Should WoW adopt a tougher stance on Toxicity in-game?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I just find it hilarious that you think advertising is over the line but calling a 12 year old the n word isn't worth banning someone for.

You aren't arguing in good faith here, but thats for the course. No one is actually saying saying calling children slurs is fine. But WoW already has multiple ways to deal with that. Most/all the scenarios you keep bringing up are the ultra extreme and I would say no common at all. You can already report people and ignore them for saying slurs. If enough people report they will be silenced and eventually banned\suspended. Playing since early 05, and the amount of times I have seen someone say the n word is very low. Some of the other examples you are mentioning are straight illegal in most? countries, and should be met with the law. Its definitely a fallacy for your reply to "I don't trust one persons example of basic toxicity" to then be "Oh so you're fine with sexual harassment, online stalking, and saying racial slurs to children?"

Mainly because those things are already against the ToS and result in bans, and no one here that I have seen is advocating for that threshold to lessen. In my opinion, routinely arguing in bad faith is toxic, while others in this thread have literally said would consider mentioning player performance at all is toxic, and that you should instead leave the group if you are upset that someone is playing badly instead of commenting on it, at all. "What is toxicity" isn't something that can really be answered easily. But like, 12 year olds can also use the profanity filter and not even be aware of what words were used.

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Honestly, yes. I am a big fan of the things FF did on that front.
You get the community you foster. If WoW does not foster their community, it's gonna be toxic. It's that simple. If people can be given the choice to be nice or to be trash, they will choose to be trash cause there is no repercussion. If there is no repercussion, there is no transgression.

Besides stifling so much freedom, my other problem with this point is how truly fake it is. We can all applaud FF for its rules, but most/many of those player sonly listen because they have to, as you basically said. I don't think at all its a culture issue. FF fans on this very forum are often nasty, and places like Reddit and Twitter are pretty awful too. You can see just as much "toxicity" on those subs.

[Caerrona]

If I get in a group with some shitter player, I let them know they are garbage and leave the group.

Don't join groups if you are bad. Period. I'm not going to give in to some whining snowflake because they are getting out dpsed by the healer. They are trash.

If you are experiencing "big meanie toxic players" it is 100% because you are a bad player.

[Tiev]

If I get in a group with some shitter player, I let them know they are garbage and leave the group.

Don't join groups if you are bad. Period. I'm not going to give in to some whining snowflake because they are getting out dpsed by the healer. They are trash.

If you are experiencing "big meanie toxic players" it is 100% because you are a bad player.

My god, I sincerely hope you're young and your parents haven't taught you better. Because if you're not, ugh.

[kaminaris]

Besides stifling so much freedom, my other problem with this point is how truly fake it is. We can all applaud FF for its rules, but most/many of those player sonly listen because they have to, as you basically said. I don't think at all its a culture issue. FF fans on this very forum are often nasty, and places like Reddit and Twitter are pretty awful too. You can see just as much "toxicity" on those subs.

It just isn't fake. People are genuinely polite and helpful there, i was pretty damned amazed when i talked with randoms and they wanted to have small talk.

You don't get that but the majority of people are just normal. Its the other part that turns the env into toxic cesspool.

[Devilyaki]

Yes they should and if you say no toxicity is fine you are part of the problem

[T-34]

My god, I sincerely hope you're young and your parents haven't taught you better. Because if you're not, ugh.

Maybe parents should teach their children that you should always do your best and respect the time and efforts of other people instead of teaching them that the rest of the world is obliged to carry them.
IRL people that wilfully are bad have bad jobs, if they even have one, people don't want to be friends with them and they can only get married to fat alcoholics.

[TheRevenantHero]

If I get in a group with some shitter player, I let them know they are garbage and leave the group.

Don't join groups if you are bad. Period. I'm not going to give in to some whining snowflake because they are getting out dpsed by the healer. They are trash.

If you are experiencing "big meanie toxic players" it is 100% because you are a bad player.

You can easily just....not be a jerk to people in groups. I'd say I hope you get banned for your toxicity but Blizzard has proven they don't punish people like you.

[Echo of Soul]

You aren't arguing in good faith here, but thats for the course. No one is actually saying saying calling children slurs is fine. But WoW already has multiple ways to deal with that. Most/all the scenarios you keep bringing up are the ultra extreme and I would say no common at all. You can already report people and ignore them for saying slurs. If enough people report they will be silenced and eventually banned\suspended.

So if a sick asshole goes to a school and start screaming racial slurs at the children the solution is to ignore him?? And one report isn't enough to warrant an investigation you need multiple and maybe something will happen?? I'm glad you're not in charge of society.

