WoW has to be inviting for young gamers - but it's not

[loras]

Yeah. I also hate, that F2Pish money milking is hidden behind content stretching in order to make it look fair. If you want my money - just say it directly, instead of mocking me. Don't pretend, that I pay for "playing content".

Exactly, i'm happy to pay for content i like, but it's mostly companies that structurally balk at creating either stuff that qualifies as content or as being likeable, so they try the easy route with mobile games and in-game purchases.

[melzas]

well actualy you dont buy the game,you only need a sub to play everything pre current expansion,so you only buy the latest expansion

also the token makes wow very cheap,i havent spent real money on a sub in years,or on any expansion since the token came

making gold is also very easy,just find a half decent guild that wants to boost,in wod we had 2 of our main raiders start the game in wod and by the time hellfire came out they were progressing mythic with us and on the boosting team

Yes, I'm sure a lot of newcomers who just started to play WoW will make enough gold through boosts to buy tokens.... Do you even read the thread you reply to?

[cparle87]

MMOs aren't really a genre for kids, bar toontown and club penguin which were specifically made for kids. Teenagers look to competitive PvP games like fortnite and LoL. WoW had a good competitive PvP scene for a few expansions, but class simplification and pruning as well as MAU-milking gearing changes crippled it.

MAU-milking like actually having to level and gear up your characters? Funny the guy a few above you is saying the problem is the removal of RPG elements while you say it's the opposite: that the characters don't come fully equipped and ready to play at competitive levels.

[Mysterymask]

MAU-milking like actually having to level and gear up your characters? Funny the guy a few above you is saying the problem is the removal of RPG elements while you say it's the opposite: that the characters don't come fully equipped and ready to play at competitive levels.

In this thread players of an ancient MMO wonder why other people don't think like them

[Soon-TM]

Damn, some comments ITT look like they are coming from The Comics Guy (from the Simpsons). Or alternatively, from the stereotypical angry, senile old guy: "get out of my lawn you dirty, entitled little shits!" while shaking his cane.

It is worrying, but it would be even more worrying if devs happened to share such a mindset.

[TBCCLOL]

Wonder why FF / LoL / LA are more for "young" people than "old" mmo c south park guys.

Also this "young" and "old" stuff is pretty bs



Online games and especially RPG one doesnt need to cather to young or old but just to respect your time

[Ange]

In this thread players of an ancient MMO wonder why other people don't think like them

While you can talk about "ancient MMOs" as you want, but the topic with SUBs and time-gated content was allways an issue for younger players.

Pretty looking tripple-A titles have to deal with "angry" customers who dont like the "poorly optimized" game that wont run on a 500$ system that they got 5 years ago.
SUB based MMOs like WoW have to deal with the same type of player and argumentations because the SUB alone hits their monthly allowance significant enough that it matters to their hobby/time spend.

The whole GRIND/MAU topic is a constant reminder that a transparent SUB system is still to much for the average gamer and it shows why forced console models with hidden ingame gambling is much easier for this kind of gamers/users, because they simply dont see it, while pay same or more for their hobby.

While people meme since classic so much about the new generation of gamers, with how different they are, the discussions that are still about the same basic topics show that nothing changed.

[klaps_05]

It has to, if it cared to stay relevant. Given blizzard has done nearly nothing to promote the game even in the last 5 years, its just a cash cow for them for a few more years.

[Gaidax]

This is a 18 years old boomer game.

Expectations of it being hip when the whole gaming scene moved on are pretty out of whack.

Even if hypothetically, Blizzard would somehow pull out a miracle and facelift the game to what said young gamers prefer nowadays - it would just likely end up alienating the existing boomer playerbase like me, while not necessarily even attracting said new gen gamers.

At which point - I'd rather them not mess up the few remaining strong points of WoW, attempting to fish in muddy waters.

---

As a side note, this notion of harder game at base level supposedly being more attractive to masses is a bunch of bullshit that failed time and time again. I'd think one would have learned from failures of Wildstar, but apparently not.

---

Also



It's like... c'mon bruh...

[Blackmist]

It's not inviting to any gamers. Young one, old ones, nobody wants to start because there's nothing holding it together apart from the veteran players who have too much "invested".

