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  1. #61
    Titan Orby's Avatar
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    A very depressing question for me. And a hard one to answer

    As someone who hasn't played WoW for just over a year now and has been unsubbed for that long also, Its a very hard question, one you cannot fix with 'just make a good game'. There are so many intricacies and layers. Blizzard could release the best expansion after Shadowlands and I dont think thats going to bring me back. I think its just time.

    I feel its something that's just not going to happen. I just don't have FUN in WoW anymore. I find everything in the game work, a chore. since I quit WoW I been playing games and having fun, something blizzard haven't provided for along time. The only things I get from WoW is anxiety, frustration, stress and obligation. I feel like I was playing because I been leeched onto the company since 1993 I felt I had to.

    Sad times seeing as someone who used to play every blizzard game (except HotS, I suck at MOBAS), now doesn't play a single one. And thats not me boycotting the compony for whatever reason, oh no. Over time I slowly just stopped enjoying Blizzard games... It wasnt even intended or anything, it just happened. And I haven't went back to a single one, I just moved on. Very sad actually

    I'll always have the memories though. what a ride.
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-01-14 at 12:36 AM.
    Proof is boring. Proof is tiresome. Proof is irrelevance. People would rather be handed an easy lie than search for a difficult truth, especially when it suits their own purpose.
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    The Last Argument of Kings, The First Law Trilogy.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Sub 150K will never happen.

    Currently, it's around 300K and that's way too low. Should be 400+, preferably 500K
    WoW tokens are currently in the 190-200k range and typically dip around the start of a new expansion with overachievers looking to get an early boost in things like crafting (dipped to around 115k in Nov 2020), so there’s a chance when the next expansion comes out that it’ll go low enough again.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2022-01-14 at 04:34 AM.

  3. #63
    - Account wide progression
    - Fix professions
    - Bring back old content (garrison, farm, etc). Keep updating it, even if it's minor.
    - Actually add new BG's
    - Update current BG's with different art assets, weather, time of day, etc, to keep it feeling like there is some variety.
    - A pvp medal system would be cool
    - Scale older content and add a new badge currency for it. Allow that to be used to buy a ton of stuff
    - Actually update the UI and allow customization. It's been 17 years. Its ridiculous. Addons are a hassle.

  4. #64
    Wonder if we have reached the acceptance stage with a lot of people finally admitted there's nothing the devs could do.
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  5. #65
    Reverting to the cata-style PvP gearing system. Giving DPS specs more complexity and nuance.

    Things I have been waiting for since 7.0 released.

  6. #66
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    WoW tokens are currently in the 190-200k range
    289.401 as of 06:49 today.

    Source: https://wowtokenprices.com/
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > ShaLa > MoP > BfA > WoD = WotLK

    My pet collection --> http://www.warcraftpets.com/collection/FuxieDK/

  7. #67
    Legendary! MonsieuRoberts's Avatar
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    Sensible storytelling and far fewer endless time-wasting chores.
    ⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥ "In short, people are idiots who don't really understand anything." ⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥

    ⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥ ⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥⛥

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanaku View Post
    I'm sure this has been asked before but I didn't see any recent posts about this in my, admittedly, brief search of the forums.
    For those who are no longer playing the game, what would bring you back to the game? What would you like to see in perhaps a new expansion?

    For me I would like them to focus on making the classes fun again and do away with the convoluted temporary power systems. I feel like those systems only serve as a weird grind that makes it less desirable to play alts or even other specs.

    So I think it would be cool to get 4th specs for the non hero classes and just work on class/spec identities and make them fun to play. Take a look at some balancing. Why have Disc priests and Holy Paladins been so dominant for M+ for so many expansions now? (because they provide both the most dps AND the damage reduction Healing CDs) just as an example. I think 4th specs would also allow for other classes to do roles they normally wouldn't be able to do.
    I know a lot of people are against the 4th spec thing but I think it would be cool.

