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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliena View Post
    Wrong!

    Boarder control and Brexit are still active issue's and will be till resolved (NI says hi!) you can hand wave it away all you want, but Boris's goverment hasn't finished Brexit, they have fucked it up at every turn and tried to backtrack on agreements they signed, so yep it was 6 years ago and the Tories have failed to sort it out.

    Some of the reasons why many older people (but not all) voted for it was to take back control of the boarders, egged on by right ring rags "if we leave the EU we can keep them all out!" type bullshit, I know people who are proud they voted for Brexit and if pressed on the subject after getting passed the "EU Bad" media friendly sound bites, often a racist reason or justification would popped out, "we all ready have to many of them, we should send them all back!" etc and they also expressed other's in their circle's had similar views and all funnily enough most tend to read right leaning newspapers.

    So to your earlier point, yes we are still living in the 1970's, just less people express racist views openly in public (apart from idiots), the type who happily cheered for Windrush and Rwanda and will happily ignore morality because "they are not the same as us and only interested in sponging off us" and ignoring all the migrant workers who add the the country, by doing the jobs nobody here wants to do.

    A lot of the older people who voted for Brexit are still alive and some could easily still be here to vote in 20+ years, do you real think older peoples attitudes to different ethnicities has changed since the brexit vote?

    So no I don't think they would be happy voting for a non-white, no matter how many times he has read Margert Thatcher's autobiography.
    You say I'm 'Wrong!' and then type out that word salad basically accusing leavers of being racists. Weird.

    Listen I can't be arsed with all this nonsense. The debate is over and I can't be bothered going over it again. But perhaps one day you'll come to the realisation that the type of nonsense you have typed out above helped cost us the referendum.

    I would like to draw your attention to this tweet in response to everyone's favourite fox clubbing barrister stating the same type of ignorant opinion as you;

    'Jolyon Maugham should not have posted this. I am glad he has deleted it. This kind of "imputed prejudice" (I'm not racist but I fear *they* are) was a v important barrier to minority voice & representation in the 80s & 90s. It has surely been increasingly proved wrong post-2010.'

    https://twitter.com/sundersays/statu...70107962544128

    Next time you feel like telling us how racist everyone else is, have a think about it.

  2. #602
    So you have nothing then.

    Thanks for letting me know.
    Quote Originally Posted by sircaw View Post
    Credibility, Stuff you and the horse you rode in, why would i want to be seen as credible in your eyes, you people, "Extreme left nutta's " are the worst of what this forum has to offer.

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post

    Next time you feel like telling us how racist everyone else is, have a think about it.

    My girlfriend actually did a lovely paper on Brexit for her law degree in her international law class. The places that voted highest for Brexit had the least amount of immigrants and yet cited immigration as their number one or one of their most important reasons. And they generally had a pretty specific type of person that totally wasn't race based but just so happened to be people that had a skin color that rhmyed with back or town and religions that rhymed with shcmislam. That's ignoring the blatantly obvious racist rhetoric and dog whistling used by both voters and organizers.


    So either they're racist. Or they're stupid. Or both. And we're seeing that very fact right now as Brexit plays out. Not all Brexiters were racist. Some had idiotic and blatantly obviously stupid thoughts on how the economy would be this glorious unstoppable beast post Brexit. But blatant xenophobia was a significant driver for a significant portion of Brexiteers.

    You pretending otherwise is just plain pathetic. You go ahead and appease the racists. I'll spend my efforts elsewhere.
    “Logic: The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.”
    "Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others."
    Ambrose Bierce
    The Bird of Hermes Is My Name, Eating My Wings To Make Me Tame.

  4. #604
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    My girlfriend actually did a lovely paper on Brexit for her law degree in her international law class. The places that voted highest for Brexit had the least amount of immigrants and yet cited immigration as their number one or one of their most important reasons. And they generally had a pretty specific type of person that totally wasn't race based but just so happened to be people that had a skin color that rhmyed with back or town and religions that rhymed with shcmislam. That's ignoring the blatantly obvious racist rhetoric and dog whistling used by both voters and organizers.


    So either they're racist. Or they're stupid. Or both. And we're seeing that very fact right now as Brexit plays out. Not all Brexiters were racist. Some had idiotic and blatantly obviously stupid thoughts on how the economy would be this glorious unstoppable beast post Brexit. But blatant xenophobia was a significant driver for a significant portion of Brexiteers.