We can all applaud FF for its rules, but most/many of those player sonly listen because they have to, as you basically said. I don't think at all its a culture issue.

I don't care why people behave as long as they behave. If I don't get robbed and beaten on my way to the grocery store I don't care if it's because rules prevent people from doing so, I only care that they don't do it.

[TheRevenantHero]

Maybe parents should teach their children that you should always do your best and respect the time and efforts of other people instead of teaching them that the rest of the world is obliged to carry them.
IRL people that wilfully are bad have bad jobs, if they even have one, people don't want to be friends with them and they can only get married to fat alcoholics.

Or maybe, just maybe, you don't be toxic to other players because it's just a fucking game. If you don't like the group, then leave. Throwing around insults is just childish and toxic.

[T-34]

Or maybe, just maybe, you don't be toxic to other players because it's just a fucking game. If you don't like the group, then leave. Throwing around insults is just childish and toxic.

It is funny how some people like to put words in to people's mouth here.
I did not in any way write anything about "insults".
First of all it is against the ToS to used banned language.
Secondly it is rude.
Thirdly it is a waste of time, especially when talking to the wilfully unwilling to respect the time and efforts of others.
To tell someone that they are bad at the game isn't an insult.

Furthermore it is 100% within Blizzard's rule set to kick players that make the in-game experience toxic for the majority of a group.
There is nothing more toxic and disrespectful than wasting the time of other people.

Nowhere in Blizzard's policy does it state that toxic players have the right to waste the time and be carried by respectful players.

[shise]

The problem I see is that Blizzard can not fix it.

This is a personal problem, coming from the private life of the players. Poor parenting, poor manners, that type of thing.

In 16 years playing WoW I have never even considered yelling or swearing at other players. Even when they fail 10 times in a row, you can get a bit mad and show it somehow, sure, but that doesn´t mean directly flaming them, calling them names or shit like that.

I do believe that people should take a stance against it. When we see someone being toxic, we should collectively tell them. If they don´t like it, kick them from the group, ignore them in the chat and simply don´t play with them. That´s all you can really do and probably the most effective thing to do as well.

[VinceVega]

People became so whiney in recent years....

sure if someone runs around using swearwords like n-word, f-word, b-word.... etc. pp. they should get a bad and it can be easily recongnized.

But if you join a group where everyone expects you to KNOW what the fuck you are doing but you don't and the other four don't want to play with you because of that it is not toxic. You are. You force a situation where others completly loose their time without gaining anything at all. If i tell you that you are bad because you wiped the group 5 times in a row... that is not toxic.

People complaining abotu toxicity ingame are nearly always people who are to lazy to acutally learn anything about the game waste other peoples time and act suprised if the other are angry for wasting said time.

[Echo of Soul]

The problem I see is that Blizzard can not fix it.

This is a personal problem, coming from the private life of the players. Poor parenting, poor manners, that type of thing.

In 16 years playing WoW I have never even considered yelling or swearing at other players. Even when they fail 10 times in a row, you can get a bit mad and show it somehow, sure, but that doesn´t mean directly flaming them, calling them names or shit like that.

I do believe that people should take a stance against it. When we see someone being toxic, we should collectively tell them. If they don´t like it, kick them from the group, ignore them in the chat and simply don´t play with them. That´s all you can really do and probably the most effective thing to do as well.

I do think that developers of online games should do a little bit of parenting. Kids interact with others in completely different ways than they did 20-30 years ago and they interact with them more often.
The developers should stomp down on tantrums the same way as a parent would. Kids throwing tantrums unpunished will lead to them becoming adults throwing tantrums and that's when the become toxic.
Just because someone is not as good as you doesn't give you the right to verbally assault them. A grown up at least try to help them improve so that they can get through the content and if they don't want to you just politely excuse yourself and leave the group, there's no nerd to fly off the handle, it's a video game.

[TheRevenantHero]

It is funny how some people like to put words in to people's mouth here.
I did not in any way write anything about "insults".
First of all it is against the ToS to used banned language.
Secondly it is rude.
Thirdly it is a waste of time, especially when talking to the wilfully unwilling to respect the time and efforts of others.
To tell someone that they are bad at the game isn't an insult.

Furthermore it is 100% within Blizzard's rule set to kick players that make the in-game experience toxic for the majority of a group.
There is nothing more toxic and disrespectful than wasting the time of other people.

Nowhere in Blizzard's policy does it state that toxic players have the right to waste the time and be carried by respectful players.

