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  1. #1

    Was Mythic + a bad idea ?

    I'm sure there have been other threads adressing this issue but I wanted to pose a question.

    Was Mythic + a game system mistake ?

    My reasoning behind this is simple. As WoW has grown older and the gaming climate has been changed with many outside systems like Discord, etc, taking over player to player communication, the game has become less social over time.

    The mythic plus system basically rewards groups that stay together longer to get as many runs done as possible to maximize rewards, etc.

    However, to stay together longer you have to have a group comprised of members who know their role and are willing to stay and work with others for an extended time period.

    That being said WoW has grown to encourage faster, low-commitment type players who just want to get in and get the run over with and get out as fast as possible. Back in the days of Wrath it wasn't uncommon for a good group of even random players to run several Heroics together. Nowadays that's an anomaly.

    So looking back was the Mythic + system, which only really caters to the minority of players, and is also the focus of many toxic behaviors an ill conceived plan?

  2. #2
    It was the best addition this game ever had. It literally revived World of Warcraft.
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    It was the best addition this game ever had. It literally revived World of Warcraft.
    Nothing more needs to be said.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Nothing more needs to be said.
    Let's wrap it up guys!

    Hope things are well.
    - Everything that lives is designed to end. We are perpetually trapped in a never ending spiral of life and death. Is this a curse? Or some kind of punishment? I often think about the god who blessed us with this cryptic puzzle… and wonder if we’ll ever get the chance to kill him.

  5. #5
    No and yes but mostly no...

    Ideally i feel mythic + should of acted as CM rather then an upgrade path but it isn't terribly implemented.

  6. #6
    Mythic+ was the only reason I even played through legion, bfa and played the start of shadowlands. Raiding sucks

  7. #7
    M+ is fantastic.

    Could it do with some improvements here and there? Sure. But as a concept, it's great, and very much needed in the game.

  8. #8
    Absolute not.


    It was one of the best ideas added. Definitely in the top 3.


    The mythic plus system basically rewards groups that stay together longer to get as many runs done as possible to maximize rewards, etc.

    Is this an implication that only people who play together make M+ work? Because this is not true. 5 good players can literally meet for the very first time and succeed at M+. Over and over again, in fact. You don't need to be a part of a sustained group of the same 3 - 5 players at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Re-reading your post, it's clear what your stance on M+ is. Which is fine, btw, everybody is entitled to their opinions. I don't agree with you but I respect your stance.


    But you bring up issues with the game as a whole (and how the game's atmosphere as changed) and try to imply M+ is the sole reason for this and/or exacerbated the game's change, which in both cases is false.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Sinndra's Avatar
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    i wish that mythic plus wasnt based solely around being timed. i dont wish that the timed concept was removed necessarily, but that the option for untimed exist as well. the timed aspect just ruins M+ for me. so, i dont do them.
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    I do realize that this is an internet forum full of morons, however in real life, no one questions me, people look to me for the answer, look up to me, trust me. To have dipshits on a video game forum question me, is insulting.

  10. #10
    No, it's the one thing that keeps me and a ton of other people playing the game as an endgame activity over the antiquated raiding model.
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  11. #11
    The highest participation endgame content, the game would have been in even more dire straights without it. It's one of few things at this point that no other MMO has.
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  12. #12
    The only problem with Mythic + is the same problem thats been in wow since EverQuest


    Pugs suck

  13. #13
    The system is fine the gear is not. It should be about the challenge not the gear.

  14. #14
    As WoW has grown older and the gaming climate has been changed with many outside systems like Discord, etc, taking over player to player communication, the game has become less social over time.
    That makes no real sense claiming the game's social aspect is dead because they went to more convenient means which does not result in them being logged into the game 24/7. If anything, Discord made it a whole lot easier for people to communicate, socialize, plan, talk and send information without needing to be tied to a computer. Whether it be absent or IRL issues before raid, finding a team, plotting when to get on or emergency calling your friend who's playing another mmo to get on now and tank/heal/DPS a 17+ key before the week ends.
    The game's social circle has been more or less the same. We just moved to more convenient measures.

    The mythic plus system basically rewards groups that stay together longer to get as many runs done as possible to maximize rewards, etc.

    However, to stay together longer you have to have a group comprised of members who know their role and are willing to stay and work with others for an extended time period.
    Uhh...Yeah? That's the point of doing any content. As far back as Strath dead runs for reputation or the tribute runs in Dire Maul you needed people who knew the paths, pulls and more to get it done efficiently. It rewards people who stick together because it makes sense. Sure some may leave mid run or something and it sucks but that's just to ensure people don't try to say clear the place super fast on a stacked group, then one guy jumps out to bring someone to carry for easy clears when on the last boss.
    It's endgame content that rewards you for your time playing the game.

    That being said WoW has grown to encourage faster, low-commitment type players who just want to get in and get the run over with and get out as fast as possible. Back in the days of Wrath it wasn't uncommon for a good group of even random players to run several Heroics together. Nowadays that's an anomaly.
    Wrong. Same thing has been a thing even back in WOTLK and even BC. High level players would pick and choose heroics to run with certain people for speed hence the Gearscore/Achievement linking fiasco. No one wants to spend 10+ or more minutes having to explain to the new guy how certain fights on heroic work or certain easy raids. Don't also forget the infamous Shattered Halls speedruns and doing places like Botanica or Arcatraz, even the Slave Pens were not a joke early on. So many people gravitate to getting it done ASAP.
    Wow was always this and Mythic+ did nothing to make it worse. It catered to those exact people while rewarding those who have set teams to push for even greater ilevel heights back in Legion and then some.