And they're leaving too.

[salate]

Actually my friend who left during Wotlk said that WoW style became (visually) more appealing for children, dunno why he thought that, maybe because of working experience . No idea

But in reality the game throws too much in your face imo.

[confety]

You berate another poster about comparing FF14 & wows difficulty in raids, then proceed to do the same. Genious!

I'd like you to prove that you can literally stand still throughout a HC fight and still perform well enough for your raid team. Also, more buttons doesnt automatically mean you actually click them. In old versions of wow we had 2194871 abilities and used a couple of them. As with most MMORPGs people find out what the best talents are and what buttons to actually press. In most cases, most is deemed useless.

HCs might be "easier" if you run with a guild/raid team compared to 25 randoms in LFR, but the again - Try pugging HC mode in wow and enjoy the shitshow. I have never ever been in a LFR raid that hasnt cleared every boss.


And no, mythic is not overtuned. There are guilds out there clearing it every week.

Saying that one game is not harder than the other is not a comparison tho, both games have different raid styles.

Yes, you can literally stand still in a lot of fights with the ocassional get out of the puddle that spawned beneath you in heroic

The 1 to 4 button was mostly to make the point that heroic difficulty, that is ff14 equivalent of savage, is not as hard as people try to convince others, i saw no real difference in skill needed in killing shriekwing with my warlock hugging a pillar than killing Sludgefist with my rogue while following his ass jumping around.

And yes, before mythic is nerfed, it is a buggy overtuned crap, that is why some kills need 300 pulls while nobody is improving his gear because some weird thing happens and blizz has to fix it.


The point is that comparing both games difficulty is stupid and only shows that whoever is talking about one game without trying the other just to be edgy or tribalistic is weird.

- - - Updated - - -

About the threads discussion, i guess the simplest answer is how easy to start playing are the games that younger people use to play nowadays.

Back when i started playing wow, we had CS, warcraft 3, AOE2 and the like, not everyone had a computer, and console internet games were not as common.

After WOTLK, consoles with online gaming, and lobby games appearing everywhere, playing online was super easy and every match was fast and intense.

Young people want to press a button, select a hero and start playing, not buying a game and spend 3 weeks leveling up and gearing a character plus systems.

Its all about current games accesibility as i see with my younger cousins/niece/friends little bro/etc imho

[crusadernero]

Saying that one game is not harder than the other is not a comparison tho, both games have different raid styles.

Yes, you can literally stand still in a lot of fights with the ocassional get out of the puddle that spawned beneath you in heroic

The 1 to 4 button was mostly to make the point that heroic difficulty, that is ff14 equivalent of savage, is not as hard as people try to convince others, i saw no real difference in skill needed in killing shriekwing with my warlock hugging a pillar than killing Sludgefist with my rogue while following his ass jumping around.

And yes, before mythic is nerfed, it is a buggy overtuned crap, that is why some kills need 300 pulls while nobody is improving his gear because some weird thing happens and blizz has to fix it.


The point is that comparing both games difficulty is stupid and only shows that whoever is talking about one game without trying the other just to be edgy or tribalistic is weird.

I have never understood why people have the need to discuss difficulties and compare MMORPGs to it. Even though wow has mythic raiding, most players dont do it at all. Why? Even though wow has very high m+ keys, most people dont really push for higher and higher keys(thus more difficult). Why is that?

Most players dont do the hardest raids in FF14 either as far as I know. Why is that?

Player A only searches for really hard content and is only happy when he finds it and eventually clears it.
Player B dont care about hard content and enjoys others aspects of the game.

Neither of them are in the wrong here. It just so happens that both players play the same game in different ways.

Whatever MMORPG has the "hardest" raids/dungeons is a wasted discussion. If most MMORPG players wanted that, they would never have played wow in the first place. A game like Wildstar would have been going strong today if that was the case, but it isnt. "hard" content in group content has for some reason become the benchmark for MMORPGs.

What you find mindnumbingly easy(HC raiding) were you press 1-4 buttons and semiafk through bossfights, is not for others.

[Osmeric]

FF14 in it's entirety is literly LFR knock off wow in it's difficulty. A game that has mechanics that are so blatantly telelgraphed that a 4 yo can do it, is not a good game. Players who play FF14 are bottom of the barrel.

