Microsoft and the return of MicroTransactions

[Linkedblade]

Those players are irrelevant and nobody is comparing the carriers to the carr(y)s that's ridiculous off-the-wall logic. Look, I ding 60 the same time as my buddy dings 60. I buy boosts and he does not. I get 240 ilvl overnight while he is still 200. I get Gladiator 2400 ranking the next day while he can't even find a 2s partner who will que with him at 200 ilvl.



That's the entire point? I got those items over night while my buddy will have to grind his ilvl and renown up first for weeks before he can get into a group willing to accept him and grab those items the 'normal' way, which will take more weeks according to RNG.

Exactly that's the point. Buying the item on the AH is an in game mechanic. Getting the item as a drop is an in game mechanic.

It's not P2W. It's not as if you are paying real money directly for an item that isn't available in game.

QED.

Of course a new player will be at a disadvatage when it comes to gear. But both the player that gets items "naturally" or the player that uses wow token gold are both at a disadvatage to players that are already geared. ������

[SniperCT]

I mean they added a store in Wrath, so it's not like RMT hasn't existed in WoW for the bulk of its life.

TBF ESO actually reduced microtransactions. MS reportedly hates loot boxes. ESO added a currency that lets you buy the lootbox items and the currency is earned in game. The store only mounts and pets are still available.

Blizzard probably won't be affected much, if at all. WoW doesn't offer lootboxes, and the store is pretty standard. Overwatch has lootboxes but you earn both those AND currency pretty regularly. At most maybe we'll see some additional ways to get currency. Diablo wouldn't be affected much either. Even Immortal has a fairly tame monetization plan (battlepass mostly) with almost everything earnable in game.

As for the activision side, CoD I haven't played in a long time, but I know they have loot boxes now. If there's no way to aquire lootboxes or lootbox items in game, there's a good chance that'll get added.

While I think that overall for the industry this buyout is bad news(would vastly prefer many smaller companies over a few large ones), for blizz games it's neutral to a net positive IMO.

[Zentail]

If you really want to stick to that argument, be my guest, but it wasn't because of Blizzard. Boosts and item runs have been a thing since Vanilla and it was players who facilitated the whole thing. It's still players being responsible for that. This will be a thing in every game where gear can be traded in one way or another.

Yeah, so this is completely true but will not be taken as true to anyone who doesn't want it to be. Simply them not liking Blizzard/WoW is enough reason that facts can no longer be facts.

Kinda like how people in this thread really think this game has a lot of MTX, which makes me think they've never played another game before. At least, MMORPG. I mean, FFXIV's shop has like 50x more stuff in it, and it's subscription-based too.

Or how people think WoW is P2W, which makes me think they've never played a P2W game before. I mean, to quote the guy from BlizzCon, "don't you guys have phones?" 95% of games on the app store are P2W. The fact people compare that to WoW is incredibly laughable at best and pathetic at worst. WoW will be P2W when they have a $20+ lootbox that contains the most powerful weapon and it's the only way you can get it reasonably (I say reasonably because 395 years of farming F2P to get it isn't reasonable).

[Relapses]

Well yeah 240 might be stretching it a bit, but I daresay not by much, considering every boss has a decent chance of giving you loot, or multiple pieces even via other raiders trading you other pieces that dropped. But also there are still those BOEs on the AH that could fill in a gap or two if you are still lacking. Hell throw in some m+ 15 carries and you could get pretty close even if the raid didn't go your way too well. Gold takes you very far in this game..

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This post confuses me greatly. I feel you are misunderstanding on a fundamental level. P2W isn't the player 'creating new game mechanics to win the game' it's using irl money to get a 'fast pass' and ahead of those who otherwise did not spend irl money in the same scenario.

Think of it like this. P2W is akin to how steroids work in professional sports. They give the user an unfair advantage over the competition. You earlier tried to say that becuase the people carrying you in the raid completed said raid normally means that p2w can't exist. That's like saying that because the people in the race yesterday already finished, my steroids are fair because I'm racing today. It just don't make no sense son.

In other words, for WoW to be P2W you just change the definitions of words to fit a foregone conclusion which is at odds with reality. Then, after being told, repeatedly, that your definition is insufficient, insist that it's the people who are telling you otherwise who are wrong.

[PsychoSe7eN]

i wish people would stop freaking out over microsoft taking over. Everything from "oh ms going to destroy the game with micro transactions now" to "ms is going to put wow in maintenance mode and cancel the next expansion" feels so hysterical. I guess change is scary but painting these doomsday scenarios based on nothing is silly.

facts!!! So true!