    So looking back was the Mythic + system, which only really caters to the minority of players, and is also the focus of many toxic behaviors an ill conceived plan?
    No. Mythic+ SAVED dungeons. People do not remember many dungeons outside of the 1-3 times they run it for gear at the start of an expansion usually and late in an expansion life those dungeons either become something you do for sake of getting it over with or never bothering at all because it's rewards do not matter. (Minus MOP and WOD with Challenge Modes)
    Without the system for Mythic+ we would probably see no Mega Dungeons or half the dungeons we do now.
    But as others said and I share too, The Mythic+ reward system should of never been gear on par with mythic raiding or heroic raiding. It should of remained as Challenge Mode level rewards of a title for bronze, Mount for Silver and unique Xmog for Gold. Giving it the gearing ilevel of Mythic Raid did hamstring Mythic Raiding for a while and in some cases, beat Mythic Raid Gear if you got those old Titanforge pieces from previous expansions (BFA moreso)

    So no, Not a bad idea.

  15. #15
    I love it. And I mostly PuG it, too. Yeah, you have the occasional fail group, but mostly it's good. I did a +10 or higher on every class this week- most of them timed, and not a single group fell apart. Sometimes on really nasty affix weeks I'll have 2-3 groups that fall apart (to 12 that at least finish; my alts don't care quite as much about timing).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by italian504 View Post
    No. Mythic+ SAVED dungeons. People do not remember many dungeons outside of the 1-3 times they run it for gear at the start of an expansion usually and late in an expansion life those dungeons either become something you do for sake of getting it over with or never bothering at all because it's rewards do not matter.
    100% this. Dungeons have gone from "something you do on your way up to raiding and then ignore" to "meaningful content for a whole expansion." I think that's great.

    Quote Originally Posted by italian504 View Post
    The Mythic+ reward system should of never been gear on par with mythic raiding or heroic raiding. It should of remained as Challenge Mode level rewards of a title for bronze, Mount for Silver and unique Xmog for Gold.
    Disagree on this one. I love that I can slowly gear up my alt army in a reasonable amount of time played per week.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  16. #16
    Can't say it's a bad idea. Even tho I HATE it.
    I did all 20s in time on my main (ret) and that's it for me.


    It's "ok" system. But it should have some tweaks here and there.

    Like, I would remove the RNG factor of keys generation.

    Aka = you wouldn't have to worry what key you gonna get once you finish your dungeon- you may join ANY dungeon at ANY difficulty you wish.

    Gear would be locked to heroic ilvl. And weekly rng-slot-machine known as m+ chest/vault would be no more.

    Instead- we would get justice/valor points vendors. You get justice points for completing heroic dungeons/raids. And you get valor points for completing m+ dungeons/mythic raids. And then you can choose what item(s) you want to buy.

  17. #17
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    It was the best addition this game ever had. It literally revived World of Warcraft.
    Second answer pretty much nailed the thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zodiark View Post
    I'm sure there have been other threads adressing this issue but I wanted to pose a question.

    Was Mythic + a game system mistake ?

    My reasoning behind this is simple. As WoW has grown older and the gaming climate has been changed with many outside systems like Discord, etc, taking over player to player communication, the game has become less social over time.

    The mythic plus system basically rewards groups that stay together longer to get as many runs done as possible to maximize rewards, etc.

    However, to stay together longer you have to have a group comprised of members who know their role and are willing to stay and work with others for an extended time period.

    That being said WoW has grown to encourage faster, low-commitment type players who just want to get in and get the run over with and get out as fast as possible. Back in the days of Wrath it wasn't uncommon for a good group of even random players to run several Heroics together. Nowadays that's an anomaly.

    So looking back was the Mythic + system, which only really caters to the minority of players, and is also the focus of many toxic behaviors an ill conceived plan?
    M+ was an amazing idea, however i PERSONALLY dont like the implementation, in particular the timer. I will explain why, but, remember it is just my opinion, and is not me saying the system is bad, just what i personally dont like about it.

    As many of you im sure, i have played since early vanilla. I remember "tough" dungeons over the early years, but usually it was just us being fucking terrible. What i was hoping for, was a system with a much smaller number of difficulties above heroic - for arguments sake, 5. One affix per level, for a total of 5 modifiers at max difficulty. I also wanted the increase in difficulty to be far more noticeable on the bosses, and would have loved to see CC be useful outside of PVP again.

    I dont enjoy the "gogogogogo" mentality that M+ encourages, and is actually based around. But i love the IDEA of scaled pve dungeons that encourage strong communication and teamplay.

    For me, it was a 'close but no cigar' situation, but to be clear one last time, i know a lot of people love the current iteration of M+, and would hate it if the motivation to go as fast as possible was removed or reduced dramatically.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    There might be some tiny design spaces left that a new class could utilize, But I think overall, we might have truly reached a saturation point with the classes.
    - and just like that, the Tinker was gone.
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    i have several gay friends at work, and i know at least 6 other gay people

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    It was the best addition this game ever had. It literally revived World of Warcraft.
    As usual, this MMOC thread was answered accurately and in full on the first page (and indeed in the very first reply this time), but the "debate" will rage on for another 5+ pages despite nothing more needing to be said.

  20. #20
    Bad idea? It's like one of the few of the really good ideas in last "few" years.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

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