    You pretending otherwise is just plain pathetic. You go ahead and appease the racists. I'll spend my efforts elsewhere.
    I hope that paper for the law degree included a study on the Attorney General, Suella Braverman. If many, perhaps all, in the ERG support her she is good enough for me as next PM.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/w...-b1011180.html

    Hope that doesn't make me a racist.
    In a recent poll 64,831 UK voters were given the opportunity to vote for Rejoin EU and 151 did this, but 64,680 did not.source
    In a more recent poll 82,314 UK voters were given the opportunity to vote for Rejoin EU and 58 did this, but 82,256 did not.source

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I hope that paper for the law degree included a study on the Attorney General, Suella Braverman. If many, perhaps all, in the ERG support her she is good enough for me as next PM.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/w...-b1011180.html

    Hope that doesn't make me a racist.
    Who's your pick for leader? Based on who has put their names forward so far I think Rishi will win it, what do you reckon?

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Listen I can't be arsed with all this nonsense.
    I'd have believed this if the post ended there and didn't go on for a lot longer lol

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I'd have believed this if the post ended there and didn't go on for a lot longer lol
    He doth protest too much methinks.
    Quote Originally Posted by sircaw View Post
    Credibility, Stuff you and the horse you rode in, why would i want to be seen as credible in your eyes, you people, "Extreme left nutta's " are the worst of what this forum has to offer.

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliena View Post
    He doth protest too much methinks.
    Nah, it's just a terminal need to always be right, even when clearly wrong. And be smug where possible.

  9. #609
    I agree, but also a racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by sircaw View Post
    Credibility, Stuff you and the horse you rode in, why would i want to be seen as credible in your eyes, you people, "Extreme left nutta's " are the worst of what this forum has to offer.

  10. #610
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Who's your pick for leader? Based on who has put their names forward so far I think Rishi will win it, what do you reckon?
    I was on team Rishi once, don't see now how he and the baggage he carries can win it. Dreadful chancellor imposing the highest level of taxation in living memory almost, ought to be in the Labour party really.

    I think I would prefer Ben Wallace but does he know enough outside of defence, not sure.

    In the end I would, as the Tory party must for any semblance of future unity, be guided by whoever the ERG back. Steve Baker pulling out of the contest and supporting Suella Braverman is interesting. Think you have to reserve judgment on who will win for a couple of weeks until we have only two candidates left. It is like every man and his dog is throwing their hat in the ring right now.

    Impossible to say. But with 80% of the Tory party being pro-Brexit it will be the most committed Brexiteer that wins. (I hope)
    In a recent poll 64,831 UK voters were given the opportunity to vote for Rejoin EU and 151 did this, but 64,680 did not.source
    In a more recent poll 82,314 UK voters were given the opportunity to vote for Rejoin EU and 58 did this, but 82,256 did not.source

  11. #611
    But Brexit already happened, why would they have to be the most committed to it?

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by Iliena View Post
    I agree, but also a racist.
    It was funnier when he was accusing me of racism, when I explained that Sunak isn't a diversity candidate at all. He's a hardcore Conservative.

    The colour of his skin won't change that, no matter how the Conservative elite try and pretend they're progressive for picking him.
    Last edited by Valkyrst; 2022-07-09 at 12:29 AM.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by Armael View Post
    But Brexit already happened, why would they have to be the most committed to it?
    Because they're morally bankrupt.
    Quote Originally Posted by sircaw View Post
    Credibility, Stuff you and the horse you rode in, why would i want to be seen as credible in your eyes, you people, "Extreme left nutta's " are the worst of what this forum has to offer.

  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    It was funnier when he was accusing me of racism, when I explained that Sunak isn't a diversity candidate at all. He's a hardcore Conservative.

    The colour of his skin won't change that, no matter how the Conservative elite try and pretend they're progressive for picking him.
    Pann doesn't appear to realise that suggesting that someone can't be racist because of their skin colour is, in fact, racist.

    And the policies of this increasingly far right Tory party are, without question, racist. See their latest jape involving Rwanda for proof. The irony of them coming up with that when Windrush is still being sorted out appears to be lost on them. No doubt they are fine with a later government (and tax payers) being hit with the financial implications of their methods.

    I would respond to Pann myself, but I'm increasingly thinking that he's blocked me. Or he's deliberately ignoring what I post. I guess I've slapped him around this forum too often, and he's retreated to his safe space.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    It was funnier when he was accusing me of racism, when I explained that Sunak isn't a diversity candidate at all. He's a hardcore Conservative.

    The colour of his skin won't change that, no matter how the Conservative elite try and pretend they're progressive for picking him.
    To be fair, I read your argument on this and do disagree with you.

    The term “diversity hire” is just a degrading term to indicate you hired outside the “white straight male” convention. It’s mostly used to devalue someone of different race/sexuality/gender his/hers accomplishment of being hired.

    In short, “diversity hire” is just a way of saying “hired despite there being more qualified candidates”.

