Microsoft and the return of MicroTransactions

[MoanaLisa]

What power can you buy off of the store?

If you mean the token which gives you in-game currency wouldn't that mean that FF is also selling power on their store since the story skip comes with items which can be vendored for in-game currency?

The hypocrisy here is that Blizzard is terrible for providing the token. But hardly anyone mentions that nearly every major MMO in existence has ways to buy gold or gems or game store currencies for cash and ways to convert in-game gold to MTX currencies. It's not a Blizzard thing any longer. It's just about all games in the genre and has been for a long time. If anything, Blizzard was late to the party. Pretty much the exact same system existed in EVE online for years and Blizzard even mentioned when they started the token system that it was modeled on EVE's system.

Add to that the many people who want to have a say in how people spend their money while relatively giving guilds or individual selling carries/assistance a pass for doing so makes hypocritical nonsense of most of the verbiage about how terrible Blizzard is. The fact is Blizzard has resisted selling power directly in the form of gear through their store. You can reach the very highest reaches of the game without resorting to anything other than patience and skill. That's less true of of others that directly provide power to their players without the intervention of middlemen.

To that extent, WoW is reasonably mild about microtransactions with the exception of services which I've always thought overpriced. But even with those, you can level up new characters and get to what you want without spending a dime for services or boosts or anything else.

EDIT: I'll also add that most F2P/B2P MMO's have a subscription/patron option where you pay some amount per month for additional access to stuff including often enough some MTX to spend in the game store. Note, that signing up for something like this does NOT make everything in the game available for free. So it's pretty much the same all around; just different variations of how it works.

[Sucralose]

The hypocrisy here is that Blizzard is terrible for providing the token. But hardly anyone mentions that nearly every major MMO in existence has ways to buy gold or gems or game store currencies for cash and ways to convert in-game gold to MTX currencies. It's not a Blizzard thing any longer. It's just about all games in the genre and has been for a long time. If anything, Blizzard was late to the party. Pretty much the exact same system existed in EVE online for years and Blizzard even mentioned when they started the token system that it was modeled on EVE's system.

Add to that the many people who want to have a say in how people spend their money and relatively give the guilds selling carries a pass for doing so makes most of the verbiage about how terrible Blizzard is hypocritical nonsense. The fact is Blizzard has resisted selling power directly in the form of gear through their store. You can reach the very highest reaches of the game without resorting to anything other than patience and skill. That's less true of of others that directly provide power to their players without the intervention of middlemen.

To that extent, WoW is reasonably mild about microtransactions with the exception of services which I've always thought overpriced. But even with those, you can level up new characters and get to what you want without spending a dime for services.

Right but it seems silly to try and pretend those services don't exist as some here are. It should also be noted that these services are still rare to be seen in subscription games.

My biggest annoyance is these systems are often used to monetize problems rather then fix them. Take server transfers, there isn't a reason beyond them wanting to profit over their broken realm system rather then actually trying to fix it. It is the main reason why mythic raiding is restricted as out of any playerbase they are the most likely to move to another server.

It is anti consumer and it baffles me to see any defense of it. It comes off a lot like shakespear. Murders, pardoning murders.

[MoanaLisa]

My biggest annoyance is these systems are often used to monetize problems rather then fix them. Take server transfers, there isn't a reason beyond them wanting to profit over their broken realm system rather then actually trying to fix it. It is the main reason why mythic raiding is restricted as out of any playerbase they are the most likely to move to another server.

But mythic raiding is essentially nothing compared to all the other stuff they've opened up to cross-realm and, correct me if I'm wrong, even mythic raid pick-up-groups are cross-realm after the raid has been out for a bit and has been cleared by enough groups; all stuff that if they were that predatory about realm transfers they would never have implemented. It's just a sort of hollow argument.

[Relapses]

Right but it seems silly to try and pretend those services don't exist as some here are. It should also be noted that these services are still rare to be seen in subscription games.

My biggest annoyance is these systems are often used to monetize problems rather then fix them. Take server transfers, there isn't a reason beyond them wanting to profit over their broken realm system rather then actually trying to fix it. It is the main reason why mythic raiding is restricted as out of any playerbase they are the most likely to move to another server.

It is anti consumer and it baffles me to see any defense of it. It comes off a lot like shakespear. Murders, pardoning murders.

Server transfers have a monetary cost to prevent players (and botters) from abusing the system.

[Galluccio]

It's been basically pay-to-win for years now...

So, what have they sold which has made killing a mythic boss easier? I don’t see anything at all.

[Sucralose]

But mythic raiding is essentially nothing compared to all the other stuff they've opened up to cross-realm and, correct me if I'm wrong, even mythic raid pick-up-groups are cross-realm after the raid has been out for a bit and has been cleared by enough groups; all stuff that if they were that predatory about realm transfers they would never have implemented. It's just a sort of hollow argument.

