View Poll Results: Should WoW invest in a toxicity control team

Voters
214. This poll is closed
  • Yes

    114 53.27%
  • No

    100 46.73%
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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Okay then, if you have an ugly painting and you hang a blanket over it, does the painting stop being ugly?

    Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, dealing with it does.
    It actually does make it go away in a game though...

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by LTN View Post
    Or people can just ignore people who ignore them and everyone gets what they want.
    That's not how harassment is handled. I really hope you don't work for HR at any company. Because just telling people "just ignore them" when it comes to harassment is asinine.

  3. #443
    I'm pretty sure they already do punish players who repeatedly harass even after the two players have long crossed paths, which is what really needs to be dealt with but is fairly uncommon.

    Any other sort of policing system like this never works well. In WoW you can already just leave a group with no penalty if somebody is griefing, so the only actual toxicity is just words. Just accept that there are going to be assholes if you queue with random players, and that the anonymity brings that. Assholes, who, by the way, cannot effect you in any gameplay sense and whom you can just /ignore. The solution is to find a group of people you actually like.

    You will literally never see the person again after the dungeon/boss/pvp match, so /ignore and move on.

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Self Inflicted Wounds View Post
    You aren't arguing in good faith here, but thats for the course. No one is actually saying saying calling children slurs is fine. But WoW already has multiple ways to deal with that. Most/all the scenarios you keep bringing up are the ultra extreme and I would say no common at all. You can already report people and ignore them for saying slurs. If enough people report they will be silenced and eventually banned\suspended. Playing since early 05, and the amount of times I have seen someone say the n word is very low. Some of the other examples you are mentioning are straight illegal in most? countries, and should be met with the law. Its definitely a fallacy for your reply to "I don't trust one persons example of basic toxicity" to then be "Oh so you're fine with sexual harassment, online stalking, and saying racial slurs to children?"

    Mainly because those things are already against the ToS and result in bans, and no one here that I have seen is advocating for that threshold to lessen. In my opinion, routinely arguing in bad faith is toxic, while others in this thread have literally said would consider mentioning player performance at all is toxic, and that you should instead leave the group if you are upset that someone is playing badly instead of commenting on it, at all. "What is toxicity" isn't something that can really be answered easily. But like, 12 year olds can also use the profanity filter and not even be aware of what words were used.

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    Besides stifling so much freedom, my other problem with this point is how truly fake it is. We can all applaud FF for its rules, but most/many of those player sonly listen because they have to, as you basically said. I don't think at all its a culture issue. FF fans on this very forum are often nasty, and places like Reddit and Twitter are pretty awful too. You can see just as much "toxicity" on those subs.
    Yes, and why is that? I see you conveniently let out my example that answers that from the quote.

    Freedom without order is anarchy.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    That's not how harassment is handled. I really hope you don't work for HR at any company. Because just telling people "just ignore them" when it comes to harassment is asinine.
    It is a video game.. it isn't a profession unless you are one of about a hundred people. It isnt a career with your livelihood at stake.

    It is a game... just use ignore.

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by LTN View Post
    It is a video game.. it isn't a profession unless you are one of about a hundred people. It isnt a career with your livelihood at stake.

    It is a game... just use ignore.
    Again, saying "just ignore them" solves absolutely nothing. Imagine if you were being harassed by someone and the cops said "Just ignore them"

  7. #447
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarys View Post
    Nope.. "toxicity" isn't a thing and is easily solved by a working ignore button, or if it's straight up illegal stuff, get the authorities involved.

    However botting, advertising etc. hell yes. This sort of stuff ruins the game for everyone and just ignoring them won't help.
    Toxicity IS a thing and has been since forever, just more prominent now because people don't know how to think. If you want to be toxic, go use your freedom of speech outside. This, and everything private, has no freedom of speed support.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Again, saying "just ignore them" solves absolutely nothing. Imagine if you were being harassed by someone and the cops said "Just ignore them"
    Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away, fixing the problem makes it go away and the only ones who can fix the problem are Blizzard. If someone can't control their speech and their emotions around their peers they should be banned for a period of time, if they don't improve they should be permanently banned. You don't get to behave like that and suffer no consequences in a healthy environment.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Toxicity IS a thing and has been since forever, just more prominent now because people don't know how to think. If you want to be toxic, go use your freedom of speech outside. This, and everything private, has no freedom of speed support.
    Did I say anything about freedom of speech? I think companies that police their game outside the boundaries of gameplay related issues and the law just make their games bad.. it's not their obligation to do it and they shouldn't. The ignore button should solve all issues related to verbal abuse. I don't understand why you think this wouldn't be enough because if a "toxic" player can no longer communicate with you, how does that not solve the problem?

