Was Mythic + a bad idea ?

[thunderdragon2]

But you already can ignore the timer. Just sign up for a key or run your own with the description "completion" or "weekly 15" or "for vault". Only 1 of 5 players actually has to level their key, no reason for you to be that one. And if you don't have a 15 key yourself just sign up for a 16 completion and you get one in the vault.



Sockets were king.

yes and no while its possible ppl dont sign up for that sadly ive tried (unless its a tuesday (in ee) or monday (in the us) try try and get their lowbie alts boosted anyway you slice it the community is divided on this so there will more than likly be a change 1 way or another alt least im giving ideas

[Kralljin]

lore/immersion, same shit #1

They're not.

For example, Valheim is a very immersive game, but only has tidbits of lore to it.

Simply because it's not relevant to your experience, doesn't mean they're the same.
Saying stuff like that doesn't have any value to it other than making you look ignorant.

#2, doing a keystone is no less immersion breaking than spam running a dungeon.

I'm not being rewarded for going extra fast in literally every dungeon, nor does it randomnly throws Affixes onto every mob despite those mobs clearly not having those abilities.
Disregarding that mobs don't magically become stronger every new patch or i have to clear a given dungeon throughout the enterity of the expansion because the loot in there *somehow* got better.

[Kehego]

They're not.

For example, Valheim is a very immersive game, but only has tidbits of lore to it.

Simply because it's not relevant to your experience, doesn't mean they're the same.
Saying stuff like that doesn't have any value to it other than making you look ignorant.

I'm not being rewarded for going extra fast in literally every dungeon, nor does it randomnly throws Affixes onto every mob despite those mobs clearly not having those abilities.
Disregarding that mobs don't magically become stronger every new patch or i have to clear a given dungeon throughout the enterity of the expansion because the loot in there *somehow* got better.

yeah but killing the same orc 15 times until he drops the particular shiny thing you want somehow makes sense. Gotcha. That's surely immersive.

its all the same dude, its a video game. hell, affixes are *more* lore relevant now with the +10 seasonal affixes where you have to deal with a threat from the current baddie-at-large.



anyway the point is that immersion is a mcguffin that you vanilla thumpers use as a useful metric, when in reality it means abso-fucking-lutely nothing.



also, bringing up valheim doesn't do anything for your argument. Not everyone has that neurodivergent impulse to dig holes all day and pretend to be a viking. And if you do, WoW is DEF the wrong game for you, because this is no sandbox, this is a theme park.

[ryanmahaffe]

Absolutely not.
Look at the mmo that did M+ before WoW.

Gw2s fractals system is single handedly keeping the pve scene in that game alive because even without the devs focusing on it, the system itself is evergreen and thus players keep doing it. Wow yoinking that feature for Legionw as one of the best decisions they made. They need to just expand it further because honestly without M+ shadowlands would be completely deserted.

[zysis]

The only problem I have with M+ and I'm sure many would agree ; that it's tied to a specific dungeon. It would be much better if your key was just the + number and you could run any that you chose to do. Other than that, all I do is mythic. No LFR, no Raids, nothing. I have 11 hungry toons and it's nice to be able to run them when I feel like it. Raiding is good for some, but I've spent too many years dealing with the frustration of raids.

[cuafpr]

in the way was done yes ... it added another "required" thing for people that want to raid. It should have been an alternate path for gear progression,or not relied on gear and only rankings/cosmetics for rewards. Early on it further entrenched the rush rush mentality of the game, encouraging "best path" or you suck mentality.

[Kehego]

in the way was done yes ... it added another "required" thing for people that want to raid. It should have been an alternate path for gear progression,or not relied on gear and only rankings/cosmetics for rewards. Early on it further entrenched the rush rush mentality of the game, encouraging "best path" or you suck mentality.

that's a community issue very easily rectified by just doing your own key

[Kralljin]

its all the same dude, its a video game. hell, affixes are *more* lore relevant now with the +10 seasonal affixes where you have to deal with a threat from the current baddie-at-large.

Ah yes, Bwonsamdi summoning a bunch of undead to kill Horde players seems very lore consistent, even when they're actually in a place help out Zandalari Trolls.
Or G'huun infesting some pirates, which all of them seemingly have no issue with.
Or N'zoth putting up a bunch of obelisks in Mechagon, a place run by people that have serious beef with the Old Gods.

also, bringing up valheim doesn't do anything for your argument. Not everyone has that neurodivergent impulse to dig holes all day and pretend to be a viking.

I think it does something, it further shows your ignorance because i only raised Valheim as an example to point out the difference between Immersion and Lore.
This wasn't about the gameplay of Valheim in any fashion.

And if you do, WoW is DEF the wrong game for you, because this is no sandbox, this is a theme park.

I think WoW used to be the right game for me, but then it slowly changed over the years.

Unless you can bring up some better arguments, i'm not going to continue replying to you, because you have a serious issues with grasping rather basic shit.

[Kehego]

Ah yes, Bwonsamdi summoning a bunch of undead to kill Horde players seems very immersive, when they're actually in a place help out Zandalari Trolls.
Or G'huun infesting some pirates, which all of them seemingly have no issue with.
Or N'zoth putting up a bunch of obelisks in Mechagon, a place run by people that have serious beef with the Old Gods.

I think it does something, it further shows your ignorance because i only raised Valheim as an example to point out the difference between Immersion and Lore.
This wasn't about the gameplay of Valheim in any fashion.

