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  1. #1

    How to solve most looting issues in the game.

    Each boss you kill in the game will accumulate 1 point for 1 kill; say for example you kill sylvanas mythic twice in 2 weeks: you have 2 points; you can have 2 points on that boss and 4 points on another boss after 4 weeks etc. etc.

    Every week: vault-improved will give you the opportunity to choose one specific boss; if you have 3 kill points on that boss: you get to choose one item; only 1 item from 1 boss of course to not make it ridiculous.
    "If you have questions or suggestions about moderation, you go to a global (blue) moderator with them and discuss the matter in PMs. These kinds of discussions NEVER work out in public." xskarma, global moderator off mmo-champion, defender of democracy

  2. #2
    So, 3 clears and you get to choose one item from all bosses? So, 3 weeks after release everyone and their mothers are close to bis geared. Near guaranteed after 6.

    Or, after 3 clears of nothing, you get to pick one boss a week for 3 points; for one item a week? While racking up 1 point per boss a week extra you can't ever use. Meaning in a 10 boss raid you'll gain 7 out of 10 points every week that you can never use, as long as you keep clearing and picking items. Stacking infinitely. Even worse.
    Last edited by Azadina; 2022-01-12 at 09:45 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    Each boss you kill in the game will accumulate 1 point for 1 kill; say for example you kill sylvanas mythic twice in 2 weeks: you have 2 points; you can have 2 points on that boss and 4 points on another boss after 4 weeks etc. etc.

    Every week: vault-improved will give you the opportunity to choose one specific boss; if you have 3 kill points on that boss: you get to choose one item; only 1 item from 1 boss of course to not make it ridiculous.
    Such feature was called "Valor points" back when Wow was on it's peak. It was removed, because Blizzard decided, that it was soooooo boring to be able to work towards your goal. Don't get me wrong. My opinion: RNG isn't bad - RNG-gating is. RNG - is feature, that should make each gaming session different - not gate your rewards behind arbitrary unknown amount of attempts, causing Skinner chamber effect.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    So, 3 clears and you get to choose one item from all bosses? So, 3 weeks after release everyone and their mothers are close to bis geared. Near guaranteed after 6.

    Or, after 3 clears of nothing, you get to pick one boss a week for 3 points; for one item a week? While racking up 1 point per boss a week extra you can't ever use. Meaning in a 10 boss raid you'll gain 7 out of 10 points every week that you can never use, as long as you keep clearing and picking items. Stacking infinitely. Even worse.
    It's ridiculous how you defend a predatory game design.

    What is good design then, 1 boss with per raid that drops only 1 item for 20 players?
    And everyone should have 50 item slots so they can farm that 1 boss for 100 weeks if there are no duplicates?

    No, what we need it a SHITLOAD more bosses PER raid tier!
    Design them fun and engaging, separate them across multiple instances (!!!) with their own designs, whats so hard about this? Making "interesting" rooms and 3D models?
    Hell, give WoW code to the player base and I guarantee you that modders will do a much better job at ALL of those things.
    Care about balance? Just brute force with machine learning algorithms and all problems all solved.

    Geez, you cannot imagine a better game than what Blizzard gave us?

  5. #5
    What makes you think they want to "solve" looting?

    If it takes you longer to get your gear, that's "more" "content". You'll subscribe longer. You'll play more. These are things they measure, and if you do them, it means you're having "fun".

    Think of how proud they'll be in their quarterly shareholder meetings, when they manage to find statistically accurate but financially meaningless things to say about all their failing titles.

  6. #6
    Maybe instead when you enter a raid there's a vendor where you just buy whatever gear you want for free then you just have to deal with killing the boss but the raid boss is exponentially harder and mythic only to account for the fact that everyone's already geared. Hell you don't even have to raid once it releases you can go in get fully geared without killing any bosses and then farm world quests and old raid till you're blue in the face

    Or you can just buy a fucking single player game

  7. #7
    How to solve loot issues:

    “Just give me loot”

  8. #8
    The gear treadmill is a really big part of the game and probably the biggest carrot.
    How dare you wanting to "finish" your character? Back on the treadmill soldier!

    Now excuse me while i play any job i want in savage because gearing adequately towards that hasn't given me an aneurysm.

  9. #9
    It's actually even simpler than that ... just add raid valor points and a vendor with all the items. They can require at least 2-3 kills on the boss that drops the item and take 2 clears worth of points to purchase an item. This will act as a "bad luck protection" so you can actually fill in what never drops for you and not the only gearing way.

    But ... as has been said already ... what makes you think they want that? The goal is to keep you on the treadmill forever which is why when they removed TF/sockets they also removed the bonus rolls.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Such feature was called "Valor points" back when Wow was on it's peak. It was removed, because Blizzard decided, that it was soooooo boring to be able to work towards your goal. Don't get me wrong. My opinion: RNG isn't bad - RNG-gating is. RNG - is feature, that should make each gaming session different - not gate your rewards behind arbitrary unknown amount of attempts, causing Skinner chamber effect.
    VP allowed you to buy some items, fill in SOME gaps. It didn't give you the items of your choice and it wasn't meant as a working for your goals system. It was more like bad luck protection, if you were super unlucky with loot you could at least get some stuff.
    More casual players eventually reasoned that it was designed for them, because you could get VP also from dungeon and buy raid quality gear with it. But that was never the main point of it.

    That being said, pvp is like that now but has requirements. So any implementation of this in pve will lead to the exact same effect - buy a boost for whatever requirement, making this effectively pay to win (let's not discuss semanthics). There should still be some incentive to being part of a guild and playing with friends in this mmo, even if it is as little as having to go to a raid every week because RNG. While everyone appreciates being able to work towards their goal solo, I think we are forgetting the point of this game. It is not GETTING something, it is playing with a group and efforts and incentive should be channeled towards that.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    It's ridiculous how you defend a predatory game design.

