensive.

[Yizu]

Dont bother upgrading your cpu to 9700k if you are using a 2070@1440p. You are not going to gain anything.

[Unrealsiego]

500gb for games seems rather low unless you only play one game, there are some cheap nvm 2tb and sata ssd 4tb out there.

[Manakuski]

If you don't want to buy a new motherboard, an i9-9900k is the only option to upgrade to (comes with hyperthreading, i7 9700k does not) and yes your motherboard can take up to DDR4 3800/4000 with XMP enabled most likely with 4x 8gb sticks.

For value, probably 32gb of DDR 3600 CL16 memory would be the best.

Also update your bios.

[Ange]

I mean, im not saying NOT to wait for Zen 4, but there's no evidence that Zen 4 is going to be magically better than Alder Lake, and there's a serious likleyhood it wont see the light of day till Q3 or later (as they are still planning on releasing Zen3-3D as late as June). By that time, Intel is going to be readying Raptor Lake.

AFAIK both Raptor Lake and ZEN4 are delayed by a few months, so it could be end of Q3 for Raptor Lake and End of Q4 for ZEN4, but availability is a thing with Intel releases, that was not the case with any AM4 release. I would expect 2+ months after AMDs ZEN4 paper release, just as it happened pre and post COVID.

Alder Lake / Raptor Lake and especially Meteor Lake with the real deal in manufacturing changes (the new process with logic and power sides in manufacturing, with massive efficiency implications) are on a very short schedule (annual), while Raptor Lake might hit very close to ZEN4, the even bigger gun with Meteor Lake - will leave a big "impact" not even a year later.

Its a good thing, at least competition from both big brands, but Intel with its much tighter schedule is a different beast compared to AMD in CPU features. That Alder Lake includes allready some AI accelerators and other features not even targeted for ZEN4 or ZEN5, could change a lot in a very short time frame. It needs one killer feature a la DLSS for desktop CPUs in software and AMD is on the backseat with their feature starved / budget-efficiency trimmed CPU designs.

The big question with AM5 is how the new memory controller will deal with DDR5 (or even DDR4 compatibility? I would not expect a DDR4 hybrid mode) and how the PCI-E 5.0 storage implementation will be.

AM4 failed till today with a propper PCI-E 4.0 implementation for fast storage, so its not really a given that they do a better job with PCI-E 5.0

ZEN5 will be more interesting. Since we saw how fast and clean WINTEL introduced big.LITTLE + thread director, we will see how AMD competes in 2023 against third generation big.LITTLE (Meteor Lake) versus their own implementation without the Microsoft connection.

[Nerph-]

Just been through all the replies, thanks everyone! I'm just going to wait it out and upgrade mobo, cpu and ram all in one go sometime in the future.

[Nerph-]

AMD has committed to the AM5 socket having a similar lifespawn to AM4, so if their next set of processors is any good it’s something to look at. Upgrading down the line would be a much bigger step up.

So if I understand it right, that means AMD processors for the next coming generations will use the AM5 socket? It's definitely something that annoys me with Intel, having to change mobo so quickly because of different sockets.

How long a lifespan has AM4 had?

[Kagthul]

Probably RAM, but I'm not sure I'd bother. I'd wait for the AMD 7000 series to come out, or just bite the bullet on an Intel 12000 series, though in both cases you'd also need new MOBO and RAM.

You do not need new RAM for Alder Lake. There are plenty of DDR4 boards, especially in the newly revealed H670 and B660 setups. And at current speeds, there's almost no benefit to DDR5 outside of extremely specific workloads.

[Nerph-]

Will I need DDR5 ram with the Zen 4 (AM5) CPU's? Or will there be motherboards that use DDR4?

[rogoth]

So if I understand it right, that means AMD processors for the next coming generations will use the AM5 socket? It's definitely something that annoys me with Intel, having to change mobo so quickly because of different sockets.

How long a lifespan has AM4 had?

the AM4 platform has had 4 generations of CPU, from the ryzen 1000 series when it first launched, through the 2000 series, codenamed 'zen+', 3000 series codenamed 'zen 2', and finally the 5000 series codenamed 'zen 3', the 'zen' architecture has been around now for 5 years, and as stated AMD has officially committed to long term support of their new AM5 socket platform stating they expect the lifespan to similar if not longer than AM4, so unlike INTEL if you were to buy a new AM5 motherboard when they become available later this year, it's likely you would be able to use it for at least 2 new generations of CPU before needing to buy a revision board for new features and new tech etc for later CPU generations, honestly, having seen some of the leaked performance data for 'zen 4' i think it's well worth the wait for it if like you you're running an older system.

[Nerph-]

Alright, once again thanks to everyone for your advice and the information, it's very much appreciated

[rogoth]

I’ve heard both, until an official announcement we dunno though.

as of the latest official statements AM5 and 'zen 4' are DDR5 exclusive, while it's not out of the realm of possibility they do what INTEL did and launch both DDR4 and DDR5 versions of AM5 boards, i can also see them not doing that due to costs and wanting the new platform to be using the 'best' option available, and hopefully by the time AM5 launches, DDR5 'should' be in a better supply state than it is currently.