Crisis in UK, Can Tories Save Liz Truss?

[Huehuecoyotl]

Yeah, yeah, I got it the first time - all leavers are racists, yadda yadda. It's been six years - let it go!

God, you really are blatant with your "anything that disagrees with my world view gets ignored and derided" schtick, aren't you?

Boris and the Tories got in last time because an awful lot of Brexit voters got behind him. Pretty much every racist in the country was included in that group, because while not every person who voted for Brexit was a racist, every racist that voted put their crayon cross next to "leave". That's still a fact today, and trying to pretend that's all in the past is either hilariously naive, or a transparent attempt to steer the narrative in the direction you want.

As for Rishi, you think the mob that thought Boris was a good laugh and the kind of guy they'd have a pint with will now get behind a serious brown person with a tax-dodging billionaire wife? I guess anything is possible since Boris managed to fool as many people as he did, but I wouldn't stake a bent penny on it myself. Especially if the economy is STILL in the toilet by then, because Rishi doesn't undo the worst aspects of Brexit. But that last part goes for any of the Tories that take the leadership on.

[Northern Goblin]

No, they're not. Outside of Twitter and likes the Alistair Campbell the majority of the country has moved on.

Which is why the constant Tory line of "they want to get rid of Brexit" exists? Because of Twitter? It's still parrotted in the Mail and the Express, it's part of the national conversation. The Tories wouldn't give a shit if it was just Twitter talk.

Do you think that was a result of voters being entrenched in their views or them looking at Lab's economic plans and then having their view that Lab could not be trusted with the economy reaffirmed?

Very much entrenched, even when the manifestos were fully costed up, the country generally distrusted the Labour party's viability.

[Pann]

By current polling I assume you don't mean any of yesterday or today's polls that all give Labour comfortable majorities?

Well know what they say about assumptions...

No I mean the up to date polls. Current polling estimates Lab on 298 seats compared to 250 for the Cons this is not enough seats to form a government. The LDs are estimated to win 27 seats which would still be short of an overall majority - let alone a comfortable one - if they entered into a coalition.

https://www.politics.co.uk/reference...opinion-polls/

Obviously this is not an exact science but Lab are far from home and dry when it comes forming a government.

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Very much entrenched, even when the manifestos were fully costed up, the country generally distrusted the Labour party's viability.

Well ok then. There is a massive difference between something being costed and being affordable, fortunately for Lab many of their voters weren't interested in looking past this.

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It's rumoured that Nadine Dorries will put her name forward as comedy entrant. I am hearing that Go-Nads will be her slogan of choice.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Well ok then. There is a massive difference between something being costed and being affordable, fortunately for Lab many of their voters weren't interested in looking past this.

"Costed" means that they said "this is how much it will cost, and this is where we'll get the money from to pay for it". Which you know, of course. Which makes your use of the word "affordable" interesting. Care to explain what you mean by that? Or is this just more of your "enlightened centrist" crap that you're known for?

[Northern Goblin]

Well know what they say about assumptions...

No I mean the up to date polls. Current polling estimates Lab on 298 seats compared to 250 for the Cons this is not enough seats to form a government. The LDs are estimated to win 27 seats which would still be short of an overall majority - let alone a comfortable one - if they entered into a coalition.

Then those most certainly are not the most up to date polls. The up to date polls have Labour on 40%+ and the Conservatives somewhere between 29 and 31.

They predict a majority for Labour between 25 to 50+ seats.

So I was right to assume, as clearly you're not referring to the latest data if you think the polls show Labour on 298 seats.

[Pann]

Then those most certainly are not the most up to date polls. The up to date polls have Labour on 40%+ and the Conservatives somewhere between 29 and 31.

They predict a majority for Labour between 25 to 50+ seats.

So I was right to assume, as clearly you're not referring to the latest data if you think the polls show Labour on 298 seats.

They are an average of the three weeks worth of polls up to yesterday - 7th July. An average is used to give a more accurate picture.

The polls from the last three weeks predict 298 seats for Lab. At this point in time this is most accurate prediction that we have and we have no idea if the polls conducted in the last couple of days are outliers or part of an ongoing trend.

I am sorry that I did not make this clear to you.

[Armael]

Averaging polls prior to the 50+ people resigning and then Boris resigning with polls after that is Dribbles level number manipulation. The calculus for this should take into account polls that started from the day these mass exodus' occurred and afterwards only.