And yet, for all that you disparage it, people moved from WoW to it. So WoW right now, in the objective judgment of the market, is even worse. (That judgment is why the WoW defenders get so irate at the streamers: they don't like the painful truth the streamers are revealing.)

[confety]

I have never understood why people have the need to discuss difficulties and compare MMORPGs to it. Even though wow has mythic raiding, most players dont do it at all. Why? Even though wow has very high m+ keys, most people dont really push for higher and higher keys(thus more difficult). Why is that?

Most players dont do the hardest raids in FF14 either as far as I know. Why is that?

Player A only searches for really hard content and is only happy when he finds it and eventually clears it.
Player B dont care about hard content and enjoys others aspects of the game.

Neither of them are in the wrong here. It just so happens that both players play the same game in different ways.

Whatever MMORPG has the "hardest" raids/dungeons is a wasted discussion. If most MMORPG players wanted that, they would never have played wow in the first place. A game like Wildstar would have been going strong today if that was the case, but it isnt. "hard" content in group content has for some reason become the benchmark for MMORPGs.

What you find mindnumbingly easy(HC raiding) were you press 1-4 buttons and semiafk through bossfights, is not for others.

Yeah i agree with everything what you are saying, just trying to make ppl understand that "my game harder than yours" is just a dumb statement and everyone can play the "this is so easy for me bruh" card, just let people play how they want and wish your game to be better for everyone

[WowIsDead64]

Exactly, i'm happy to pay for content i like, but it's mostly companies that structurally balk at creating either stuff that qualifies as content or as being likeable, so they try the easy route with mobile games and in-game purchases.

Yeah. It will take 17 days min to unlock flying. What is real purpose of this gating? To see content on a ground first? I don't think, that it's real reason. There is nothing interesting there to see on a ground. It's again that "You have to do content for 17 days, even if you don't want to do it", i.e. taking flying as hostage to blackmail players. For what purpose? To stretch content by that 17 days? Why can't I just pay that 8.5$ and enjoy game at day 1 and wouldn't waste my time, if they want my money so much? Because some other players, who wouldn't do it, would threat it as unfair advantage? May be we should stop it already? It's the same thing, as paying for lootboxes. Everybody knows, that you actually pay for chance to get rare reward. But everybody pretends, that you pay for some crappy tiny bit of useless ingame currency, you get instead.

[Asrialol]

Watch out, before you know it Blizzard will create some sort of Tiktok integration into the game.

[Azerox]

Young people dont wanna work for things anymore, they just wanna buy it with daddy's CC.
That's why gaming is being ruined with micro transactions (etc) nowadays.

[crusadernero]

Yeah. It will take 17 days min to unlock flying. What is real purpose of this gating? To see content on a ground first? I don't think, that it's real reason. There is nothing interesting there to see on a ground. It's again that "You have to do content for 17 days, even if you don't want to do it", i.e. taking flying as hostage to blackmail players. For what purpose? To stretch content by that 17 days? Why can't I just pay that 8.5$ and enjoy game at day 1 and wouldn't waste my time, if they want my money so much? Because some other players, who wouldn't do it, would threat it as unfair advantage? May be we should stop it already? It's the same thing, as paying for lootboxes. Everybody knows, that you actually pay for chance to get rare reward. But everybody pretends, that you pay for some crappy tiny bit of useless ingame currency, you get instead.

I dont understand why Blizzard is messing about so much with flying. The req should be when new xpac launches:
Lvl to max.
Complete quests in each zone.
Complete the major questline.
Flying unlocked.

From there, let us just fly in each zone from get go. Theres no reason why we cant fly from the beginning. At most, make us complete a questline that entails the new zone. A questline that can be done in a day. ANd ofc, let it be account wide.

I'd rather them just remove flying then keep messing about like this. Its disrespectful towards the players.

[Osmeric]

Young people dont wanna work for things anymore, they just wanna buy it with daddy's CC.
That's why gaming is being ruined with micro transactions (etc) nowadays.

Microtransactions are there because the major cost of playing a game is the value of your time. This far exceeds the paltry $15/month you might pay for a sub.