I think WoW used to be the right game for me, but then it slowly changed over the years.

Unless you can bring up some better arguments, i'm not going to bother replying to you, because you have a serious issues with grasping rather basic shit.

Again, going back to the arbitrary shit that you find acceptable and unacceptable.
WoW has never been immersive like that. It always put gameplay first. That's it, the end. If gameplay evolves, so be it.

Valheim doesn't really have lore, lol. It's minecraft with better graphics... where you dig holes and pretend to be a viking. Dassit. has nothing to do with the gameplay, has everything to do with valheim being a nordic themed lego set.

Immersion has to do with how well *you* get into something, it sure as fuck isn't quantifiable, which is what you're trying to do to push your stupid little argument forward.

WoW has always broken lore for the sake of gameplay. Whether or not you get immersed is a personal thing. Can you get immersed pushing keys? Why the fuck not? Immersion isn't dependent on the lore and how much you wanna suck arthas' dick or whatever, but whatever personal attachment you have with the content that you're doing; whatever draws you in. Both lore *and* good gameplay are immersive.

But anyway, I'm glad you figured out that wow isn't the game for you. Maybe you'd step away from being wrong on the forums for a bit.

and just to drive the point home, you literally made zero points bringing up valheim, because any game can be immersive. Immersion is about you as the player being drawn into the world, either by the gameplay, systems, or lore. Immersion isn't a monolith; you can be immersed in DoTA, the same way you can be immersed in retro final fantasy.

[crusadernero]

in the way was done yes ... it added another "required" thing for people that want to raid. It should have been an alternate path for gear progression,or not relied on gear and only rankings/cosmetics for rewards. Early on it further entrenched the rush rush mentality of the game, encouraging "best path" or you suck mentality.

Depends on what level you are raiding on. If you are doing mythic, then yes you probably need to run alot of m+. If you do normal or HC? Not so much. LFR? Never, just reach ilevel req for queue.

Its more of a community issue. People have this belief that they gotta min/max even normal/Hc raids in order to even bother doing it were it gets to the point ppl overgear HC raids.

If your guild does normal/HC raiding theres a decent chance you will clear the content before new patch comes out without having majority of the guild spamming m+ day in day out. Couple of runs a week, sure. But you dont really need to.

Personally, m+ has grown on me. I do it when I want and most of the time im using my own key, making my own grps. I cant and wont commit to a raid schedule and pugging raids that are successfull is a total shitshow, so gearing up in m+ is quite allright.

That said - I would love if Blizzard streamlined the game ALOT more for alts were you only need to level to max then start gearing. as it is now, theres much more annoying things than m+ you gotta do to stay relevant.

Also - i'd like Blizzard to keep developing m+ as a feature.

[Crushima]

Mythic + was a very bad idea. It turned the game into Diablo3 style 24/7 grind fest, rewarding no-lifers and those who can play 12 hours a day to chase bis items.

The game was far more popular/enjoyable for most, when it was more simple with just a weekly raid lock for the best gear. This forced players to be in meaningful guilds, where you'd need to play with 25/40 players to get the best gear rewards, and amazing tier sets.

[T-34]

The first of Blizzard's core values is:

Gameplay First!

[Tradu]

It has flaws, but overall it's good for the game. The biggest flaw for me is that the loot stays the same for the entire expansion, which makes gearing really stale (can't wait to farm IQD/Ruby a 3rd season in a row)

[Dejiko]

Mythic+ was and is amazing as a concept.
Personally i just really dislike the timer.

[khazlol]

Mythic + was a very bad idea. It turned the game into Diablo3 style 24/7 grind fest, rewarding no-lifers and those who can play 12 hours a day to chase bis items.

The game was far more popular/enjoyable for most, when it was more simple with just a weekly raid lock for the best gear. This forced players to be in meaningful guilds, where you'd need to play with 25/40 players to get the best gear rewards, and amazing tier sets.

they already fix'd that by nerfing m+ loot to heroic raid ilevel and removing titanforging

[crusadernero]

It has flaws, but overall it's good for the game. The biggest flaw for me is that the loot stays the same for the entire expansion, which makes gearing really stale (can't wait to farm IQD/Ruby a 3rd season in a row)

Yes! This is quite boring, but I have no idea how they can get around it tbh.

[thunderdragon2]

Yes! This is quite boring, but I have no idea how they can get around it tbh.

only ways i can think of is nerfing them or increasing the drop rate of them this includes the scale for tanks

[crusadernero]

only ways i can think of is nerfing them or increasing the drop rate of them this includes the scale for tanks

Would be cool if they added new dungeons to each new raid they release, so we at the very least get more dungeons to rotate between. It doesnt need to be much. Just reuse same assets as from raid(looks and all that) and create some bosses that are "minions" for the raid bosses. Each bossfight can even have features from the raid, but on a smaller scale.

I dunno. Maybe its a big ask.

[Relapses]

Yes! This is quite boring, but I have no idea how they can get around it tbh.

Allow trinkets and weapons obtained in M+ automatically update to their base level M0 version at the beginning of every new season and allow them to be upgraded via VP accordingly.

They won't do this but a man can dream.

[Accendor]

The problem is the timer. I understand why it is there, I just think it's not a design that fits WoW. Instead the dungeon should become much harder with each +1.