    Secondly, just focus on a system that is fun primarily and design it with the intent that it could stick around as a permanent feature in the game. Torghast had so much potential as an alternate way to play the game. Just turn the powers up to 11, offer more build paths (it really needed like 3 times the amount of powers just to start). I could go on an entire rant about this but I will leave it at that
    TBH - less people like you people in this thread(nothing personal).

    It feel like outside Blizz is trying to figure out the game(and it seems like it's going the right direction - at least with the communication) - they also have a highly pessimistic group of players, they need to satisfy.

    Just look at the demands in here - I just wish people would shut and quit it - instead of hanging around.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2022-01-14 at 06:26 AM.

  9. #69
    I am not quite gone, but I would play the game a hell of a lot more if you were actually rewarded for your time spent playing the game, rather than merely increasing your chances for potential rewards the more you play.

    For example, Badge Gear/Upgrade system. You didn't get loot from a boss? You get badges. Which can be used to buy current tier pieces for every slot. They might not be the most optimal stats, but you get to choose a guaranteed reward, rather than having to down X number of bosses and complete Y number of Mythics, to get a choice of random pieces, which may all be complete garbage.

    And then badges can also be used to upgrade your gear up to a certain threshold. I'd be personally fine if that threshold was the highest item level available in the current patch. The built in reward for doing the hardest content in the game is that you have access to the most powerful gear without having to incrementally upgrade your full set over the course of a tier, but still gives players a reward to work towards if you're not able to clear the hardest content.

    I mostly just want the game to respect my time.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroticaine View Post
    I am not quite gone, but I would play the game a hell of a lot more if you were actually rewarded for your time spent playing the game, rather than merely increasing your chances for potential rewards the more you play.

    For example, Badge Gear/Upgrade system. You didn't get loot from a boss? You get badges. Which can be used to buy current tier pieces for every slot. They might not be the most optimal stats, but you get to choose a guaranteed reward, rather than having to down X number of bosses and complete Y number of Mythics, to get a choice of random pieces, which may all be complete garbage.

    And then badges can also be used to upgrade your gear up to a certain threshold. I'd be personally fine if that threshold was the highest item level available in the current patch. The built in reward for doing the hardest content in the game is that you have access to the most powerful gear without having to incrementally upgrade your full set over the course of a tier, but still gives players a reward to work towards if you're not able to clear the hardest content.

    I mostly just want the game to respect my time.
    You know - i'm not some smart guy.

    But what is the purpose of the game, if everybody would walk around in full gear after 4 weeks in next patch?

    Why is it so hard for people to make sense of the game?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    Decent character advancement that doesn't depend on M+, raiding, or PvP. All players like some character advancement, but right now, Blizzard is too busy listening to the raiders, the M+ no-lifers, and PvPers telling them that only they 'deserve' to advance their characters. If you're not one of those three, you get more or less nothing once you quest through the story.

    What's worse, the raiders really only want control of the advancement so they can *sell* gear to the masses for gold.

    Blizzard can do w/o my money till they get their heads out of their asses.
    I suggest you play something like card games or racing game? Maybe Fifa?

    You seem to misunderstand the core concept of classic MMO.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanaku View Post
    I'm sure this has been asked before but I didn't see any recent posts about this in my, admittedly, brief search of the forums.
    For those who are no longer playing the game, what would bring you back to the game? What would you like to see in perhaps a new expansion?

    For me I would like them to focus on making the classes fun again and do away with the convoluted temporary power systems. I feel like those systems only serve as a weird grind that makes it less desirable to play alts or even other specs.

    So I think it would be cool to get 4th specs for the non hero classes and just work on class/spec identities and make them fun to play. Take a look at some balancing. Why have Disc priests and Holy Paladins been so dominant for M+ for so many expansions now? (because they provide both the most dps AND the damage reduction Healing CDs) just as an example. I think 4th specs would also allow for other classes to do roles they normally wouldn't be able to do.
    I know a lot of people are against the 4th spec thing but I think it would be cool.