    The main reason why I'm personally against this sort of stuff is it ruins PvP and other competitive elements. If say Blizzard started banning "toxic" players.. how long till you think it would take before they started banning gankers or those who say target you and outbid all your auctions, kick you from the group to replace you with a friend or because you're bad etc.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away, fixing the problem makes it go away and the only ones who can fix the problem are Blizzard. If someone can't control their speech and their emotions around their peers they should be banned for a period of time, if they don't improve they should be permanently banned. You don't get to behave like that and suffer no consequences in a healthy environment.
    I completely agree. People harassing others really need to be shown there will be consequences to their actions. Putting someone on ignore with no other punishment does nothing but embolden them to be shitty to other people. Which in turn creates MORE issues because now more people are seeing that they can be as toxic as they want and never get punished for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarys View Post
    Did I say anything about freedom of speech? I think companies that police their game outside the boundaries of gameplay related issues and the law just make their games bad.. it's not their obligation to do it and they shouldn't. The ignore button should solve all issues related to verbal abuse. I don't understand why you think this wouldn't be enough because if a "toxic" player can no longer communicate with you, how does that not solve the problem?

    The main reason why I'm personally against this sort of stuff is it ruins PvP and other competitive elements. If say Blizzard started banning "toxic" players.. how long till you think it would take before they started banning gankers or those who say target you and outbid all your auctions, kick you from the group to replace you with a friend or because you're bad etc.
    So you're saying that companies that punish people for harassing other players in game are actually bad companies? How utterly asinine. As I just mentioned, just telling someone to put the harasser on ignore does nothing but show them and other toxic people that their actions will have absolutely no negative consequences for them. The narrative you are pushing in your post is exactly why WoW's community has gotten so toxic. Because instead of punishing problem players, Blizzard tends to let them run rampant. And if banning players who harass others somehow damages pvp, too bad. People can learn to either be civil or start getting hit with punishments for making someone else's playtime a negative experience.

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I completely agree. People harassing others really need to be shown there will be consequences to their actions. Putting someone on ignore with no other punishment does nothing but embolden them to be shitty to other people. Which in turn creates MORE issues because now more people are seeing that they can be as toxic as they want and never get punished for it.

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    So you're saying that companies that punish people for harassing other players in game are actually bad companies? How utterly asinine. As I just mentioned, just telling someone to put the harasser on ignore does nothing but show them and other toxic people that their actions will have absolutely no negative consequences for them. The narrative you are pushing in your post is exactly why WoW's community has gotten so toxic. Because instead of punishing problem players, Blizzard tends to let them run rampant. And if banning players who harass others somehow damages pvp, too bad. People can learn to either be civil or start getting hit with punishments for making someone else's playtime a negative experience.
    It's a base fear that people have that if they express any opinion that's not "mainstream" enough, which to any conservative means any of their opinions, they'll be banned. But I've yet to see that be the case, or I've yet ITT to see someone make that case.

    The concern is if you're in a pug, and someone starts berating you without offering any type of constructive feedback. Ya that person should be banned, no I'm not kidding, start making an example out of them, and soon the game with righted itself.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    The concern is if you're in a pug, and someone starts berating you without offering any type of constructive feedback. Ya that person should be banned, no I'm not kidding, start making an example out of them, and soon the game with righted itself.
    What if they just leave after realising the group isn't what they thought it'd be? Didn't say anything negative, didn't voice any opinions - just left. What should happen then?

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    What if they just leave after realising the group isn't what they thought it'd be? Didn't say anything negative, didn't voice any opinions - just left. What should happen then?
    I don't understand why you are asking this. We're talking about people who feel the need to degrade people in the group because they're not playing the game they want them to. If someone leaves a group without being nasty to people? Sure it can be annoying but not really punishment worthy. Unless they're someone who joins mythic+ groups then leave in the middle. That's a dick move.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    What if they just leave after realising the group isn't what they thought it'd be? Didn't say anything negative, didn't voice any opinions - just left. What should happen then?
    Nothing? Why should anything happen?

    We're all here to have a good time and game, there is never any need to berate someone or insult them.
    Someone isn't carrying their weight? Just leave the group/boot them out or tell them in a non-insulting way, even with my limited vocabulary I somehow manage to do that, insulting or berating them will and never has made the situation better period.