[Relapses]

I literally linked the definition. Can we not play this game again where you act like the actual definition isn't the actual definition of p2w and go around the semantics merry go round?

Also none of what you just said in your little timeline of events happened. Like talk about being at odds with reality...

There is nothing more annoying than semantic arguments on internet forums. Since that's all the "WoW is P2W" argument represents and it has a tendency to crop up anytime the word "microtransaction" is typed in any thread, it's exceptionally annoying. I doubt you and I will ever see eye-to-eye here but nothing will change the fact that it's wrong to label WoW P2W.

[T-34]

As per Google:

pay to win ​Definitions and Synonyms
​noun uncountable. /ˌpeɪ tə ˈwɪn/ DEFINITIONS1. in online gaming, the practice of buying in-game items that give a player a very big advantage over others.


Your entire post only says "I don't know the what p2w means" over and over and over. I myself I have bought a token or 2 so that I could buy a SOD carry when I dinged my umteenth alt cuz I didn't feel like spamming m+ or begging friends to carry me. What I did gave me a huge advantage over those who decided to try and gear up the proper way. What I did was p2w.

I think you didn't read my post, but let me try again:

Those that boost people in WoW did the content a long time before, and withouth any help, before they boost those, at best, mediocre players.
Good players can in no way whatsoever buy themselves an advantage compared to other good players, except for BOEs as I mentioned.

So, yes bad playes can pay their way to "win over" other bad players, good players can't buy their way to have an advantage against other good players.
But who cares what bad playes do?

Added:
Let me repeat it again.
You can in no way buy your way to be among the competitors for World 1st.
You can in no way buy your way to be among the top on the M+ ladder
You can pay your way to be mediocre, but you can't pay your way to win.

[MoanaLisa]

I literally linked the definition. Can we not play this game again where you act like the actual definition isn't the actual definition of p2w and go around the semantics merry go round?

Also none of what you just said in your little timeline of events happened. Like talk about being at odds with reality...

Ask 10 people the actual definition of pay-to-win and you can get 10 slightly different answers. It means different things to different people and lines have been drawn. Consult different dictionaries and you'll get different shadings of that which is the bulk of what's being argued about anyway: the stuff at the margins that defines something.

On another note: This argument has been going on for years and after listening to all the arguments over and over I can say this:

Fine. WoW is pay-to-win. So what? I mean what's the point of the argument except to have an argument? Tokens are here to stay. I doubt that MS is going to force them to be gone as they have lots of uses that are not carries and getting the game free every month. People who are up in arms about mythic carries and how they are obtained are more at war with the guilds and groups that use them as a source of guild/group income than they are the buyers. Most people don't care at all one way or another because there are very few people who actually are in what we could call the carry economy.

So you "win" and buy some gear through a carry. It doesn't make anyone more skillful. So OK. WoW is pay-to-win. Again, so what? Advantages are advantages. Being in a good guild is an advantage over those who can't get into guilds, good or otherwise. Having the ability to play hours a day is an advantage over those who don't have the time (Time is money, remember). People are going to have advantages over others. It's the way of the world.

So if everyone agreed that the token is pay-to-win and the argument was moot what would change? Nada, nothing.

Interesting thought: Maybe WoW ought to institute a limit on player-to-player gold transactions. Start with 10,000 gold that an account could spend in gold only once per day with any another player. No 10K to player X and 10K to player Y, etc. You get to do a deal with another account once per day with a limited amount of gold. This wouldn't affect auction house purchases.

Who would be happy about that? Probably no one. Even better, every player-to-player transaction above a certain account would put the gold into a kind of escrow that would only transfer to the other player after 72 hours. It's not a solution because it would cause more problems than carries do now (like driving the carry economy underground and out of game so the fund transfer would be actual money exchanged through a guild website or something similar, or we could go back to the good old days of Chinese gold). It's all quite pointless and in the end the problem just becomes another whack-a-mole as people game the system. At least tokens are honest and relatively safe and have lots of uses other than getting carried through content.

[Raelbo]

Right. There's 19 persons about the payer, instead of 5000. The top only allows for the 0,0000001%. it only allows for THE one person (and yes, this is an hyperbole, just in case).

Honestly, I am not sure why you are struggling so hard to come to grips with what should be a really, really simple concept. In a pay-to-win game, becoming the top/strongest/best/most accomplished players in the game pretty much requires you to spend money. The ability to buy gold from other players in WoW does not give you that at all.

If you're having to pay other players to carry your ass through content, there is simply no way that you can claim to be at the top any proverbial "food chain". Quite the opposite in fact. You're incorrectly confusing having an achievement for having completed something with the capability to actually do it.