    Secondly, just focus on a system that is fun primarily and design it with the intent that it could stick around as a permanent feature in the game. Torghast had so much potential as an alternate way to play the game. Just turn the powers up to 11, offer more build paths (it really needed like 3 times the amount of powers just to start). I could go on an entire rant about this but I will leave it at that
    It's pointless to ask, if Blizzard aren't going to change anything anyway.

    For me it's:
    1) Outdoor difficulty setting. I've got sick of compromises and broken scaling. I want ultimate solution. Same, as LFR for raiding. Let other players play their mob swamp and rat mazes, if they want. But if I want flying on day one - I should have it.
    2) Choice to opt out from CRZ or get rid of overcrowded realms some other way. Not everybody likes exceeding competition and playing World of Queuecraft.
    3) Account-wide progression. I've got sick of mandatory long term grinds, making game alt-unfriendly. All that falling behind and half-arsed catch-ups. Just solve this problem already.

  12. #72
    - Warforging and titanforging but capped reasonably. Offers more excitement from running content from which you stand to gain no gear upgrades.

    - More challenges like the mage tower that are not timewalking gated. Offers the perfect way to challenge individual players who can't find a group of people to consistently run mythic plus or raid.

    - Legion legendaries were fun. The only problem was was the initial bad luck protection wasn't as good as it was later in the expansion.

    - Enough with the borrowed power grind. It doesn't make playing alts fun anymore.

    - Bring back Blizzard listening to the player base basically
    Last edited by Teca; 2022-01-14 at 07:05 AM.

  13. #73
    My wish list is very short, but that doesnt make it easy to do:

    - Fun classes - FUN - not perfectly balanced, im fine with certain specs being below average in aoe, or arena, or single target - just make them fun.
    - Simplify gearing back to how it was during cata / mop, even if that means a raid difficulty is removed, or M+ gearing is totally changed
    - ...
    - I play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    There might be some tiny design spaces left that a new class could utilize, But I think overall, we might have truly reached a saturation point with the classes.
    - and just like that, the Tinker was gone.
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    i have several gay friends at work, and i know at least 6 other gay people

  14. #74
    No more daily/weekly "chores". Best part of the older expansions was being able to log in and do whatever you felt like, not having to worry about doing shit content like Choregast or other worthless daily content to keep up.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    You know - i'm not some smart guy.

    But what is the purpose of the game, if everybody would walk around in full gear after 4 weeks in next patch?

    Why is it so hard for people to make sense of the game?

    - - - Updated - - -



    I suggest you play something like card games or racing game? Maybe Fifa?

    You seem to misunderstand the core concept of classic MMO.
    This is so typical of anti-wow sentiment. Players who want contradictory things.

    It does make me wonder whether criticism of wow's actual gameplay is just a combination of people who have been playing too long and social media hate merchants.
    Their isn't a consensus on the best direction for wow to go in gameplay-wise which makes me think maybe it doesn't exist.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by varren View Post
    No more daily/weekly "chores". Best part of the older expansions was being able to log in and do whatever you felt like, not having to worry about doing shit content like Choregast or other worthless daily content to keep up.
    You say this like wow wasn't always grindy stuff. Earlier expansions had daily quests. They were much duller than the current world quests. Ask a veteran how much they enjoyed mop-era dailies.

  16. #76
    I want to come back to wow but lately I feel like Final Fantasy XIV has spoiled me rotten and I see how things could be so much better. In terms of Story, Progression etc. I was reading Wowhead just in case Blizzard changed their ways and decided to release non timegated meaningful content and like an Orphan expecting his parents to come home that Christmas, I was ultimately disappointed.

    Like I see so many ways blizzard could keep the same content but make it more.. FUN and engaging, and not have to rely on awful timesinks and timegates and keep the content Relevent and doable in the future. I see solutions to problems people have that is so easy to do.

