View Poll Results: Should WoW invest in a toxicity control team

Voters
214. This poll is closed
  • Yes

    114 53.27%
  • No

    100 46.73%
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  1. #161
    Its pretty simple

    ban the fuck out anyone who is even remotely not polite.
    Game instantly made 1000x better for literally everyone except special snowflakes that think they are top 10 world raiders screaming at bad players in LFR.

    Don't like it? too bad, so sad, find some toxic cesspool where you can be mean to everyone.

    Be toxic in your guild or with your acquaintances, anything public? Insta ban.
    Ship has been abandoned.
    ---

    NextUI for XIV


  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Eli85 View Post
    Oh boy, this is an interesting comment.

    First, I'm not trying to silence you. I disagree with you. I told you why I disagree with you. Unless anything but blind agreement to your position is "silencing?"

    Second, if being hostile to co-workers, friends, acquaintances, or whoever else, is the norm in eastern europe, then I'm very happy I live in Canada. In Canada, if you're berating people in public, you get very funny looks, and people jump in and demand what your problem is. It's just completely unacceptable behaviour here.

    Thirdly, I'm the furthest thing from sheltered. I've experienced a lot of raw conflict before. I can handle it. I just ... don't want needless hostility in my life, and certainly not in my leisure time. It's not good for your mental health, nor for your physical health. Blood pressure rising from stressful situations is a thing.

    Fourth, not everybody can easily leave, due to age, maturity, or a host of other reasons. When a stranger unloads on you in a group setting, it paralyzes some people. It's not because they're weak either. Everyone is different. Not everyone can take a stranger yelling at them, whether by text or voice communications. That also is called cyber bulling, and that's something you can be prosecuted here for. Why? We understand the harm that such behaviours have on mental health.

    Lastly, if you're just going to come back with "bro you're weak and sheltered; grow a spine," then this will be my last comment to you; as it would become apparent that you just don't grasp the complexities of toxic, hostile behaviour on human beings.
    I didn't mean you specifically, more as a general statement.

    It's not the norm, don't twist my words.
    Just like it's not the norm in M+ or raids either.
    But if you do fuck up big time you are going to get called out hard. As you should be. Cuz if you're not called out then you won't be bothered to give a fuck to not do it again. It's basic human nature. Negative experiences stick with you, so you can either grow from them or cry and be a baby about it.

    See, me neither, I'm not a fan of endless conflict.
    You know what else I'm not a fan of? People wasting my leisure time.
    Issue is, people like you don't care about the cause of any situation. Like over protective mothers when their kids bully someone and the actual victim dares to fight back. "But my boy is sooo innocent look he got hit", yea sure. Don't take this analogy literally (i cant believe I have to clarify this), you get the point.

    What do you mean not everyone can easily leave?
    Doing NOTHING is literally the easiest thing anyone can do. Especially online where you are 1 click away from ignoring someone for the rest of existence.

    So is everyone different or is everyone a big collective of cry babies that need to be protected from the boogey man?
    If everyone is different, and by that an individual, then shouldn't they be expected to deal with their own shit themselves as individuals are?
    Wouldn't that be the ideal position to take?
    See the problem with admitting that "everyone is different" is that you also admit that there are people who will absolutely bring the smoke if you fuck their time up. Those don't matter because why again? I feel like you're picking sides here while I am the one who encourages people to figure out their own mess.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias View Post
    Both things are not helpful and have never made the situation better in any way, wasting your own time pretty much even more.
    Someone won't start instantly developing proper muscle memory, decision making and class knowledge if you call them out on being bad, they'll likely just get pissed and make the situation worse.

    If someone isn't carrying their own weight you kick them or leave the group, no need to start insulting people.
    you also have the ability to leave the group and avoid the person there is even a magical function that will block all communication from the person WOW....

    going around trying to get people banned for almost no reason without a clear rule being broken will do more "Damage" to the community and the game then your feelings getting hurt

  4. #164
    Toxicity sure, but it can be subjective.

    I'd like to have the games and their audience be mature enough to be told; "Oi, stop being a fucking idiot and do your job" without it being seen as an attack. Games can get frustrating, people should be allowed to vent, but when it starts turning into homophobic, racist or otherwise disgusting behaviour that person should be dealt with.

  5. #165
    In all my time play i have found the ignore option to be ample defence against toxic people.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    Yes, but not in the form of more automated systems or algorithms, but in the form of GAME MODERATORS, AKA actual human beings hired and trained to keep the peace. Otherwise, it's fucking worthless.
    without the word "Toxic" or "Toxicity" existing Blizzard would of never been able to add the current auto ban system that will ban a players account after 10 reports within a 24 hour window


    with the word "Toxic and "Toxicity" Blizzard do not have to give people a reason to why they were banned
    with the word "Toxic and "Toxicity" existing its the only reason why almost all GM's were fired

    without giving a "real" reason for actions taken they can protect themselves
    its a mess

  7. #167
    If anything there isn't enough negative toxicity to balance out/counter the surge of positive toxicity.
    All of this time we thought Blizzard was hard at work on our games. As it turns out, they were just hard at work.

