Was Mythic + a bad idea ?

[Veggie50]

Sorry, but you can't suggest that people should take responsibility for their in-game experience in their own hands!
It is the responsibility and duty of other players to play like I WANT and to invite ME when I WANT.
And I can play just like I WANT and all other players should accept and encourage me in how I PLAY.

I love how in English “I” is always capitalized. It looks nice in regular sentences, but when you want to emphasize it, it does miss something doesn’t it? Because while your paragraph clearly intends to emphasize “I”, it looks like you’re just emphasizing the second word, changing the reading entirely.

Just a tangent on something that tickles me, carry on ^^

[chiddie]

Quite simply: utility. For instance, let's take a look at the toolset a Monk can bring to say Mists... It's common tactic to skip the 3rd/4th pack (2x Harvesters, 1x Soulcleaver, 1x Boughbreaker) by any number of tools (i.e. Stealth, certain HARD CC, or soft CC with a combat drop). Monks can paralysis then Ring of Peace the Harvester away allowing the group to walk by without any issues (or using invis pots).

Bears can't bring that specific utility. Sure they could solo stealth by but that does very little for the rest of the party. However, that's not to say that druids don't have their own utility (like Brez) that Monks can't offer.

But even then, let's go back to your example of Halls. The issue at hand of your monk's survivability against those casters is also a case against your fellow DPS (and potentially healer) teammates. Why aren't they interrupting? That's poor gameplay by them (especially at high keys) if the rest of the party thinks they can just tunnel DPS instead of handling trash mechanics.

Problem is when poor gameplay by others punishes some classes/specs only. There would be no problem if a poor interrupt management in a pull means tank death, BUT it HAS to mean tank death regardless the tank class. If some classes can handle the poor management by design, they have an advantage that’s impossible to ignore, especially in pugs.

That’s what he wanted to say, I think.

[Alroxas]

And yeah, 90% of mists groups have someone who can do that so it's not super helpful that monks can.

Oh wait so now that the other party members can contribute to a skip then it's a non-issue but when the party members don't interrupt those spell casters then it's the fault of the tank?

Nearly all classes/specs can interrupt/disrupt enemy spell casts so it shouldn't be an issue for a monk to pull all those spellcasters...

[Miffinat0r]

As usual, this MMOC thread was answered accurately and in full on the first page (and indeed in the very first reply this time), but the "debate" will rage on for another 5+ pages despite nothing more needing to be said.

There's nothing "factual" about anything said. It's differing opinions.

M+ as a concept is good.

The key system is not good.

[agentsi]

I'm sure there have been other threads adressing this issue but I wanted to pose a question.

Was Mythic + a game system mistake ?

My reasoning behind this is simple. As WoW has grown older and the gaming climate has been changed with many outside systems like Discord, etc, taking over player to player communication, the game has become less social over time.

The mythic plus system basically rewards groups that stay together longer to get as many runs done as possible to maximize rewards, etc.

However, to stay together longer you have to have a group comprised of members who know their role and are willing to stay and work with others for an extended time period.

That being said WoW has grown to encourage faster, low-commitment type players who just want to get in and get the run over with and get out as fast as possible. Back in the days of Wrath it wasn't uncommon for a good group of even random players to run several Heroics together. Nowadays that's an anomaly.

So looking back was the Mythic + system, which only really caters to the minority of players, and is also the focus of many toxic behaviors an ill conceived plan?

Imagine being so completely disconnected from the entire player base, that you have this kind of opinion. lol

More folks do M+ than raid, or PvP, combined. But yes, M+ was a bad idea. LOL ahh. At least there are stupid ass people on these forums to make me laugh.

[Coniferous]

Problem is when poor gameplay by others punishes some classes/specs only. There would be no problem if a poor interrupt management in a pull means tank death, BUT it HAS to mean tank death regardless the tank class. If some classes can handle the poor management by design, they have an advantage that’s impossible to ignore, especially in pugs.

That’s what he wanted to say, I think.

Yes - definitely!

- - - Updated - - -

Oh wait so now that the other party members can contribute to a skip then it's a non-issue but when the party members don't interrupt those spell casters then it's the fault of the tank?

Nearly all classes/specs can interrupt/disrupt enemy spell casts so it shouldn't be an issue for a monk to pull all those spellcasters...

Very, very different cases. For the skip you need one person who can do it, and if they don’t know how you can teach them.

Interrupts you have multiple dps coordinating on something that has to be done within a two second timeframe. One of those is obviously much easier than the other.

And here’s the thing - as a pug tank who gets lit up by spellcasters where other pug tanks survive because their class is better, I’m going to get blamed by the healer for dying so fast. No one will even know that the interrupts were the problem.