    1. Zerith Mortis : Make flying just a questchain that's not locked behind a progression system or Reputation. Make it so the zone has lots of Mounts, Pets, etc to work towards and progressing the rep and the Cypher makes earning those rewards easier and faster. Make it so that people who WANT to engage with the content will, and not make it tied to player power. I mean the Gold Saucer has NO player power, and its one of the most popular areas in FFXIV.

    2. Double Legendaries : come the fuck on. Tieing this to a Revered rep? My solution would be to make this unlocked when you Kill Zoval on any difficulty. That way if no gear dropped for you on that fight, you still feel rewarded and gained some player power.

    3. STOP INVALIDATING CONTENT PATCH TO PATCH : Seriously, I remember grinding that Archivist Codex on two characters (BEFORE the .5 patch made it easier) and Grinding 4 domination shard sets to max level to only hear its being outright DISABLED next patch. I would have preferred that the Set bonus didnt work, but the gems did, and the tier sets and stat increases were so good that they made me WANT to replace the shards. Or fucking hell, let us still use the Base Shards on the gear in Zerith Mortis and the raid. Would a bit more % of damage REALLY be that big of a deal?

    4. When classes are outperforming others, STOP NERFING THEM : Reaper in Final Fantasy was out performing ALL jobs in terms of DPS and what was the devs solution? they're planning on buffing everyone else up to or close to reaper based on their skillsets. No one likes being nerfed, it feels awful when you're doing big numbers only to feel like you're being punished for doing well. I understand some things for PVP sake but we have separate systems for that now.

    5. Stop Timegating EVERYTHING : This sends the message your content can't stand on its own and retain players...and for the most of Shadowlands...that has been the case. Timegating every little bit of content just frustrates and infuriates players to the point they just say fuck it. How much Timegating did FF have? After launch it was 2 weeks for Normal Mode Raids, and 2 more weeks for Savage mode, and nothing else. Story and Side content was available from the start, progression was available, nothing was held back. That was the only timegating. Flying was available Day 1 - Dungeons to earn Tomestones were available Day 1 - The Final Boss was available Day 1 - The new Jobs were available Day 1. Now Im looking at 9.2 - Zoval is not available right away - Flying is tied to Cypher which will take 24 - 30 days to unlock - Keystone Master is going to be even more of a pain to earn despite Valor Points being capped - Double Legendaries are tied to a Revered Reputation. Like Do people REALLY enjoy this?

    6. PLAN OUT YOUR FUCKING STORY FOR GODS SAKE! : Thanos... sorry Zoval subjugating Sylvanas since wrath...wait sorry, SHE NEVER SERVES, getting the infinity stones... DARN IM SORRY Sigils, and going to place them in the Gauntlet GOD DAMNIT I KEEP MIXING THEM UP Seplecur and snapping his fingers to remake the universe. Cmon tell me does anyone NOT see the giant "LETS PUT INFINITY WAR IN WOW" story going on? Its so stupid. I mean Final Fantasy's story was planned since Realm Reborn and only NOW just completed. I feel like when Metzen left the story went off the rails cause Steve Denuser is an AWFUL story writer. Also I shouldn't be told that Chronicle is the definitive WoW lore book only to have Grimorie of Shadowlands completely say its invalid. Its deceptive business practices.

    After all of this... I decided its not that I hate the game now... its the game that hates me. I miss doing Mythic+ with my guildies. I miss Raiding in WoW alongside Final Fantasy, but at this point... I feel like Endwalker Ruined me. I see that it doesn't have to be an eternal grind from patch to patch only to have EVERYTHING invalidated in the next patch. I seen now that content can be done not for player power...but just for fun. Wow has become a game that wastes my time, rather than a game that makes me WANT to waste my time. I sold my used collectors editions, chronicle books, novels etc (got 1500 for everything) and will probably never come back.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    You know - i'm not some smart guy.

    But what is the purpose of the game, if everybody would walk around in full gear after 4 weeks in next patch?

