Should WoW adopt a tougher stance on Toxicity in-game?

[Niwes]

wow/blizz should take AAAAAAA LOOOOOOOOOOOT more responsibility, than just a stupid toxcity control team. starting with a game design that not supports and actively provide many negative effects like toxcity and others.

[Triceron]

WoW is not a competitive game for the vast majority of players. However, it is a game that convinces a significant number of players to delude themselves into thinking they are being competitive when they aren't. That is what makes the design uniquely bad. If you aren't doing world firsts or rated pvp, it is not a competitive game, period.

Then the same FF14 answer above applies.

That you don't like the toxicity in the game because people aren't playing competitively? Then the game isn't for you.

Honestly, if you aren't partaking in any of the competitive progression systems (which includes LFR and regular dungeons, these are just on the lower end of the spectrum) then really, who is being toxic to the Herb Farmers and Achievement collectors?

Toxicity is happening in any competitive progression system at any given level. We're not just talking Mythic Plus or Raids here. We're talking about those same expectations trickling down to LFR and under.


It has nothing to do with wanting to be competitive or not. It has to do with these systems being built around competitive progression; meaning there is a direct relationship between the content you do and how people expect them to be done at the most effective (competitive) standard. If there was no expectation, then there's no toxicity; like we see in other games like FF14 and Guild Wars 2 which aren't built around competitive progression systems. They have progression systems that offer all types of alternatives or parallel content that don't require group content to do; thus there is no expectation that any of it is a 'necessity' that has to be accomplished through any given standard.

[Popastique]

Toxicity control team ... are you serious? You have blacklist at your disposal, someone insulting you - one click of a button and bam, they can't talk to you anymore. Not feeling good enough? Write a ticket and hope someone reads it ( for whatever reason )

[NineSpine]

No, move on with the woke bs, literally the one last thing that will ever actually kill wow

There's nothing funnier than people who see a terrifying woke bogeyman around every corner and think that they are the true alphas.

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Toxicity control team ... are you serious? You have blacklist at your disposal, someone insulting you - one click of a button and bam, they can't talk to you anymore. Not feeling good enough? Write a ticket and hope someone reads it ( for whatever reason )

Yeah that works, if I can just block the 100,000 toxic people in wow I am good to go.

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Then the same FF14 answer above applies.

That you don't like the toxicity in the game because people aren't playing competitively? Then the game isn't for you.

If you aren't doing world firsts or rated pvp. It isn't a competitive game. This is equivalent to someone sitting by themselves in the back of a mcdonalds playing solitaire and insisting they are doing a competitive activity. There is no competition. You are just a weirdo with a remarkably detached from reality sense of self-importance. You aren't in the fucking NFL. You are just playing a video game like a regular person. Nobody cares about you or knows who you are. There is no "competition". The only thing you are competing with are your delusions.

Defeating an internet dragon on your cow-lady character as the world 500,000th person to do so is not "competitive".

[Magnagarde]

Definitely not. It is easier for me to stay away from "toxicity" than having someone subjectively mandate what is toxic and what isn't. There are a lot of people who believe that merely having a different opinion is toxic.

[Triceron]

If you aren't doing world firsts or rated pvp. It isn't a competitive game.

Just because T-ball isn't the world series doesn't mean it's not a competitive game.

Even kids sports are competitive. You're equating two different things here. That you choose not to be competitive when playing T-ball and just want to for the sake of fun doesn't mean the game itself is not competitive.

[Eli85]

Would I?
Or maybe you were talked about behind your back then?
Take a guess.

Good intentions do not give you the right to silence me, mate.
Especially when what you do directly affects me in some way. You're gonna get called out.
I am from eastern europe, I can assure you, you're gonna get called out and called out hard.

It is all about being weak, unable to handle raw conflict because you were sheltered.

And online it is entirely avoidable also, you can ignore and leave. You can't do that irl.
So where is the problem here?

Oh boy, this is an interesting comment.

First, I'm not trying to silence you. I disagree with you. I told you why I disagree with you. Unless anything but blind agreement to your position is "silencing?"

Second, if being hostile to co-workers, friends, acquaintances, or whoever else, is the norm in eastern europe, then I'm very happy I live in Canada. In Canada, if you're berating people in public, you get very funny looks, and people jump in and demand what your problem is. It's just completely unacceptable behaviour here.

Thirdly, I'm the furthest thing from sheltered. I've experienced a lot of raw conflict before. I can handle it. I just ... don't want needless hostility in my life, and certainly not in my leisure time. It's not good for your mental health, nor for your physical health. Blood pressure rising from stressful situations is a thing.

