Victory points - idea - long term character progression

[Eosia]

so how do you incentivize new players when they are confronted with competing with year long players that might have triple digit percent gathering and drop rates?

Exactly. Go visit the Fallout 76 spaces and see what new players think about Legacy Weapons.

[Wadrak]

Honestly if I was a new player and saw that system that effectively makes me a permanent second class player I would never play the game. Even as an existing player it screams our content is so terrible the only way we get people to play it is by attaching absurd power rewards to it.

If I was a new player ...

I care about new players but ...

Pretty much everybody who would like to play WoW already tried it since wow is out for like 17 years ... maybe up to 50 mil players played WoW at one point or another ...

There may be some possible new players, like young guys come of age, or others but ....

Pretty much everybody knows whats World of Warcraft is about...

I dont see those sudden influx of new players ...

More likely are some of those veterans who already played coming back.

Thats the market wow should focus on ... the veteran players ... if WoW needs more players.

And those may actually care about Paragon system like this.

[Uko]

If I was a new player ...

I care about new players but ...

Pretty much everybody who would like to play WoW already tried it since wow is out for like 17 years ... maybe up to 50 mil players played WoW at one point or another ...

There may be some possible new players, like young guys come of age, or others but ....

Pretty much everybody knows whats World of Warcraft is about...

I dont see those sudden influx of new players ...

More likely are some of those veterans who already played coming back.

Thats the market wow should focus on ... the veteran players ... if WoW needs more players.

And those may actually care about Paragon system like this.

If I was a veteran returning and saw a system that effectively makes me a second class citizen I would still never come back. There is nothing in what you described that would ever make a returning player go golly gee that looks fun I should come back. All it does is make them go I was thinking about getting nostalgic and trying it but there's no point when I'm so far behind because of the system implemented. Who plays a game to be treated like that by the devs. The system you created only incentives keeping the players already hooked it will make everyone else bounce off completely because no one wants to feel like a second class or sub player just because they don't play all the time.

[Wadrak]

If I was a veteran returning and saw a system that effectively makes me a second class citizen I would still never come back. There is nothing in what you described that would ever make a returning player go golly gee that looks fun I should come back. All it does is make them go I was thinking about getting nostalgic and trying it but there's no point when I'm so far behind because of the system implemented. Who plays a game to be treated like that by the devs. The system you created only incentives keeping the players already hooked it will make everyone else bounce off completely because no one wants to feel like a second class or sub player just because they don't play all the time.

It wouldnt be me but perhaps I might in the minority.

I always like challenge so if somebody has advantage only better

What I think would make player come back.

When they realize after all the grind from the season they would carry something to next season. Instead of just all borrowed power, all BIS gear being useless.

But sure one feature will not bring player back.

But same way one feature will not discourage new players.

[Sylv_]

What you're creating is the AA system from EQ. After a length of years, shit is out of hand. There's like 25000+ AA's in EQ now and if one were to do that normally, they could never compete. Systems need to be in place for catch up.

There is most certainly a hard deadend for character progression and advancement, hence borrowed power.

[Uko]

It wouldnt be me but perhaps I might in the minority.

I always like challenge so if somebody has advantage only better

What I think would make player come back.

When they realize after all the grind from the season they would carry something to next season. Instead of just all borrowed power, all BIS gear being useless.

But sure one feature will not bring player back.

But same way one feature will not discourage new players.

Whats the challenge is there to overcome in a system where if you miss out you missed out and are behind. All that equals is you have to slog through x% more than the people who were already playing. Not exactly top tier content and enjoyable stuff for me but to each their own I guess. Some people do like suffering hence masochism exists.

[Cierah]

Any creep to player power in any manner creates castes of players that are exceedingly difficult to break through given the state of current WoW.

If there wasn't a WF race/progression races every new raid tier or chasing Gladiator every new season then sure, you could easily grant like +0.5% of versatility each predefined time period. Problem is both exist and won't go away and it will prevent the new player from gaining a foothold in either. Sure the newbie could trial for the WF/prog guild and maybe make the bench based on skill but ultimately when DPS or heal checks pop up they would never see the field until farm. Glad? Even worse - you don't have the bonus, you're not on the team. As mentioned way back in post 18, it'll only encourage and harden that caste system.

Sure, it isn't a great feeling to get the equivalent of mythic geared through an expansion or tier and then find then the new one comes out you need to regear. That's an immutable fact of life for a game like WoW, especially with squishes and resets. Think of it this way - you get that good a gearset/power base then you don't -have- to regear as quickly as those who don't so you have built-in strength gathered over time. That works no different than the example given about how a player with a borrowed power system caps and the newbie caps like 5 days later. They are very equivalent with zero change to the game today.

The only rewards that work the way the game is built right now that do not destabilize the game in some way are the cosmetics. Yeah they aren't everyone's cup of tea but if the intent is to reward consistent play, this is it. The new player may see a mount or something and be like "I want that" - well, they can get that if they stay subbed long enough. It is a given. That structure doesn't cater to the "I want it now" crowd and isn't intended to. It rewards sticking with the game long-term.

There's also been comments about the game being seasonal. That has been the case since way back. People play, beat the current content to their satisfaction, unsub, then come back for the next patch/expansion. The points gain behind the system should not be tied to patches or expansions but time subbed. That is the only fair metric to balance across the entire playerbase and provides attainable levels by everyone if they truly want them. It won't incentivize those who only care about player power but that's already been mentioned a number of times why it is a very bad thing to allow that kind of creep. Whatever system would be implemented needs to welcome casuals, PvPers, AND PvErs. It can't just focus on one of the categories. Either everyone is eligible over time or nobody is. That is the only fair way.

[iinverse]

I always like challenge so if somebody has advantage only better

"LF players for m+ or mythic progression static. +50% (or whatever) loot chance and +50% power grind is a must or gtfo".
Also
"WTS +100% loot chance".
Like we have no already a lot of that sh*t in the game.