You compared people in game to people doing poorly at jobs. It's a tremendous false equivalence. It's a fucking game. If you think someone isn't respecting your time then just don't play with them. It's really that simple.

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People became so whiney in recent years....

sure if someone runs around using swearwords like n-word, f-word, b-word.... etc. pp. they should get a bad and it can be easily recongnized.

But if you join a group where everyone expects you to KNOW what the fuck you are doing but you don't and the other four don't want to play with you because of that it is not toxic. You are. You force a situation where others completly loose their time without gaining anything at all. If i tell you that you are bad because you wiped the group 5 times in a row... that is not toxic.

People complaining abotu toxicity ingame are nearly always people who are to lazy to acutally learn anything about the game waste other peoples time and act suprised if the other are angry for wasting said time.

Kicking someone from the group after they wiped the ground several times isn't toxic. Hurling insults at them and THEN kicking them IS toxic.

[MoanaLisa]

But if you join a group where everyone expects you to KNOW what the fuck you are doing but you don't and the other four don't want to play with you because of that it is not toxic. You are. You force a situation where others completly loose their time without gaining anything at all. If i tell you that you are bad because you wiped the group 5 times in a row... that is not toxic.

No, it's not unless it's accompanied by a slew of insults and hostility. Then it is.

[Caerrona]

No, it's not unless it's accompanied by a slew of insults and hostility. Then it is.

Now I'm not talking about failng once here (ie just fucking up and walking into a pack, or missing an interrupt)

But... if a player queues up for a group and single handely bricks the key ie. Trash dps, no interrupts at all, failing mechanics... they absolutely deserve to be told they are shit. End of story. Don't queue up for groups if you can't handle the content, it doesn't matter the reason why.

The blame is on the person wasting x peoples time. Not the person telling them they are trash. Because they are trash.

[potis]

You compared people in game to people doing poorly at jobs. It's a tremendous false equivalence. It's a fucking game. If you think someone isn't respecting your time then just don't play with them. It's really that simple.

Lol, and then you guys yell "toxic", you literally explained what is supposed to happen, but 99% of you consider this as "toxic", because "its a fucking game", therefor i must accept your uselessness as something normal, despite you literally saying i should not play with you.

Decide guys.

And because there are tools to predetermine you are not gonna respect my time, therefor i should not play with you, thats toxic, again.

So what is it?

[VinceVega]

No, it's not unless it's accompanied by a slew of insults and hostility. Then it is.

Like is said. Insults are a different thing... and you can report allready. And the system is actually quite strict when you got actually insulted.

If someone tells you to learn the game because you cannot play... that is not insulting. If someone says "Fuck you go die in a dtich you noob". You can report that with one click. Just beacuse blizz doesn't issue permabans for everythign doesn't mean they are doing nothing.

And people start to think that "noob" is on the same level as... well the n-word i am not going to use here. Or people not taking you into a 15+ because you have nothing to show is also toxic because "content should be open for everyone, stupid elitist with their stupid toxic gatekeeping" and so on.

I rather get insulted here and there by people i never meet and never will think about again... because it is just text in a box on a PC without a face or anything, than live in a orvellian paradise like FF14 where everybody is nice just becuase the banning system is so strict.

[TheRevenantHero]

Lol, and then you guys yell "toxic", you literally explained what is supposed to happen, but 99% of you consider this as "toxic", because "its a fucking game", therefor i must accept your uselessness as something normal, despite you literally saying i should not play with you.

Decide guys.

And because there are tools to predetermine you are not gonna respect my time, therefor i should not play with you, thats toxic, again.

So what is it?

Again, if you have an issue with someone then leave the group. Slinging insults is harassment and goes against the ToS.

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Now I'm not talking about failng once here (ie just fucking up and walking into a pack, or missing an interrupt)

But... if a player queues up for a group and single handely bricks the key ie. Trash dps, no interrupts at all, failing mechanics... they absolutely deserve to be told they are shit. End of story. Don't queue up for groups if you can't handle the content, it doesn't matter the reason why.

The blame is on the person wasting x peoples time. Not the person telling them they are trash. Because they are trash.

Ok and slinging insults will hopefully result in getting you banned because it's considered harassment.

[T-34]

You compared people in game to people doing poorly at jobs. It's a tremendous false equivalence. It's a fucking game. If you think someone isn't respecting your time then just don't play with them. It's really that simple.

Exactly!
In player created groups I use the various tools at my disposal to minimize the risk that I play with toxic, entitled people.
In automated groups I initiate a kick when a toxic, wilfully unwilling person makes the in-game experience of the rest of the group toxic and in almost all cases such a kick passes.