Fourth, not everybody can easily leave, due to age, maturity, or a host of other reasons. When a stranger unloads on you in a group setting, it paralyzes some people. It's not because they're weak either. Everyone is different. Not everyone can take a stranger yelling at them, whether by text or voice communications. That also is called cyber bulling, and that's something you can be prosecuted here for. Why? We understand the harm that such behaviours have on mental health.

Lastly, if you're just going to come back with "bro you're weak and sheltered; grow a spine," then this will be my last comment to you; as it would become apparent that you just don't grasp the complexities of toxic, hostile behaviour on human beings.

[Begrudge]

There's nothing funnier than people who see a terrifying woke bogeyman around every corner and think that they are the true alphas.

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Yeah that works, if I can just block the 100,000 toxic people in wow I am good to go.

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If you aren't doing world firsts or rated pvp. It isn't a competitive game. This is equivalent to someone sitting by themselves in the back of a mcdonalds playing solitaire and insisting they are doing a competitive activity. There is no competition. You are just a weirdo with a remarkably detached from reality sense of self-importance. You aren't in the fucking NFL. You are just playing a video game like a regular person. Nobody cares about you or knows who you are. There is no "competition". The only thing you are competing with are your delusions.

Defeating an internet dragon on your cow-lady character as the world 500,000th person to do so is not "competitive".

I mean I'm pretty alpha

[Denso]

Yeah that works, if I can just block the 100,000 toxic people in wow I am good to go.

See, this I don't get at all.

I've met probably less than 50 people I'd judge as toxic in my 16 years of playing. (I do play EU though, might be different).

I've had one, that I can think off off the top of my head, since Shadowlands launched. First few years was probably the worst.

Ever reflected on why you seem such a magnet? Are you baiting by chance?

[Amnaught]

I bring up Twixt a lot. It's relevant here.

Google him.

He did a social experiment where he ignored social expectations in favor of playing the game as it's described on the box. He heavy-roleplayed a righteous Hero entering PVP zones to foil the nefarious plots of Villain players. Ambushing and absolutely destroying them, preventing them from getting objectives, etc.

That was a dick move, the players decided. Hero players stopped helping him, and actually mass reported him for harassment. For PVPing in a PVP zone.

Its one of the reasons I think orcish/common should stay disabled by default. It'd just encourage toxicity, towards people who are playing the game as intended.

And then reports for that toxicity, back and forth, until the only people left are the ones doing the whining and reporting.

So no. No harsher strategies against toxicity plz.

[Sucralose]

I bring up Twixt a lot. It's relevant here.

Google him.

He did a social experiment where he ignored social expectations in favor of playing the game as it's described on the box. He heavy-roleplayed a righteous Hero entering PVP zones to foil the nefarious plots of Villain players. Ambushing and absolutely destroying them, preventing them from getting objectives, etc.

That was a dick move, the players decided. Hero players stopped helping him, and actually mass reported him for harassment. For PVPing in a PVP zone.

Its one of the reasons I think orcish/common should stay disabled by default. It'd just encourage toxicity, towards people who are playing the game as intended.

And then reports for that toxicity, back and forth, until the only people left are the ones doing the whining and reporting.

So no. No harsher strategies against toxicity plz.

I mean he abused a teleport skill to exploit town guards. It is on par with people glitching under the terrain in rated pvp to cap locations.

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See, this I don't get at all.

I've met probably less than 50 people I'd judge as toxic in my 16 years of playing. (I do play EU though, might be different).

I've had one, that I can think off off the top of my head, since Shadowlands launched. First few years was probably the worst.

Ever reflected on why you seem such a magnet? Are you baiting by chance?

Toxic players mostly live in the easiest difficulties of the game. If you are competent at playing you rarely encounter them. It is a low mythic plus kind of problem.

[Amnaught]

I mean he abused a teleport skill to exploit town guards. It is on par with people glitching under the terrain in rated pvp to cap locations.

Teleport Foe is a valid attack power. This is more equivalent to attacking someone in a neutral hub, waiting for them to attack back, then dropping the NPC aggro off you and stunning the player. Like, it's a "cheap" move, but it awards an HK, and there has been no communication in 17 years that that isn't intended to work. It's not an exploit. Part of the game is killing enemy players. It shouldnt matter how you do it, barring exploits.