[Huehuecoyotl]

The website readyforrishi.com was apparently registered back in December of last year. That's the kind of razor sharp political acumen the Tories need, eh? Put an easily traceable piece of information in the public domain that shows you've been getting ready to stab your boss in the back for at least 6 months, but were waiting for it to be politically advantageous.

I can't see this being used against him by his political opponents, oh no.

I see he's decided to use ready4rishi.com instead, which has literally just been registered. Did he realise he messed up, and try and cover his tracks? If he did, he's showing a distinct lack of understanding of the kind of digital footprint he's left behind.

[Edge-]

The website readyforrishi.com was apparently registered back in December of last year. That's the kind of razor sharp political acumen the Tories need, eh? Put an easily traceable piece of information in the public domain that shows you've been getting ready to stab your boss in the back for at least 6 months, but were waiting for it to be politically advantageous.

I can't see this being used against him by his political opponents, oh no.

I see he's decided to use ready4rishi.com instead, which has literally just been registered. Did he realise he messed up, and try and cover his tracks? If he did, he's showing a distinct lack of understanding of the kind of digital footprint he's left behind.

"No, you see I was just wisely preparing for my parties leader to implode with scandals whilst I defended him publicly. It's actually a Very Smart Political Move!"

Though really, one of (if not the) richest guys in parliament trying to get the PM seat is pretty rich in the current environment. Surely he'll be a man of the people who understands the common working man's problems.

[Ripster42]

The website readyforrishi.com was apparently registered back in December of last year. That's the kind of razor sharp political acumen the Tories need, eh? Put an easily traceable piece of information in the public domain that shows you've been getting ready to stab your boss in the back for at least 6 months, but were waiting for it to be politically advantageous.

Domain squatting is fairly common (as well as the similar practice of URL sniping). Register any domain you can think of, then charge the people who actually might want to use it for the rights to the domain. W/out more info than you gave, I don't see enough here to make that type of conclusion. If we know they were the ones to register it, it would at least be evidence that suggests what you're saying, instead of being completely neutral.

[Iliena]

Yeah, yeah, I got it the first time - all leavers are racists, yadda yadda. It's been six years - let it go!

Wrong!

Boarder control and Brexit are still active issue's and will be till resolved (NI says hi!) you can hand wave it away all you want, but Boris's goverment hasn't finished Brexit, they have fucked it up at every turn and tried to backtrack on agreements they signed, so yep it was 6 years ago and the Tories have failed to sort it out.

Some of the reasons why many older people (but not all) voted for it was to take back control of the boarders, egged on by right ring rags "if we leave the EU we can keep them all out!" type bullshit, I know people who are proud they voted for Brexit and if pressed on the subject after getting passed the "EU Bad" media friendly sound bites, often a racist reason or justification would popped out, "we all ready have to many of them, we should send them all back!" etc and they also expressed other's in their circle's had similar views and all funnily enough most tend to read right leaning newspapers.

So to your earlier point, yes we are still living in the 1970's, just less people express racist views openly in public (apart from idiots), the type who happily cheered for Windrush and Rwanda and will happily ignore morality because "they are not the same as us and only interested in sponging off us" and ignoring all the migrant workers who add the the country, by doing the jobs nobody here wants to do.

A lot of the older people who voted for Brexit are still alive and some could easily still be here to vote in 20+ years, do you real think older peoples attitudes to different ethnicities has changed since the brexit vote?

So no I don't think they would be happy voting for a non-white, no matter how many times he has read Margert Thatcher's autobiography.

[Pann]

Wrong!

Boarder control and Brexit are still active issue's and will be till resolved (NI says hi!) you can hand wave it away all you want, but Boris's goverment hasn't finished Brexit, they have fucked it up at every turn and tried to backtrack on agreements they signed, so yep it was 6 years ago and the Tories have failed to sort it out.

Some of the reasons why many older people (but not all) voted for it was to take back control of the boarders, egged on by right ring rags "if we leave the EU we can keep them all out!" type bullshit, I know people who are proud they voted for Brexit and if pressed on the subject after getting passed the "EU Bad" media friendly sound bites, often a racist reason or justification would popped out, "we all ready have to many of them, we should send them all back!" etc and they also expressed other's in their circle's had similar views and all funnily enough most tend to read right leaning newspapers.

So to your earlier point, yes we are still living in the 1970's, just less people express racist views openly in public (apart from idiots), the type who happily cheered for Windrush and Rwanda and will happily ignore morality because "they are not the same as us and only interested in sponging off us" and ignoring all the migrant workers who add the the country, by doing the jobs nobody here wants to do.