You are mostly incorrect boarding on entirely but it is something you don't really feel unless you raid mythic. By the time cross realm opens up the raid is effectively over. There is still time to play of course but realistically if you are not on a raid realm you are effectively cut off from playing the game for those three months.

There also doesn't exist any reason to not open up cross realm mythic beyond getting that extra source of revenue. I would argue that it opens up only slightly to allow for trails to prepare to pay for a transfer for the following tier. At least that is how it usually plays out in guilds.

If you can come up with a reason otherwise I would be willing to hear you out but "server community" is a joke at this point.

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Server transfers have a monetary cost to prevent players (and botters) from abusing the system.

I can't see how... it hasn't stopped botters and sharding destroys most advantages playing on other servers offers no?

[Relapses]

The hypocrisy here is that Blizzard is terrible for providing the token. But hardly anyone mentions that nearly every major MMO in existence has ways to buy gold or gems or game store currencies for cash and ways to convert in-game gold to MTX currencies. It's not a Blizzard thing any longer. It's just about all games in the genre and has been for a long time. If anything, Blizzard was late to the party. Pretty much the exact same system existed in EVE online for years and Blizzard even mentioned when they started the token system that it was modeled on EVE's system.

Add to that the many people who want to have a say in how people spend their money while relatively giving guilds or individual selling carries/assistance a pass for doing so makes hypocritical nonsense of most of the verbiage about how terrible Blizzard is. The fact is Blizzard has resisted selling power directly in the form of gear through their store. You can reach the very highest reaches of the game without resorting to anything other than patience and skill. That's less true of of others that directly provide power to their players without the intervention of middlemen.

To that extent, WoW is reasonably mild about microtransactions with the exception of services which I've always thought overpriced. But even with those, you can level up new characters and get to what you want without spending a dime for services or boosts or anything else.

EDIT: I'll also add that most F2P/B2P MMO's have a subscription/patron option where you pay some amount per month for additional access to stuff including often enough some MTX to spend in the game store. Note, that signing up for something like this does NOT make everything in the game available for free. So it's pretty much the same all around; just different variations of how it works.

I've always felt that the token is the lesser of two evils scenario. If it wasn't the token, it'd be gold selling spam. I don't like either but it's unlikely Blizzard would ever have the necessary staffing to fully eliminate gold selling from the game. I'd surmise the real reason it isn't addressed more directly is that both gold selling and boosting (even accounting for RMT) represents such an infinitesimal impact to Blizzard's bottom line that it doesn't warrant fixing.

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I can't see how... it hasn't stopped botters and sharding destroys most advantages playing on other servers offers no?

Dead servers still have economies and opening the floodgates to people abusing said economies would be a surefire way to cause even more inflation. For the record, I don't necessarily agree with the cost of server transfers myself and have repeatedly asked that Blizzard do something like give players a free character service with every {x} months of subscription.

[Sucralose]

I've always felt that the token is the less of two evils scenario. If it wasn't the token, it'd be gold selling spam. I don't like either but it's unlikely Blizzard would ever have the necessary staffing to fully eliminate gold selling from the game. I'd surmise the real reason it isn't addressed more directly is that both gold selling and boosting (even accounting for RMT) represents such an infinitesimal impact to Blizzard's bottom line that it doesn't warrant fixing.

- - - Updated - - -



Dead servers still have economies and opening the floodgates to people abusing said economies would be a surefire way to cause even more inflation. For the record, I don't necessarily agree with the cost of server transfers myself and have repeatedly asked that Blizzard do something like give players a free character service with every {x} months of subscription.

Linking the auction houses would make sense. Granted I don't really know if it is possible either.

[Elbob]

At some point you have to stop right?

You are reaching so absurdly far that you are comparing spending thousands of dollars and risking being banned to paying 25$ and hopping into any spammed carry party in wow.

I have seen people admit to faults in religions they have followed their entire lives faster then you are to admitting wow has gone p2w

its a variation in definition, I've talked about this a lot in a previous thread so I probably won't post past this post.

P2W requires some kind of power directly in the store that is only acquirable by using the store. Gold is not a finite resource in wow and you can farm tons of it very fast. The gold acquired through coins is also not magically generated by blizzard it is from another player so its not adding resources to the market.

I have never bought a wow token and can not get any power from the store so how can I call the game pay to win? There are no items on the store, there are no buffs in the store that can grant me power. And no finite resources that can be used to purchase power.

[Blamboozle]

So, what have they sold which has made killing a mythic boss easier? I don’t see anything at all.

tokens, which can be exchanged for kills :^)

[Relapses]

Linking the auction houses would make sense. Granted I don't really know if it is possible either.