But regardless of whether it's a dick move, I'd argue that the correct response would be to return the offense, escalating the PVP back and forth. Which is why a language barrier is so important in WoW. If somebody pulls shit on you like this, the response is to whine about it in general, then allies gang up to help you, and enemies gang up to defend the jerk. No one came to help Twixt specifically because all of the heroes were able to see the villains bitching about him "not playing fair".

[Sucralose]

Teleport Foe is a valid attack power. This is more equivalent to attacking someone in a neutral hub, waiting for them to attack back, then dropping the NPC aggro off you and stunning the player. Like, it's a "cheap" move, but it awards an HK, and there has been no communication in 17 years that that isn't intended to work. It's not an exploit. Part of the game is killing enemy players. It shouldnt matter how you do it, barring exploits.

But regardless of whether it's a dick move, I'd argue that the correct response would be to return the offense, escalating the PVP back and forth. Which is why a language barrier is so important in WoW. If somebody pulls shit on you like this, the response is to whine about it in general, then allies gang up to help you, and enemies gang up to defend the jerk. No one came to help Twixt specifically because all of the heroes were able to see the villains bitching about him "not playing fair".

He just teleported players into faction guards for hours. He was being an annoying prick and treated as such. To read more into that is simply folly.

You can never return the offense he just sat at the turrets. It would be like someone death gripping you into the dalaran enemy section of the city but they kill you.

[Amnaught]

He just teleported players into faction guards for hours. He was being an annoying prick and treated as such. To read more into that is simply folly.

You can never return the offense he just sat at the turrets. It would be like someone death gripping you into the dalaran enemy section of the city but they kill you.

Solution: 5v1 him with someone who enhanced the range of their Teleport Foe

[Sucralose]

Solution: 5v1 him with someone who enhanced the range of their Teleport Foe

So die to guard turrets to kill a guy who is next to his factions spawn point?

I don't man this still sounds dumb. Just move the turrets from the entrance and you fix the exploit and solve the issue.

[agentsi]

Question is simple--would you like to see a stronger toxicity control team installed within WoW.

Personally after watching DoaG yesterday it's pretty clear Blizzard has a track record of not taking toxicity seriously (I mean...they did hire Alex). But while watching the video it was clear that Blizzard with OW had no intention of trying to make sure players who were harassing others over performance ever saw any type of accountability for their words/speech. Which ultimatley drove OW into the ground it's in now, because without those actual toxicity control measures sponsors were pulling out which started the downward spiral for OW.

As I watched I started thinking to myself the problems that Kaplan faced with OW isn't just an OW issue, this is culture issue at the company. There's no real desire to try and create a welcoming space for everyone inside of their games.

BTW: Here's the link to the video. It's not dude who opines about things, but DoaG only does games that have gone into maintenance mode, or vanished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ZFo8jpDfI

Some people are mean, once you accept that, you'll stop with this bullshit woke mentality of trying to cancel everything and everyone who offends you ever so slightly. Grow up, learn to have thicker skin, and stop being a fucking crybaby. All your problems will be solved.

Why do I have that take on this? Because you will never, ever, in a million years, fix shitty people from being shitty to other folks they feel superior over. Until you eliminate the idea of competition, and in turn remove skill from the equation, and make everyone exactly the same. Then and only then would this go away, but seeing as how that will never happen, just suck it up and accept it. Block them, move on with your life, do whatever you need to do to make yourself happy. Because chances are that person doing that in-game has a worse life than you.

[Tziva]

What even IS toxic?

Is it not paying attention to chat during a dungeon run so you miss people telling you not to stand in the fire, or that the healer needs a mana break?

Is it the idiot mage constantly pulling mob groups? Or is it the healer who lets him die on purpose when he won't listen to requests to stop?

Is it the player who's too lazy to even look at the encounter journal and getting the group killed because he doesn't know the mechanics of the fight?

Is it the player who's half-afk during a dungeon or raid expecting to get carried? Or is it the LFG group who kicks the poor little single mom who had to leave every two minutes because her kid kept screaming?

Is it the person who's consistently late to guild runs, shows up without potions or food, and annoys everyone on Discord? Or is it the raid leader who kicks him from the group?

This is part of the problem with addressing it. Everyone tends to define toxicity differently, and many quite broadly. To some players, a person just being below average skill is "toxic." Even these same things have different severity if they happen in, say, a normal leveling dungeon verses someone's high push keystone. Additionally, a lot of people assume malicious intent on things that are, frankly, innocent mistakes which everyone makes sometimes.