A lot of the older people who voted for Brexit are still alive and some could easily still be here to vote in 20+ years, do you real think older peoples attitudes to different ethnicities has changed since the brexit vote?

So no I don't think they would be happy voting for a non-white, no matter how many times he has read Margert Thatcher's autobiography.

You say I'm 'Wrong!' and then type out that word salad basically accusing leavers of being racists. Weird.

Listen I can't be arsed with all this nonsense. The debate is over and I can't be bothered going over it again. But perhaps one day you'll come to the realisation that the type of nonsense you have typed out above helped cost us the referendum.

I would like to draw your attention to this tweet in response to everyone's favourite fox clubbing barrister stating the same type of ignorant opinion as you;

'Jolyon Maugham should not have posted this. I am glad he has deleted it. This kind of "imputed prejudice" (I'm not racist but I fear *they* are) was a v important barrier to minority voice & representation in the 80s & 90s. It has surely been increasingly proved wrong post-2010.'

https://twitter.com/sundersays/statu...70107962544128

Next time you feel like telling us how racist everyone else is, have a think about it.

[Iliena]

So you have nothing then.

Thanks for letting me know.

[shimerra]

Next time you feel like telling us how racist everyone else is, have a think about it.

My girlfriend actually did a lovely paper on Brexit for her law degree in her international law class. The places that voted highest for Brexit had the least amount of immigrants and yet cited immigration as their number one or one of their most important reasons. And they generally had a pretty specific type of person that totally wasn't race based but just so happened to be people that had a skin color that rhmyed with back or town and religions that rhymed with shcmislam. That's ignoring the blatantly obvious racist rhetoric and dog whistling used by both voters and organizers.


So either they're racist. Or they're stupid. Or both. And we're seeing that very fact right now as Brexit plays out. Not all Brexiters were racist. Some had idiotic and blatantly obviously stupid thoughts on how the economy would be this glorious unstoppable beast post Brexit. But blatant xenophobia was a significant driver for a significant portion of Brexiteers.

You pretending otherwise is just plain pathetic. You go ahead and appease the racists. I'll spend my efforts elsewhere.

[dribbles]

My girlfriend actually did a lovely paper on Brexit for her law degree in her international law class. The places that voted highest for Brexit had the least amount of immigrants and yet cited immigration as their number one or one of their most important reasons. And they generally had a pretty specific type of person that totally wasn't race based but just so happened to be people that had a skin color that rhmyed with back or town and religions that rhymed with shcmislam. That's ignoring the blatantly obvious racist rhetoric and dog whistling used by both voters and organizers.


So either they're racist. Or they're stupid. Or both. And we're seeing that very fact right now as Brexit plays out. Not all Brexiters were racist. Some had idiotic and blatantly obviously stupid thoughts on how the economy would be this glorious unstoppable beast post Brexit. But blatant xenophobia was a significant driver for a significant portion of Brexiteers.

You pretending otherwise is just plain pathetic. You go ahead and appease the racists. I'll spend my efforts elsewhere.

I hope that paper for the law degree included a study on the Attorney General, Suella Braverman. If many, perhaps all, in the ERG support her she is good enough for me as next PM.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/w...-b1011180.html

Hope that doesn't make me a racist.

[Pann]

I hope that paper for the law degree included a study on the Attorney General, Suella Braverman. If many, perhaps all, in the ERG support her she is good enough for me as next PM.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/w...-b1011180.html

Hope that doesn't make me a racist.

Who's your pick for leader? Based on who has put their names forward so far I think Rishi will win it, what do you reckon?

[Iliena]

I'd have believed this if the post ended there and didn't go on for a lot longer lol

He doth protest too much methinks.

[Iliena]

I agree, but also a racist.

[dribbles]

Who's your pick for leader? Based on who has put their names forward so far I think Rishi will win it, what do you reckon?

I was on team Rishi once, don't see now how he and the baggage he carries can win it. Dreadful chancellor imposing the highest level of taxation in living memory almost, ought to be in the Labour party really.

I think I would prefer Ben Wallace but does he know enough outside of defence, not sure.

In the end I would, as the Tory party must for any semblance of future unity, be guided by whoever the ERG back. Steve Baker pulling out of the contest and supporting Suella Braverman is interesting. Think you have to reserve judgment on who will win for a couple of weeks until we have only two candidates left. It is like every man and his dog is throwing their hat in the ring right now.

Impossible to say. But with 80% of the Tory party being pro-Brexit it will be the most committed Brexiteer that wins. (I hope)

[Armael]

But Brexit already happened, why would they have to be the most committed to it?