[Zodiark]

Imagine being so completely disconnected from the entire player base, that you have this kind of opinion. lol

More folks do M+ than raid, or PvP, combined. But yes, M+ was a bad idea. LOL ahh. At least there are stupid ass people on these forums to make me laugh.

More people TRY to do M+ or use it to get BOOSTED. Get rid of Boosting altogether and see how many people run M+.

As far as being disconnected from the player base, I watch tons of Videos about players upset at the direction of WoW, how the token and boosting have ruined the game by making it a toxic mess where advancing your character is more about how much you are willing to shell out rather than people actively playing the game for enjoyment and fun, running content to organically get better gear. I also see this in countless forums. But you keep on keeping on believing that M+ is the best thing since sliced bread.

[SinR]

M+ is not a bad thing.

the community around it is.

[Gestopft]

More people TRY to do M+ or use it to get BOOSTED. Get rid of Boosting altogether and see how many people run M+.

Presumably all the people doing the boosting would still be doing it...and everybody else that likes it too.

As far as being disconnected from the player base, I watch tons of Videos about players upset at the direction of WoW...

People who just simply enjoy the game don't tend to make videos about it.

[ellieg]

More people TRY to do M+ or use it to get BOOSTED. Get rid of Boosting altogether and see how many people run M+.

As far as being disconnected from the player base, I watch tons of Videos about players upset at the direction of WoW, how the token and boosting have ruined the game by making it a toxic mess where advancing your character is more about how much you are willing to shell out rather than people actively playing the game for enjoyment and fun, running content to organically get better gear. I also see this in countless forums. But you keep on keeping on believing that M+ is the best thing since sliced bread.

"I read things online". Lmao. No shit ppl on forums and vids are upset. Most of the ones that enjoy it are online playing the game. Videos and forums aren't representative

[NineSpine]

"I read things online". Lmao. No shit ppl on forums and vids are upset. Most of the ones that enjoy it are online playing the game. Videos and forums aren't representative

We can look up the numbers and see the game is having retention issues.

[ellieg]

We can look up the numbers and see the game is having retention issues.

What does that have to do with what I said?

[NineSpine]

What does that have to do with what I said?

It sounded like you were arguing that we can ignore vocal criticism because of the theory that the people who are happy aren't loud. If you want to argue that the vocal criticisms should still be ignored, you have to provide a substantiation that the vocal criticisms are totally disconnected from the criticisms of the silent quitters.

[ellieg]

It sounded like you were arguing that we can ignore vocal criticism because of the theory that the people who are happy aren't loud. If you want to argue that the vocal criticisms should still be ignored, you have to provide a substantiation that the vocal criticisms are totally disconnected from the criticisms of the silent quitters.

Lol stop talking like a dweeb. I don't have to do shit. Im saying trying to prove youre "connected to the playerbase" because you "watch videos" is a retarded stance to take lmao

[NineSpine]

Lol stop talking like a dweeb. I don't have to do shit. Im saying trying to prove youre "connected to the playerbase" because you "watch videos" is a retarded stance to take lmao

I didn't take that stance. I criticized your rationale for dismissing vocal criticism.

But now I see I'm talking to a 13 year old that thinks they are super clever, so please just carry on. You've properly informed me of how seriously to take you.

[ellieg]

I didn't take that stance. I criticized your rationale for dismissing vocal criticism.

But now I see I'm talking to a 13 year old that thinks they are super clever, so please just carry on. You've properly informed me of how seriously to take you.

You replied to a quote that wasn't quoting you, with bullshit that didn't apply. Please don't take me at all and in the future, don't reply lol

[NineSpine]

You replied to a quote that wasn't quoting you, with bullshit that didn't apply. Please don't take me at all and in the future, don't reply lol

Have you considered that if criticism gets you this tilted and incoherent, a forum might not be the best place for you?

[ellieg]

Have you considered that if criticism gets you this tilted and incoherent, a forum might not be the best place for you?

Back at it again replying to my posts with things that have nothing to do with it. Im gonna consider this spamming from now on lol

[NineSpine]

Back at it again replying to my posts with things that have nothing to do with it. Im gonna consider this spamming from now on lol

Cool, dismissing vocal criticism is still stupid.

[Fenrys]

Cool, dismissing vocal criticism is still stupid.

It does really depend. Almost every decision ever made in WoW has been vocally criticised, because we WoW players are a cantankerous lot who hate change. Criticism from some sources means a lot more than general criticism from the userbase. I think the fastest way to finally kill WoW would probably be to go to r/wow and implement everyone of their suggestions