    A bullshit term in and of itself.

  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    I was on team Rishi once, don't see now how he and the baggage he carries can win it. Dreadful chancellor imposing the highest level of taxation in living memory almost, ought to be in the Labour party really.

    I think I would prefer Ben Wallace but does he know enough outside of defence, not sure.

    In the end I would, as the Tory party must for any semblance of future unity, be guided by whoever the ERG back. Steve Baker pulling out of the contest and supporting Suella Braverman is interesting. Think you have to reserve judgment on who will win for a couple of weeks until we have only two candidates left. It is like every man and his dog is throwing their hat in the ring right now.

    Impossible to say. But with 80% of the Tory party being pro-Brexit it will be the most committed Brexiteer that wins. (I hope)
    I agree that there are questions to be asked over Sunak's time as chancellor. I also think that there are issues over his Green Card status and, although it turned out she had done nothing wrong and ended up paying more tax (that must have been a fun conversation in the Sunak household ), his wife's tax affairs will feed the feeling of one rule them, one rule us.

    However will all that said I still think he is frontrunner. It has been no secret that he has been after the top job ever since Dominic Cummings appointed him chancellor and it shows in how slick his campaign has started. I also think that he has a great deal of support amongst voters for the furlough scheme.

    If he doesn't win it this time he is certainly a future Con leader.

    Has Wallace put his name forward yet? I think he has done a good job with Ukraine but other than that I don't know much about him.

    Braverman came as a bit of surprise to me. I initially thought she would go nowhere but a heavy weight like Baker putting his support behind her is a massive boost, I still think her bid will be unsuccessful but she is possibly one for the future.

    Personally I'm hoping that Javid puts his name forward. I thought he was a decent, if untested, chancellor and he seems to have done well with health but the thing I really like him for was his refusal to do Cumming's bidding and that he put principle before self advancement - a rare quality in today's politics.

    It should be an interesting next few weeks.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    I agree that there are questions to be asked over Sunak's time as chancellor. I also think that there are issues over his Green Card status and, although it turned out she had done nothing wrong and ended up paying more tax (that must have been a fun conversation in the Sunak household ), his wife's tax affairs will feed the feeling of one rule them, one rule us.

    However will all that said I still think he is frontrunner. It has been no secret that he has been after the top job ever since Dominic Cummings appointed him chancellor and it shows in how slick his campaign has started. I also think that he has a great deal of support amongst voters for the furlough scheme.

    If he doesn't win it this time he is certainly a future Con leader.

    Has Wallace put his name forward yet? I think he has done a good job with Ukraine but other than that I don't know much about him.

    Braverman came as a bit of surprise to me. I initially thought she would go nowhere but a heavy weight like Baker putting his support behind her is a massive boost, I still think her bid will be unsuccessful but she is possibly one for the future.

    Personally I'm hoping that Javid puts his name forward. I thought he was a decent, if untested, chancellor and he seems to have done well with health but the thing I really like him for was his refusal to do Cumming's bidding and that he put principle before self advancement - a rare quality in today's politics.

    It should be an interesting next few weeks.
    Well would you look at that. Having thrown baseless accusations at Labour, that he refused to back up when challenged, we now have glowing descriptions of several of the leading Tory candidates for the new leader.

    Our "enlightened centrist" Pann, ladies and gentlemen. Totally not right wing at all, oh no. And he'll argue with you for 10 pages if you try and say he is.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Douglas Adams
    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  18. #618
    You can't possibly be Pro-Tory after the shitshow of the past 6 years(at minimum). @Pann

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by Armael View Post
    You can't possibly be Pro-Tory after the shitshow of the past 6 years(at minimum). @Pann
    I am not pro-Tory. I like certain people within the Tory party, I also like people within the Lab but I am not pro-Lab either. I am giving my opinion on the candidates running for the Tory leadership and seeing as one of them will be the PM I think it is worthy of discussion. You're free to offer a counter opinion, you might even change my mind.

    As I said yesterday I am optimistic for British politics - I realise that this is probably misplaced and I will end up disappointed but I prefer to positive whilst I can - as the Tories will improve without Johnson and Lab will also improve as they can no longer win by not being led by Boris Johnson.

    But are dissenting political opinions not allowed or something?!?

    Maybe try to listening to those who have different opinions instead shouting them down? You never know you might not end up agreeing with them but you might gain an understanding of their motivations.

  20. #620
    Suella's comment recently about how we have to "stop with this woke crap and get back to the science of 2 genders" will certainly get her a very specific part of the voting base, at least, I'm sure.

    Not one I'd be incredibly happy to pander to, personally, but she is still a standard Tory, I guess.

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