[czarek]

Yeah sure theres no of MT in here ...

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/In-Game_Store

[Utrrabbit]

Wow has been micro transaction free you say?


Hahahahahaha sure whatever you say

I mean compared to some others it is tame. FF14 for instance is like 10x the size and you need to pay for emotes and othet stuff to even use in game.

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Yeah sure theres no of MT in here ...

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/In-Game_Store

Compares to FF14 which alone is close to 10x the size and sells anywhere from basic in game emotes, to mounts and armour. (Cosmetic of course). But it still stands wow out of all the other games has the single smallest microtransaction shop on the market.

[Drusin]

Ask 10 people the actual definition of pay-to-win and you can get 10 slightly different answers. It means different things to different people and lines have been drawn.

This.

Fine. WoW is pay-to-win. So what?

and this. What's the point of this argument? Let's say for sake of argument we all unanimously agree that wow is p2w, so what? What now? I for one am not quitting so it makes no difference at all.

[Linkedblade]

Well yeah 240 might be stretching it a bit, but I daresay not by much, considering every boss has a decent chance of giving you loot, or multiple pieces even via other raiders trading you other pieces that dropped. But also there are still those BOEs on the AH that could fill in a gap or two if you are still lacking. Hell throw in some m+ 15 carries and you could get pretty close even if the raid didn't go your way too well. Gold takes you very far in this game..

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This post confuses me greatly. I feel you are misunderstanding on a fundamental level. P2W isn't the player 'creating new game mechanics to win the game' it's using irl money to get a 'fast pass' and ahead of those who otherwise did not spend irl money in the same scenario.

Think of it like this. P2W is akin to how steroids work in professional sports. They give the user an unfair advantage over the competition. You earlier tried to say that becuase the people carrying you in the raid completed said raid normally means that p2w can't exist. That's like saying that because the people in the race yesterday already finished, my steroids are fair because I'm racing today. It just don't make no sense son.

I can't help it if you cant juxtapose how this works. At the beginning of an expansion, no one has gear. In order for the items to drop, the content has to be done. Guilds get equipped then begin to sell boe's on the auction house. It's not as if the can be bought immediately at launch. No one is getting an unfair advantage. If anything it's a catchup mechanic. Yes, it seems unfair to a new player or a player without gold. But it's not an advantage because at no point does it provide something that isn't obtainable in game.

It would be pay to win if and only if: one, it was only accessible with real money, and two, if it provided an advantage over items available in game.

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Wow has been micro transaction free you say?

Hahahahahaha sure whatever you say

That's a fair point. But those have only been for cosmetic items. Nothing compared you what you are talking about as p2w. A monthly subscription isn't considered a microtransaction. And the wow token system isn't pay to win, either.

[Sucralose]

This.



and this. What's the point of this argument? Let's say for sake of argument we all unanimously agree that wow is p2w, so what? What now? I for one am not quitting so it makes no difference at all.

It comes down to people being more annoyed by people being in denial then any real counter argument. When blizzard told good players that bad players would pay for their subs the mold was set.

It just seems silly to be worried about microtransactions being increased.

You can buy power
Tier sets look worse then cosmetic cash shop sets
Mounts from CE are all reskins and less detailed then cash shop ones.

The nightmare they are afraid of happening has already happened and the earth still turns.

[potis]

Nothing here in this ramble has anything to do with p2w and I feel a bit worse for having read it. idk if you understand what p2w is...

Not even sure why you are quoting that person that is literally making sense.

Most of you people have no idea what the term P2W is, you just throw it out as an attempt to cover for your lack of skill to do basic content, and you create "win situations" to games that dont exist.

Pay to win, was the premium ammo being sold in World of Tanks that dealt more damage than the ammo the F2P players had cause its a PvP game and had a win situation.

Pay to win is the mobile games that have "Tier 5 heroes" with +10% to all stats compared to what F2P players can get by random chance that stops at "Tier 4 heroes" or similar shit and have PvP and win situations.

Pay to win was Neverwinter Online when it first released that the higher tier enchant drops didnt exist in the loot tables of the dungeons, but they were available in the game, ONLY if you bought the 100% chance to upgrade from the store for real money, or you could wait something like 3 weeks cause thats when they will be enabled, and you would need 2 weeks farming for ONE, out of the 10 needed, or you could spend ..what was it, 110$, or 150$, otherwise to get your enchants before that, even so, its a game where there was no win situation, but since an item existed to provide gear that doesnt exist in game but it gets sold in the store, it can be considered a Pay to Win situation that didnt really affect anyone.