    Where in the world is Ion Hazzikostas?
    Quote Originally Posted by Theangryone View Post
    At home with his spread sheets trying to find the coefficient for fun.

  8. #168
    Alternatively you can either stay within your scope or the game or get good and the 'toxicity' problem magically disappears

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    If anything there isn't enough negative toxicity to balance out/counter the surge of positive toxicity.
    What do you mean? If I pug a low level mythic key on an alt and the leader doesn't threaten to murder a family member because I leave after they wipe a dozen times am I even playing WoW at that point?

  10. #170
    Anyone who says yes is just a liberal snowflake
    I've played WoW since 2005 and i've played ffxiv since 2019

    The biggest flaw in ffxiv is that everyone is afraid to say anything because of the games tough stance on toxicity. It's not that people are toxic it's that the blue hair snowflakes report everyone for anything, if enough people report you a GM will consider whatever it is you're being reported for, toxic as well.
    It's a really sad world at times, imagine in real life if free speech didn't exist and you could go to jail for sharing an opinion or speak your mind, would you want that?

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    Anyone who says yes is just a liberal snowflake
    I've played WoW since 2005 and i've played ffxiv since 2019

    The biggest flaw in ffxiv is that everyone is afraid to say anything because of the games tough stance on toxicity. It's not that people are toxic it's that the blue hair snowflakes report everyone for anything, if enough people report you a GM will consider whatever it is you're being reported for, toxic as well.
    It's a really sad world at times, imagine in real life if free speech didn't exist and you could go to jail for sharing an opinion or speak your mind, would you want that?
    Thats not a problem, thats a solution.

    What sad is that people equalize free speech with shittalking other people.
    Newsflash, your "free speech" ends where the right of others begin.

    Imagine a real life that you could flame and swear on random people and get away with it.

    Sharing opinion in civil manner won't get you banned in XIV, shittalking will. And in automated group nobody cares about your opinion on specifically other people.
    Ship has been abandoned.
    ---

    NextUI for XIV


  12. #172
    In general:

    PEOPLE should try to become less toxic, sure.

    What shall the company do? All they can do in the end is not act toxic themselves, sure, but regarding other people, the player, community, it's of course about to not allow certaing things like racism - but beyond that? It's not like you change reality by putting a cover over it. It's not like you make your community better by enforcing 'nice' behaviour via violence. In contrary, when you for example shut down any kind of criticism or discussion, because those can heat up and just don't 'feel nice' (= toxic?), you just create an echo chamber, a circle jerk and in the end enforce another kind of toxic behaviour, that of a cult, since you simply stomp anything else.

    Look into sects. In a way the facade of those are often if not always very welcoming, charming, alluring. It seems to be a place of happy people who all got a deep understanding of each other, who care about each other, who are all so supportive.

    But the simple reason for that is, no other behaviour is even allowed.

    Also: being called names for sure does not feel nice, but at least you know how things are.

    What is good about forced = fake good behaviour?

    Not sure if you ever got this problem in your own life, but think about a friend for example, who acts all nice all day, but in reality he DOES think you are an ass****, he simply does not tell YOU. Is this better or worse?

    When it comes to PvP:

    Well, PvP is about that someone must lose so others can win. It's kind of the whole point to be 'toxic', to make others feel bad, to make others lose, to take the fun of success away from them. And of course when (you feel like) someone of your own team ruins your success, that won't lead to happy feelings, either.

    It's absolutely no surprise, that it pushes the whole community in a 'toxic' direction.

    If you really want to do something against that - well, then abolish PvP and make it coop (and then you still would have the problem with team mates being able to ruin your success). Everything else would just enforce fake positivity. And that's just toxic all on itself.

    What every company of course should do is doing something against bot and hacks, against every kind of cheating. Beause it's cheating.
    Last edited by Miriamel105; 2022-01-17 at 05:13 AM.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Thats not a problem, thats a solution.

    What sad is that people equalize free speech with shittalking other people.
    Newsflash, your "free speech" ends where the right of others begin.

    Imagine a real life that you could flame and swear on random people and get away with it.

    Sharing opinion in civil manner won't get you banned in XIV, shittalking will. And in automated group nobody cares about your opinion on specifically other people.
    I can't say I agree. The second you can't call a shitter a shitter you have lost something vital to any game. It is that little extra spice that makes it extra nice.

    I don't see how the ingame world filter isn't the perfect solution to toxicity combined with ignore.

    All the power IN THE PALM OF YOUR HAND!