    Why is it so hard for people to make sense of the game?
    You should be able to gear up in the duration of a current patch. Right now, you might be able to gear up in the duration of the patch if you are lucky enough. That's not fun. Gear shouldn't be 100% random. Nor should it be 100% deterministic. It's a balance that World of Warcraft use to have. Now it doesn't. As for what to do after being fully geared in 4 weeks? (if they were to make it only take 4 weeks) I don't know, maybe they should design some fucking content for it. Why is everything tied to player power? why is everything time gated and slowed to a crawl? They made Mage Tower and then ditched it, noticed people actually really really liked and wanted it back. So now it's back... Behind a timewalking gate that only shows up once in a while.

    If you think gearing up to fast is an issue, maybe you should question why the gearing up prosses is all the game offers.


    As for what would get me to play the game, remove barrowed power. The player power progress should be your level and gear. They have proven unable to balance it well, made it time gated and grindy. It's not fun, Legion Legendary, Azerite, and the covenant system all shared the exact same issue.

    Stop making all content be tied to player power, Island Expeditions, Warfronts, Torgast, and just about every other piece of content outside of Raids, Dungeons, and PVP all advance your player power in some way shape or form. That makes them feel required to do in order to keep up. And in most cases, they are required to do to keep up. That ruins any level of fun they offer. Let content like that stand on it's own. People will enjoy it without the endless grind of power attached.

    Fix the Story telling. It should ALL be in the game and it should ALL be presented in a meaningful way. (sorry but the paragraph text box doesn't do it anymore). But, with how fucked that is right now. I doubt it's fixable without a fresh start.

    Also, on a minor note, give me 2 hand Enhancement Shaman back and let Dark Spear Trolls have Beards.. Vol'jin had a beard, i want one to. I have more but, at the end of the day, none of it will happen because the dev's in there stubbornness, refuse to admit the games in a horrible place. Even when they release statement saying it, they don't really believe it. If they did, we wouldn't see the exact same failings every patch.
    Last edited by DragonsBeard; 2022-01-14 at 07:27 AM.

  18. #78
    What I would like to have in wow:

    - Bigger, longer and more storyline(s). Make them more complex and interesting and much more engaging and storydriven. Make us having to do it once on any character and on the others we can choose to do it again or skip it and use feature as tread of fait.

    So in SL we would have to do 50-60 leveling, story, korthia and the 9.2 story zones once and everything tied to it would be account wide.

    If everything we do on 1 character is unlocked for every alt you have, it would be much more pleasant to play alts.


    The only thing I want to do with my alts are level them up, gear them and just play. Im fucking sick and tierd of repeating grinds over and over again for the sake of it. Doing grinds once is ok as I dont mind it, but its a killer if I gotta do it on every character.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by trandwidther View Post
    You say this like wow wasn't always grindy stuff. Earlier expansions had daily quests. They were much duller than the current world quests. Ask a veteran how much they enjoyed mop-era dailies.
    As a Veteran of the game. I would much rather that "dull" dailies than the endless, mindless, grindy World Quests.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by varren View Post
    No more daily/weekly "chores". Best part of the older expansions was being able to log in and do whatever you felt like, not having to worry about doing shit content like Choregast or other worthless daily content to keep up.


    So you just want to stand in your garrison and bitch about how the game has nothing to do, gotcha. This expansion has literally not had any "daily chores" you had to do. Maw, Korthia, emissarys. All 100% skippable with little to no effect on player power. So your basically complaining because you had to spend 30 minutes in torghast for a few weeks until you crafted your legendary. Why even bother playing the game if your going to get pissy about being "forced" to play something for such a trivial amount of time? If that is truly upsetting to you, just quit the game already. Your clearly just looking for a reason to be mad and coming up with any excuse you can think of.





    As for OP, I would like to add more gear customization back. Shoulder, leg, gloves, amulet, enchants/kits. Blacksmithing belt socket. Meta gems. Items to have pre determined sockets like they used to. 3 red sockets in that awesome 2hander from the raid. Item reforge back, no more hit and expertise caps to worry about.

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