And thats where @MoanaLisa is right, every person has their own definition, but there is a general definition of P2W, which neither Neverwinter Online and WoW fall into, cause there is no win situation, they give you that itch to call them "P2W!!" but in reality, they arent.

You guys really need to get this into your thick skulls, your inability to do joke difficulty content to get the gear provided (+15s) and because someone pays gold to get that done, does not magically create a win situation in a game that doesnt exist, so you can feel better about yourself not being able to do said content.

If P2W existed in WoW, and was related to the token in a shape or form as the game is today, it would be something like Mythic Sylvanas drops an enchant where the player does +10% damage in PvP situations, which have win situations, maybe THEN i can argue that token is a P2W element.

Thats all the butthurt about the token and nothing else, people should not have what you cant get, because you know your only option to get what you want, is to do the same thing as them cause you guys arent good enough, for multiple reasons whether its because life caught up, or general lack of skill, it does not matter, there must not be a way for others to get what you cant have, thats all it boils down too.

Capitalism is a terrible thing.

[Utrrabbit]

I see 99% of the people have no clue about microtransactions or what p2w actually is.

I won't get started with the microtransactions as everyone who will reply about it; will try to make some bs up thaf they know nothing about.

Instead lets talk about the game being p2w. It is not.

Buying the token is not p2w
Paying for a boost is not p2w
Paying gold for a mythic+ carry is not p2w
Paying gold for a raid carry is not p2w

The only way wow would be considered p2w is if the following happened.

New patch and raid comes out
You buy with real money all drops from the raid thst get mailed to your toon
You buy with real money boss kills and get full credit (achievements) as if you did it yourself
The first person that can buy the service faster than anyond else gets credited for the wf kills.
You pay real money to instantly have your pvo, mythic+ or any other rating in the top bracket withoit actuallt needing to step foot on the content

THAT would be p2w. Everthing else is not and you are wrong if you think they are

[Xires]

Until now wow has been mostly microtransaction free. Yeah a lot of people buy gold and the occassional mount but that isn't that game breaking just an economy issue. However there has been ample opportunity for micro transactions to be implemented and cut out the middle man of players that make a side hustle with it. Here is what I expect to really see from the buyout

10 extra loot rolls for 5$
<Insert farmable resource here> 1$ a stack
Experience buffs 1$
etc etc

Mostly microtransaction free? The WoW token says "Hi".

Buying gold among other things has really hurt the economy. I'd call that game breaking in many ways since economics in an MMO would and should be a big thing.
As for the rest...doubtful but I wouldn't say impossible at this point.

I'm not sure what people are expecting gameplay wise from this Microsoft buyout.
They didn't buy actiblizz out to make a better game. They did it because they think they can make profits from it and actiblizz is in a bad place right now so selling probably made financial sense to them.

This way people will think that the company and the game itself has changed and might be willing to buy it in the future.
Great gameplay is never the goal anymore. This is the 2020's. It's about "player engagement". How long can they keep you online...be it chores or RNG...etc etc

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I see 99% of the people have no clue about microtransactions or what p2w actually is.

I won't get started with the microtransactions as everyone who will reply about it; will try to make some bs up thaf they know nothing about.

Instead lets talk about the game being p2w. It is not.

Buying the token is not p2w
Paying for a boost is not p2w
Paying gold for a mythic+ carry is not p2w
Paying gold for a raid carry is not p2w

The only way wow would be considered p2w is if the following happened.

New patch and raid comes out
You buy with real money all drops from the raid thst get mailed to your toon
You buy with real money boss kills and get full credit (achievements) as if you did it yourself
The first person that can buy the service faster than anyond else gets credited for the wf kills.
You pay real money to instantly have your pvo, mythic+ or any other rating in the top bracket withoit actuallt needing to step foot on the content

THAT would be p2w. Everthing else is not and you are wrong if you think they are

No. Using real world money to buy in-game gold and then spending that in-game gold that you otherwise would not of had to pay other players to run you through for gear, pvp titles, and achievements is definitely pay to win.

You get gear from a raid you otherwise would not of been in and you got it by paying to get carried. And you used in-game gold that you wouldn't of had if it weren't for that wow token that you paid REAL money for to get.

[rrayy]

Return?

its been p2w for years and they are pushing out cosmetic items faster then ever before.

Its never been p2w.

[Sucralose]

Its never been p2w.

Just like there isn't gambling in japan. Instead they play for these metal balls that have no value but then are traded in for prizes from a third party.

[Nzx]

Why are these fucking threads allowed to go on for 10+ pages every time?

It's completely unfounded speculation presented as some kind of informed opinion, the entire premise is to bait people into arguments, and they are always posted in bad faith.