    What is good design then, 1 boss with per raid that drops only 1 item for 20 players?
    And everyone should have 50 item slots so they can farm that 1 boss for 100 weeks if there are no duplicates?

    No, what we need it a SHITLOAD more bosses PER raid tier!
    Design them fun and engaging, separate them across multiple instances (!!!) with their own designs, whats so hard about this? Making "interesting" rooms and 3D models?
    Hell, give WoW code to the player base and I guarantee you that modders will do a much better job at ALL of those things.
    Care about balance? Just brute force with machine learning algorithms and all problems all solved.

    Geez, you cannot imagine a better game than what Blizzard gave us?
    I need some of what you're having. Especially after the work today.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  12. #12
    Remember back in the good old day when you didnt need to have bis in every slot, you geared until you had enough to clear the bosses and then you start over again in next raid.

    Now its like, if i dont have bis in every slot when 9.2 comes out it most mean that there is a loot issue, you dont need to have bis in every slot to clear the raid, and even if you managed to get bis in every slot, no one except you cares.

  13. #13
    Loot in Shadowlands has been dealt with in a good way after the showering of gear in BfA. It lose a lot of value if you get it all the time.
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  14. #14
    No thank you.

    I like how it is right now.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Such feature was called "Valor points" back when Wow was on it's peak. It was removed, because Blizzard decided, that it was soooooo boring to be able to work towards your goal.
    You say it like VP wasn't complained about all the time back in the day.

    I mean I agree it was the superior system, but its not like Blizzard decide on its own that VP was bad. Complaints about 'wellfare epics' and gear being too easy was pretty rampant during TBC - MoP.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    So, 3 clears and you get to choose one item from all bosses? So, 3 weeks after release everyone and their mothers are close to bis geared. Near guaranteed after 6.

    Or, after 3 clears of nothing, you get to pick one boss a week for 3 points; for one item a week? While racking up 1 point per boss a week extra you can't ever use. Meaning in a 10 boss raid you'll gain 7 out of 10 points every week that you can never use, as long as you keep clearing and picking items. Stacking infinitely. Even worse.
    In at least the 4th week you can pick only 1 item from the entire raid (or 1 item from all 5mans). I don't see how that "would gear everyone and their mothers to bis fast" (PS there is no bis; that's a fallacy of people who don't get simulations and how the game works).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Such feature was called "Valor points" back when Wow was on it's peak. It was removed, because Blizzard decided, that it was soooooo boring to be able to work towards your goal. Don't get me wrong. My opinion: RNG isn't bad - RNG-gating is. RNG - is feature, that should make each gaming session different - not gate your rewards behind arbitrary unknown amount of attempts, causing Skinner chamber effect.
    I'm pretty sure valor could not get all items dropped from any boss of the tier (raiding or 5man), correct me if I'm wrong.
    "If you have questions or suggestions about moderation, you go to a global (blue) moderator with them and discuss the matter in PMs. These kinds of discussions NEVER work out in public." xskarma, global moderator off mmo-champion, defender of democracy

  17. #17
    I don't really see an issue with raid loot right now. That said the nerf to mythic + loot still feels pretty bad.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    Maybe instead when you enter a raid there's a vendor where you just buy whatever gear you want for free then
    No. Balance is needed. That's why I said at least 3 kills (for 1 item); it proves you know what you're doing; even 1 kill should not give a guaranteed item because most guilds are reckless on the 1st kill.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    Remember back in the good old day when you didnt need to have bis in every slot
    Two fallacies here. No I don't remember back in the day people not liking loot; in fact: back in the day people may had been worse; they were younger and the trolling was way harsher (e.g. "remember" the ninja looters of wotlk's pugs?).

    And "bis" is a fallacy; it's extremely rare to have an item being 'true bis' for a slot because the math (and sims) prove the 'bis' fluctuates depended on current gear and especially current encounter; limited exception: last 2-3 bosses.
    "If you have questions or suggestions about moderation, you go to a global (blue) moderator with them and discuss the matter in PMs. These kinds of discussions NEVER work out in public." xskarma, global moderator off mmo-champion, defender of democracy

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    In at least the 4th week you can pick only 1 item from the entire raid (or 1 item from all 5mans). I don't see how that "would gear everyone and their mothers to bis fast" (PS there is no bis; that's a fallacy of people who don't get simulations and how the game works).
    Cool, so it's the worse option: You get 7 out of 10 points waste every week that you can never use (plus some more from the first weeks). Great system.

    Here's 10 week rundown of your point system:

    Week 1 - 10 points, no items, enjoy
    Week 2 - 20 points, no items, enjoy
    Week 3 - 30 points, no items, enjoy
    Week 4 - 40 minus 3 for an item; 37 points
    Week 5 - 47 minus 3 for an item; 44 points
    Week 6 - 54 minus 3 for an item; 51 points
    Week 7 - 61 minus 3 for an item; 58 points
    Week 8 - 68 minus 3 for an item; 65 points
    Week 9 - 75 minus 3 for an item; 72 points
    Week 10 - 82 minus 3 for an item; 79 points.
    Last edited by Azadina; 2022-01-13 at 02:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  20. #20
    Wow is designed to be mastered by groups of real-life friends. If you dont have that, you become a whale and get carried to BiS, then turn around and join a discord server that sells carries to recoup your gearing costs and turn a profit. The maniacal systems exist as a impenetrable barrier for those who actually want to play wow in a legit fashion.

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