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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Oh, okay. It seems that you specifically made this thread just to argue with others that "nononononon Varian (and the rest) is defo "alive" and will be back at some point". And lol @ "too important to die", like killing off important characters does not happen in works of fiction. Ye well, GL with waiting for them, because if they didn't appear in the expac focused on the afterlife, they wont appear at all in the future.
    I never even considered that there could be people, who think that Varian's soul is destroyed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    You asked for a source, and I gave you the source. So you admit you don't want to be honest.
    I told you. You quoted a sentence. I read it. It's great that you include the source. That tells me you're not just making it up. But I'm not reading an entire article, when you copy in one sentence that you apparently deem relevant.

  2. #22
    There is a difference between someone dying to fel magic, and what happened to Varian.

    If that doesn't destroy the soul, I don't know what would lmao

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Because Medivh wasn't corrupted by fel or killed by the fel.
    He had fucking Sargeras inside of him, and he wasn't corrupted by fel? He started to look like him.


  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by kizcrew View Post
    I told you. You quoted a sentence. I read it. It's great that you include the source. That tells me you're not just making it up. But I'm not reading an entire article, when you copy in one sentence that you apparently deem relevant.

    That's actually up to you to deem something relevant, since you asked for the source.


    And you have admitted yet again you chose not to read the source you asked for. Your only willing to engage dishonestly.


    And now you are purposely construing the film universe and the game universe as the same lore, which further proves your dishonesty.


    Nothing you're saying it helping you. You've proved nothing.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by kizcrew View Post
    He had fucking Sargeras inside of him, and he wasn't corrupted by fel? He started to look like him.

    That's movie lore and completely irrelevant my man.

    Dalaran wasn't floating back then either.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    There is a difference between someone dying to fel magic, and what happened to Varian.

    If that doesn't destroy the soul, I don't know what would lmao
    He destroyed his body, not his soul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    That's movie lore and completely irrelevant my man.

    Dalaran wasn't floating back then either.
    So in the movie universe, Medivh's soul dies and there can be no Warcraft 3? Is that all intentional? Or is it maybe that your made-up rules don't apply.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    That's movie lore and completely irrelevant my man.

    Dalaran wasn't floating back then either.

    I wouldn't say the film's lore itself is completely irrelevant, unless you were not a fan of the film.


    But used as a point of argument in regards to the main game's lore, yes, I agree.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    That's actually up to you to deem something relevant
    No, you are the one that deemed it relevant by copying it and posting it.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by kizcrew View Post
    So in the movie universe, Medivh's soul dies and there can be no Warcraft 3? Is that all intentional? Or is it maybe that your made-up rules don't apply.

    You are making absolutely no sense, as the film universe and Warcraft 3 are not connected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kizcrew View Post
    No, you are the one that deemed it relevant by copying it and posting it.

    You have no point, still.


    Goodbye burner.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by kizcrew View Post
    So in the movie universe, Medivh's soul dies and there can be no Warcraft 3? Is that all intentional? Or is it maybe that your made-up rules don't apply.
    Yes, because there wont be W3 when we wont even have W2. You are being obtuse at this point pal. Varian is not coming back. Deal with it. Or don't. I don't really care.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    You are making absolutely no sense, as the film universe and Warcraft 3 are not connected.
    That's the question. How would the story progress from the Warcraft movie? They tried to set up Thrall's story in the movie, so clearly they would've continued on to the events of Warcraft 2, possibly Lord of the Clans, and then Warcraft 3. But without Medivh, how would Warcraft 3 even look like?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Yes, because there wont be W3 when we wont even have W2. You are being obtuse at this point pal. Varian is not coming back. Deal with it. Or don't. I don't really care.
    They could jump straight from Warcraft 1 to Warcraft 3 if they wanted to.

  12. #32
    The less old lore characters touched by the Shadowlands and its writing the better.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by kizcrew View Post
    He had fucking Sargeras inside of him, and he wasn't corrupted by fel? He started to look like him.

    Yup, I rest my case. You are confusing movie and game lore. Nothing to see here then, this thread is over.

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  14. #34
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    While we didn’t see those specific 3 you mentioned, for which there have been given pretty hefty examples as to why, we’ve still seen more than a few roaming around. Ysera and Admiral Taylor being two of them. Amber Kearnen, Old Blanchy, Huln Highmountain, Vashj, Kael, Garrosh, Draka, Mal’ganis, Kel’Thuzad. There are probably some I’ve missed and some yet to come

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kizcrew View Post
    They could jump straight from Warcraft 1 to Warcraft 3 if they wanted to.
    And they can also ignore established lore for the movies.. Something they've already done. Movie canon isn't the same as game canon