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Thats not a problem, thats a solution.

    What sad is that people equalize free speech with shittalking other people.
    Newsflash, your "free speech" ends where the right of others begin.

    Imagine a real life that you could flame and swear on random people and get away with it.

    Sharing opinion in civil manner won't get you banned in XIV, shittalking will. And in automated group nobody cares about your opinion on specifically other people.
    I don't know where people get this from, but you will absolutely not be punished in any way shape or form if you "flame and swear" on random people.
    People don't do it because nobody cares about others until they are a nuisance to you.

    Road rage is a good example of people flaming each other yet in the end absolutely nothing will happen.

    It's the same thing in WoW. Nobody will talk shit to you just because.
    Shit talking starts when you start being a nuisance. Some people will not mind it, some people will not say anything just leave you, and some people will call you out.
    That's how it is everywhere.

    I don't where this "right of others begin" bs comes from, but there is literally nothing that I could say that would strip anyone of their legal rights anywhere on the planet.
    Simply saying shit or calling someone a piece of garbage will not magically transport them to my basement dungeon to mine coal illegally. Not that I have one ofc.

  15. #175
    Banned Gimlix's Avatar
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    I just talked how i always talked in the 12 years of playing this game and i just got banned 2 weeks from it.
    And i even simped for Blizzard for weeks straight defending against the "Copium" haters.

  16. #176
    Imagine trusting nuBlizzard with the task of curbing something as nebulous as "toxicity" and as pervasive as bad behavior.

    They'll just make some shitty third-rate algorithm that blanket bans anyone that it detects without consideration for nuance.

  17. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    Question is simple--would you like to see a stronger toxicity control team installed within WoW.

    Personally after watching DoaG yesterday it's pretty clear Blizzard has a track record of not taking toxicity seriously (I mean...they did hire Alex). But while watching the video it was clear that Blizzard with OW had no intention of trying to make sure players who were harassing others over performance ever saw any type of accountability for their words/speech. Which ultimatley drove OW into the ground it's in now, because without those actual toxicity control measures sponsors were pulling out which started the downward spiral for OW.

    As I watched I started thinking to myself the problems that Kaplan faced with OW isn't just an OW issue, this is culture issue at the company. There's no real desire to try and create a welcoming space for everyone inside of their games.

    BTW: Here's the link to the video. It's not dude who opines about things, but DoaG only does games that have gone into maintenance mode, or vanished.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ZFo8jpDfI
    they can't afford to ban those people, they already have next to no 'real' playerbase left, if they got rid of these people they would have nothing lol.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Imagine trusting nuBlizzard with the task of curbing something as nebulous as "toxicity" and as pervasive as bad behavior.

    They'll just make some shitty third-rate algorithm that blanket bans anyone that it detects without consideration for nuance.
    as we saw with the metoo thing, context and 'evidence' don't matter anymore these days.

    retired march 2013 RIP - returned january 2016, purely because paladins finally get Ashbringer!

  18. #178
    Any company that utilizes an automated reporting system does not give a shit about curbing any kind of real toxicity within their game or fostering an actual community.

    It's sad, but it's true.

  19. #179
    It depends how you look at it. You will always face toxicity and a huge online game like WoW is destined to have some, its been this way since vanilla. There is no real way to change peoples behaviour either, but what Blizzard should attempt is to ENCOURAGE people to behave. Having proper group content for people to progress their characters where it helps a lot to be kind to others worked out great while leveling in Classic. M+ is like the complete opposite despite also being group content, its encouraged to bring out the worst out of people who don't perform exactly like they expect. Its good for Twitch viewers to watch (who also like drama) unlike watching someone do casually quests, but in a game like WoW it should prioritise having people interact and have fun with each other. But content like this is not something that is easily found these days. Alternatively they should just hire more people to actually keep an eye on the game and react to reports immediatly when someone gets harrased, but Blizzard basically fired most of their staff who used to do these kind of work.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Wu View Post
    Any company that utilizes an automated reporting system does not give a shit about curbing any kind of real toxicity within their game or fostering an actual community.

    It's sad, but it's true.
    I don't think an automated system itself is bad, it's how it operates.

    If they just take X reports as a need to ban someone, that's a terrible system, but more reports should flag that person higher in the queue for review by staff. Equally, as long as the game developers have built proper tooling, everything should be taken into consideration. Was the person trolling, being rude and abusive in ways that go beyond just saying something in the game.

    I wouldn't want to ever have a game where you couldn't swear at / or call out people for being stupid, but honestly most of the time people are being ridiculous in their concerns or complaints. If you're trying to tell someone; "Oi, will you fucking move that mob it's healing in that puddle!" that should be absolutely fine, but turning around and sending a barrage of abuse, racist or homophobic crap to someone just isn't on.

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