    In general it feels like some people here feel entitled to that to vent, seek out help, pls.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Toybox View Post
    What if they just leave after realising the group isn't what they thought it'd be? Didn't say anything negative, didn't voice any opinions - just left. What should happen then?
    I kinda feel like there's nothing here to punish. Does it suck, sure, but you can't manage that because well that person didn't do anything.

    What we're talking about is pretty specific. You can see it in this thread the most vocal opponents to this somehow all find themselves talking about "bads" and ya that's who should be targeted.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias View Post
    Nothing? Why should anything happen?

    We're all here to have a good time and game, there is never any need to berate someone or insult them.
    Someone isn't carrying their weight? Just leave the group/boot them out or tell them in a non-insulting way, even with my limited vocabulary I somehow manage to do that, insulting or berating them will and never has made the situation better period.

    If you feel entitled to that to vent, seek out help, pls.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    I don't understand why you are asking this. We're talking about people who feel the need to degrade people in the group because they're not playing the game they want them to. If someone leaves a group without being nasty to people? Sure it can be annoying but not really punishment worthy. Unless they're someone who joins mythic+ groups then leave in the middle. That's a dick move.
    I agree with both of you - There's no reason to insult random people on the internet because they messed up a mechanic in a dungeon/raid or whatever.

    I'm just wondering where people draw the line on toxicity. I've seen people suggesting leaving a dungeon mid-key is toxic, even if the group is absolutely horrendous & was just wondering what the OP thought about that. Is waiting until a rare is 10% before hitting it toxic? Is it toxic to teabag in PvP?

    Everyone's line is in a difference place, & I'm just curious as to where people put it.

    (FWIW, I don't pug anything - playing the game to pug forever is like going to a party to sit in the corner & talk to no-one )

    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    I kinda feel like there's nothing here to punish. Does it suck, sure, but you can't manage that because well that person didn't do anything.

    What we're talking about is pretty specific. You can see it in this thread the most vocal opponents to this somehow all find themselves talking about "bads" and ya that's who should be targeted.
    Fair enough They should just stop keys from degrading if you fail the timer, so there's nothing "lost" in a worst case scenario. You can drop them super easily anyway.

  17. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then it was a bad example since we're talking about systems that absolutely didn't work for what they were intended to be there for.

    The only things that are comparable are bans for exploits, which still happens in WoW. Other than that, anyone can be an asshole without being banned, same as it is in WoW. The enforcement of various actions remains inconsistent in both games, and are based on the 'whims of the GM' most of the time.

    That you think it worked fine in UO pretty much would mean you think WOW's current system of banning exploits and GM's occasionally enforcing things on a case-by-case basis is fine too. In both cases, it rarely happens often enough to actually make any meaningful change to the community overall.
    Eh, the more I think on it, the more I remember it not really working fine as I initially said. It was a different game though, if someone was being a putz, you could just kill them, loot their body, and set their head on your doorstep. (provided you won the fight that is) Heck, at one point you could bomb people standing inside guard zones with purple potions and crates.

    There was definitely no shortage of assholes, hell, Trammel was created because of them IIRC. So, aye, I'd have to roll back my first comment, it is indeed a bad example, though I still maintain that the current system of relying solely on automated "right click report" systems doesn't work either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  18. #458
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    They could tighten things up a bit to discourage toxic commentary and player behavior, for sure. More frequent soft bans with harsher penalties for repeat offenders would be welcome.

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Again, saying "just ignore them" solves absolutely nothing. Imagine if you were being harassed by someone and the cops said "Just ignore them"
    Imagine if that instantly stopped them from interacting with me in any way shape or form?

    Again this is a video game...

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprias View Post
    Nothing? Why should anything happen?

    We're all here to have a good time and game, there is never any need to berate someone or insult them.
    Someone isn't carrying their weight? Just leave the group/boot them out or tell them in a non-insulting way, even with my limited vocabulary I somehow manage to do that, insulting or berating them will and never has made the situation better period.

    In general it feels like some people here feel entitled to that to vent, seek out help, pls.
    Wow imagine that, leaving a group without insulting them, sounds like a horror story for wow players

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    Quote Originally Posted by LTN View Post
    Imagine if that instantly stopped them from interacting with me in any way shape or form?

    Again this is a video game...
    "this is a video game" what kind of nonsense argument is that? Does a public space being video game suddenly allows for normally socially unacceptable behaviors?
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