Case in point, I killed a PuG in a keystone today by hitting an immunity and running into the fox on Mistcaller. Unfortunately, I didn't notice him standing there when I did it, he got iceblocked, and then immediately killed by a dodgeball. I said "shit I'm so sorry" at the same moment he said "what the fuck asshole" but as soon as he saw my "sorry" he said no big deal it was an accident, and admitted it was kinda funny. His first inclination was to assume I was being a dick. I could have also overreacted to him being upset and called him toxic, but in the end we laughed it off as a stupid mistake and moved on.

That isn't to say inappriopriate behaviour shouldn't be addressed. There are players out there who are excessively rude and abusive, players who throw tantrums when things don't go their way, and those who grief and troll other players for laughs or because they can't get their frustrations out more constructively. I do think players need to be actioned for creating a negative environment, especially when their actions are especially vile, frequent, and often result in a negative experience for other players. But however it is addressed, it needs to not broadly sweep everything into the same brush, and it needs to focus on habitual bad actors.

[kaminaris]

Its pretty simple

ban the fuck out anyone who is even remotely not polite.
Game instantly made 1000x better for literally everyone except special snowflakes that think they are top 10 world raiders screaming at bad players in LFR.

Don't like it? too bad, so sad, find some toxic cesspool where you can be mean to everyone.

Be toxic in your guild or with your acquaintances, anything public? Insta ban.

[Garymorilix]

Oh boy, this is an interesting comment.

First, I'm not trying to silence you. I disagree with you. I told you why I disagree with you. Unless anything but blind agreement to your position is "silencing?"

Second, if being hostile to co-workers, friends, acquaintances, or whoever else, is the norm in eastern europe, then I'm very happy I live in Canada. In Canada, if you're berating people in public, you get very funny looks, and people jump in and demand what your problem is. It's just completely unacceptable behaviour here.

Thirdly, I'm the furthest thing from sheltered. I've experienced a lot of raw conflict before. I can handle it. I just ... don't want needless hostility in my life, and certainly not in my leisure time. It's not good for your mental health, nor for your physical health. Blood pressure rising from stressful situations is a thing.

Fourth, not everybody can easily leave, due to age, maturity, or a host of other reasons. When a stranger unloads on you in a group setting, it paralyzes some people. It's not because they're weak either. Everyone is different. Not everyone can take a stranger yelling at them, whether by text or voice communications. That also is called cyber bulling, and that's something you can be prosecuted here for. Why? We understand the harm that such behaviours have on mental health.

Lastly, if you're just going to come back with "bro you're weak and sheltered; grow a spine," then this will be my last comment to you; as it would become apparent that you just don't grasp the complexities of toxic, hostile behaviour on human beings.

I didn't mean you specifically, more as a general statement.

It's not the norm, don't twist my words.
Just like it's not the norm in M+ or raids either.
But if you do fuck up big time you are going to get called out hard. As you should be. Cuz if you're not called out then you won't be bothered to give a fuck to not do it again. It's basic human nature. Negative experiences stick with you, so you can either grow from them or cry and be a baby about it.

See, me neither, I'm not a fan of endless conflict.
You know what else I'm not a fan of? People wasting my leisure time.
Issue is, people like you don't care about the cause of any situation. Like over protective mothers when their kids bully someone and the actual victim dares to fight back. "But my boy is sooo innocent look he got hit", yea sure. Don't take this analogy literally (i cant believe I have to clarify this), you get the point.

What do you mean not everyone can easily leave?
Doing NOTHING is literally the easiest thing anyone can do. Especially online where you are 1 click away from ignoring someone for the rest of existence.

So is everyone different or is everyone a big collective of cry babies that need to be protected from the boogey man?
If everyone is different, and by that an individual, then shouldn't they be expected to deal with their own shit themselves as individuals are?
Wouldn't that be the ideal position to take?
See the problem with admitting that "everyone is different" is that you also admit that there are people who will absolutely bring the smoke if you fuck their time up. Those don't matter because why again? I feel like you're picking sides here while I am the one who encourages people to figure out their own mess.

[Daish]

Both things are not helpful and have never made the situation better in any way, wasting your own time pretty much even more.
Someone won't start instantly developing proper muscle memory, decision making and class knowledge if you call them out on being bad, they'll likely just get pissed and make the situation worse.

If someone isn't carrying their own weight you kick them or leave the group, no need to start insulting people.

you also have the ability to leave the group and avoid the person there is even a magical function that will block all communication from the person WOW....

going around trying to get people banned for almost no reason without a clear rule being broken will do more "Damage" to the community and the game then your feelings getting hurt