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Yup, I rest my case. You are confusing movie and game lore. Nothing to see here then, this thread is over.
    In the game lore, he got corrupted by Sargeras in exactly the same way. The movie just offers a visual representation, that makes his corruption obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    And they can also ignore established lore for the movies..
    Then they can also ignore established lore on what happens with a person's soul when killed by fel magic, if they decide at any given point they want to use Varian as a character.
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    Movie canon isn't the same as game canon
    Medivh is corrupted by Sargeras in both the movie and the games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    While we didn’t see those specific 3 you mentioned, for which there have been given pretty hefty examples as to why, we’ve still seen more than a few roaming around. Ysera and Admiral Taylor being two of them. Amber Kearnen, Old Blanchy, Huln Highmountain, Vashj, Kael, Garrosh, Draka, Mal’ganis, Kel’Thuzad. There are probably some I’ve missed and some yet to come
    Amber Kearnen? I must have missed her. Where was she?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Fel alters and destroys souls. That's just how it is. Varian is gone and done.
    Except the new Shadowlands lore is that fel alters & destroys anima. But the principle is the same, effectively the same thing that happened to Varian happened to Garrosh. Their *anima* was destroyed utterly. But from all I've absorbed of this lore regarding essences, souls, etc; the soul really is immortal, it can't be destroyed: But it is completely invisible & intageable without anima: You can't retrieve or identify a soul if it's completely drained of anima, which is what the fel magic did to Varian. They refer to the part of the soul you can see as "Essence" Like, your shadowlands body is the build-up of anima that flows to your soul. Your essence is the part of the soul you can actually see in the Shadowlands.

    TLDR Varian & Garrosh's essence was obliterated, making it impossible to ever resurrect them, but their souls returned to the twisting nether which is what is supposed to happen to souls anyway, before the Shadowlands were created.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Except the new Shadowlands lore is that fel alters & destroys anima. But the principle is the same, effectively the same thing that happened to Varian happened to Garrosh. Their *anima* was destroyed utterly. But from all I've absorbed of this lore regarding essences, souls, etc; the soul really is immortal, it can't be destroyed: But it is completely invisible & intageable without anima: You can't retrieve or identify a soul if it's completely drained of anima, which is what the fel magic did to Varian. They refer to the part of the soul you can see as "Essence" Like, your shadowlands body is the build-up of anima that flows to your soul. Your essence is the part of the soul you can actually see in the Shadowlands.

    TLDR Varian & Garrosh's essence was obliterated, making it impossible to ever resurrect them, but their souls returned to the twisting nether which is what is supposed to happen to souls anyway, before the Shadowlands were created.
    Where did it say that Varian was completely drained of Anima, or that his soul was drained? Gul'dan made his body glow green and explode. But that wasn't his soul. There was nothing said about what happened to his soul.

    Garrosh was drained of Anima, when he already didn't have a body anymore. His soul was all that was left. And it's not even clear how he died. He clashed with Dormazain and exploded. I think his death was more meant to be poetic than to be taken literally. Like he died, the way he lived. In a blaze of fire.

    And Varian's death was depicted the way it was mainly, because it was supposed to look cool. And so we could have that moment of poetic justice when Illidan did the same to Gul'dan.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Except the new Shadowlands lore is that fel alters & destroys anima. But the principle is the same, effectively the same thing that happened to Varian happened to Garrosh. Their *anima* was destroyed utterly. But from all I've absorbed of this lore regarding essences, souls, etc; the soul really is immortal, it can't be destroyed: But it is completely invisible & intageable without anima: You can't retrieve or identify a soul if it's completely drained of anima, which is what the fel magic did to Varian. They refer to the part of the soul you can see as "Essence" Like, your shadowlands body is the build-up of anima that flows to your soul. Your essence is the part of the soul you can actually see in the Shadowlands.

    TLDR Varian & Garrosh's essence was obliterated, making it impossible to ever resurrect them, but their souls returned to the twisting nether which is what is supposed to happen to souls anyway, before the Shadowlands were created.
    Garrosh was in Shadowlands though, in Torghast even. He just chose to go "poof".

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    Quote Originally Posted by kizcrew View Post
    In the game lore, he got corrupted by Sargeras in exactly the same way. The movie just offers a visual representation, that makes his corruption obvious.

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    Then they can also ignore established lore on what happens with a person's soul when killed by fel magic, if they decide at any given point they want to use Varian as a character.

    Medivh is corrupted by Sargeras in both the movie and the games.

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    Amber Kearnen? I must have missed her. Where was she?
    Wrong. He was possessed by Sargeras in the game lore. In the movie, who the fuck actually knows what had happened to him, aside from him clearly drinking from the fel kool aid.


    Oh and Amber? https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Amb...en#Shadowlands

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  20. #40
    Varian can’t be there, Saurfang was notoriously unpopular among Horde players in BFA and Bwonsamdi storyline isn’t important enough to see Rastakhan.

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