"If they don't fix problems now, then they haven't learned lessons"

[WowIsDead64]

I had good mood at NY holidays and decided to resub to level some alts on Draenor and pay some old debts - i.e. farm some mounts. It was great and fun. But then I decided to at least try to complete minimal SL's content and get all covenant gear transmogs. I arrived at Oribos and this made me thinking almost immediately. Oribos has obviously bad design, including both it's own design (it doesn't allow flying and it doesn't allow any mounts in outer circle) and requirement to constantly go through it, if you want to go to somewhere else (Org or Stormwind to buy something on AH for example). It's not fixed now and not going to be fixed within rest of SL. One can argue, that they don't want to waste resources on fixing it and that now it's too late too fix it - it should have been properly made right from the beginning. But. In order to fix problems when developing next xpack, they should realize them first. And simple fact, that Oribos isn't fixed now, makes me think, that they still assume, that it's perfectly ok. And Blizzard have long list of cases, where it was assumed by players, they they realized some problems, but they didn't. So I have fear, that this dead loop of bad design will continue in next xpack. Don't you think, that in order to show us, that they realized some problem, they should fix it immediately?

[Finear]

oribos seems fine to me, and its well designed for what it is supposed to be lore wise

[WowIsDead64]

oribos seems fine to me, and its well designed for what it is supposed to be lore wise

Well, Oribos is just example. Covenant switching was fixed to show us, that this design was initially wrong and they didn't want us to suffer from it for whole second half of xpack. So, if they don't fix Oribos, then can I assume, that they still think, that it's perfectly ok, so they will do exactly the same in next xpack?

P.S. I think whole SL was overdesigned with assumption, that Classic >> Retail, so Retail should have been much more hardcore. But Classic managed to die since that moment, so there is no actual support for this assumption. Many other systems were fixed and are going to be fixed. This clearly shows that Blizzard understand corresponding problems and aren't going to do the same mistakes in next xpack. But then why things like Oribos are still here?

[Soikona]

Well, Oribos is just example. Covenant switching was fixed to show us, that this design was initially wrong and they didn't want us to suffer from it for whole second half of xpack. So, if they don't fix Oribos, then can I assume, that they still think, that it's perfectly ok, so they will do exactly the same in next xpack?

I don’t see a problem with oribos. Asking a question “will it be fixed” is meaningless, if it’s not broken. You come up with some weird shit to complain about.

[ResentfulUK]

Seems like a rather pointless series of complaints if I'm honest. There are certainly bigger fish to fry than what's been brought up here.

[Athorha]

I guess next expac they could make the main hub more akin to private servers. A singular room with all the vendors and other flavourful created npcs standing around within arms reach.

[Finear]

Well, Oribos is just example. Covenant switching was fixed to show us, that this design was initially wrong and they didn't want us to suffer from it for whole second half of xpack. So, if they don't fix Oribos, then can I assume, that they still think, that it's perfectly ok, so they will do exactly the same in next xpack?

there is nothing wrong with oribos, there is nothing to fix and your logic is flawed anyway

even if they dont fix something in a given expansion doesnt mean they are going to do the same thing in next one, works for things that are good

[Accendor]

oribos seems fine to me, and its well designed for what it is supposed to be lore wise

The fact that you get dismounted in the outer circle if infuriating, but I agree with you: Its hardly worth mentioning, especially if you compare it with all the other problems SL has.

[kizcrew]

oribos seems fine to me, and its well designed for what it is supposed to be lore wise

Oribos is the worst city we ever got.

[Nathanyel]

I usually see the "cities" as something to pass through anyway, occasionally interact with some vendor etc.
Even when there isn't an Order Hall or Covenant Sanctum, I don't see the cities as a "home" to spent a lot of time in.
Aaaand as Horde, having a compact hub was refreshing after Dazar'Alor.

Covenant switching was fixed to show us, that this design was initially wrong

Still with this? I was changed almost a full year after launch - past expansions also had restrictions lifted in the second half. It is more likely that this was always intended for this timeframe, even with the Pandemic throwing patch cadence out of whack. This was not a pulling of the ripcord.

[Loveliest]

Loads of things they said they learned from and never do again and yet here we are. Like they said separate zones to play and level in were a mistake (like Cata with new zones spread all over). I am assuming ppl change a lot inside a company and eventually lessons learned get "lost".

[Finear]

Oribos is the worst city we ever got.

its really just fine

[Ryzeth]

Oh, look. The guy with the all-too-telling name who starts pointless, substanceless threads, is starting another one.


Can only imagine how great this one is going to go.

[klaps_05]

Theres difference between issues in aesthetics/convenience and core game systems. Oribos' design may be strange, but at worst, its an inconvenience for the sake of lore. Core game systems is where changes are needed because it affects the balance of the game. When you pick a subpar covenant, thats not just inconvenience - you will be underperforming compared to the optimal covenant. Same with SOD shards, domination sockets, etc.

And theres the end of expansion factor - Shadowlands is practically done. One more raid tier and we are moving on. Then it stands to reason not to pour any significant amount of resources on it and make a better product.

[WowIsDead64]

I would call it teaching methods. If you don't correct your mistakes - you don't learn not to do them.

[Mysterymask]

I would call it teaching methods. If you don't correct your mistakes - you don't learn not to do them.

Blizzard intern: Guys wowisdead64 on MMO Champion is saying Oribos is terrible and we need to learn from our mistakes
Most of the devs: Kay any real criticism
Intern:...umm no

[Raven]

But Oribos isnt a bad design, first its clearly going by the name its designed after ouroboros as in a sneak eating its tail and with the small size of the place why bother with flying, you would gain like 1 sec by flying to point a to point b, then runing with a ground mount.

And its not fixed by now, becouse and here it comes, its isnt a problem that needs fixing.

And going by your name i belive you dont really think its a problem either, just something you want to pretend is a problem to try and start some drama.

So i would go with the golden rule, if it's not broke don't fix it.

[kizcrew]

its really just fine

It's not even a city.

[Razorice]

Lol.
Out of all things Shadowlands you complain about Oribos? sure, it's not perfect, but it's not that bad.
At first It was a bit confusing because it's a circle, but once you get used to it, it's quite convenient.

[Okacz]

Blizzard intern: Guys wowisdead64 on MMO Champion is saying Oribos is terrible and we need to learn from our mistakes
Most of the devs: Kay any real criticism
Intern:...umm no

Sigh.

Larger companies tend to gather and analyze feedback in bulk. If there are any outside sources, like forums, the bits of player feedback gathered there are parsed into analytics databases, usually by automated systems, sometimes more meticulously by a designated people.

You know what neither automated systems not overworked analysts do not particularly enjoy? Long, drawn out posts on how a player would change Enh Shamans Mastery scaling in 20 paragraphs of text. No one has time to deal with that shit. You know what's quick and easy? Posts that just say "Oribos layout sucks my dick 2000". Has all the keywords to make a parsing program to catch and put into correct category, and the meaning behind it is immediately understandable for the unfortunate analyst that got to do this.

Wowisdead64's post is perfect feedback for any company interested on gathering feedback, especially if there are more guys like him. More power to him, even if he looks like a troll account.