Unlikely to happen since there's a non-insignificant portion of the playerbase whose main reason for subscribing is roleplaying as an AH baron.

[Sucralose]

Unlikely to happen since there's a non-insignificant portion of the playerbase whose main reason for subscribing is roleplaying as an AH baron.

On dead servers with only a few hundred auctions posted at a time?

[Relapses]

On dead servers with only a few hundred auctions posted at a time?

It'd be even easier to be an AH baron because one player could effectively control an entire server's economy with enough patience.

[Lord Kragan]

Yes, it is less visible in-game, and that make some people think that it has become less prevalent...
You or I have no idea if this has made boosting less prevalent, you or I have no idea if this has shifted some of the boosting for in-game currency over to RMT, brokered through external sites.

Well, how about you don't rope others? I for one know it's gotten much less prevalent. From personal experience in my line of work: increasing the difficulty to commit the wrongdoing, and increasing the punishment, coupled with the apllication of said punishment... you dissuade the potential wrongdoers. As i said before, for each step you add to the process, the more people will drop mid way.

[GreenJesus]

Y'all should console (pun not intended....well, maybe a little) yourselves that ATVI was not bought up by EA or TenCent. Or Disney for that matter. There's a lot worse outcomes to imagine than Microsoft (although I find it troubling that MS is buying up so much stuff).

Just saw article that said Activision first attempted to sell to Facebook. Imagine how horrible that would have been. Probably would have had political ads while sitting in queue for LFR. "You must watch 5 30 second ads to join the raid". If you want to receive loot, you have to share your kill to your grandma and poke her.

https://www.gamesradar.com/activisio...report-claims/

[Lollis]

this is delusional at the highest level LOL what you wanna buy shitty boe?

Ignore these people, they don't understand what Pay to Win is. They have somehow deluded themselves into believing that a boost which explicitly requires other people to have cleared content and at best can get someone to a similar gear level is comparable to ACTUAL Pay to Win games such as Neverwinter where you can literally buy massive advantages over EVERYONE else. At most, WoW is Pay to Catchup.

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

Recent microsoft moves on pc looks like a cake against the turd of activision in comparison when it comes to milking the customer. Like having few of their biggest franchises available on the game pass on day 1 seems like something actiblizion would never have done. On top of that i dont think there's any bigger microtransaction you could even add than what the wow token already is.

[MoanaLisa]

Just saw article that said Activision first attempted to sell to Facebook. Imagine how horrible that would have been. Probably would have had political ads while sitting in queue for LFR. "You must watch 5 30 second ads to join the raid". If you want to receive loot, you have to share your kill to your grandma and poke her.

https://www.gamesradar.com/activisio...report-claims/

Yeah, that would be horrible. I mentioned FB as a potential buyer in another post as an example of being careful what you wish for. Someone else mentioned Apple. both companies sitting on mountains of cash and both looking to expand their reach. Neither company has any real history managing games of this scale which would invite a catastrophe. Landing at MS has some concerns but the advantages outweigh the problems I think. At least their track record the last few years has been mostly good.

[Linkedblade]

As per Google:

pay to win ​Definitions and Synonyms
​noun uncountable. /ˌpeɪ tə ˈwɪn/ DEFINITIONS1. in online gaming, the practice of buying in-game items that give a player a very big advantage over others.


Your entire post only says "I don't know the what p2w means" over and over and over. I myself I have bought a token or 2 so that I could buy a SOD carry when I dinged my umteenth alt cuz I didn't feel like spamming m+ or begging friends to carry me. What I did gave me a huge advantage over those who decided to try and gear up the proper way. What I did was p2w.

Two exceptions to that:

One, those items were procured by players who did gear up "the proper way." So, you're not at an advantage compared to them.

Two, those items are available in game as a reward from regular gameplay.

That's not pay to win. P2W Is more similar to how private servers with donation benefits are. You pay money to get items/abilities that give you an unfair advantage that aren't accessible in the game.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Those players are irrelevant and nobody is comparing the carriers to the carr(y)s that's ridiculous off-the-wall logic. Look, I ding 60 the same time as my buddy dings 60. I buy boosts and he does not. I get 240 ilvl overnight while he is still 200. I get Gladiator 2400 ranking the next day while he can't even find a 2s partner who will que with him at 200 ilvl.



That's the entire point? I got those items over night while my buddy will have to grind his ilvl and renown up first for weeks before he can get into a group willing to accept him and grab those items the 'normal' way, which will take more weeks according to RNG.

So I don't know any thing about boosting but wouldn't 240 overnight be rather impossible with how you can only get loot from each boss once a week?