1. #1

    Raid logging is fine

    Often the term "raid logging" is seen as something negative, it describes a person who foregoes other avenues of content to focus
    their intentions and efforts exclusively on raiding, but is it necessarily a bad idea?

    Purchasing either a token or a subscription, you`re invested for another month, you have access to 30 days of play time regardless of how you choose
    to use your alloted time.
    Does it really matter if you commit to 100 pet battles, or farm 1000 herbs or perhaps just spend your time raiding every week?

    I posit that with the emergence of ideas such as "borrowed power", it creates an unhealthy shift toward game time at the expense of
    enjoyment.
    It has become more difficult to invest your time in game, in pursuit of goals that you`ve set yourself prior to the start of your current play-session.
    If you choose not to take part in these expected and predetermined schedules, you lag behind in progression, it`s no longer just a matter of
    being on the receiving end of bad luck, when it comes to item drops.
    You`re now set on a path that you didn`t choose, commiting to daily and weekly goals that you`ve not defined yourself, to meet a qouta that was
    introduced regardless of your wishes and wants.

    Logging in to retail these days, you`re given a laundry list of chores and activities that you`re expected to do, otherwise you trail behind others.
    But it`s not necessarily the activities themselves that are a problem, it`s because they are tied to player power, an increase in itemlevel and general output.

    In their current design, these systems are supported for 1,5-2 years and then left behind to collect dust.
    Given how extensive their influence is and how prevalent they have become, it may come across as an effort in utter futility to invest much time in them.
    After all someone going through Legion content today is just given an artifact weapon, they don`t have access to it`s talents, it`s more or less just a cosmetic weapon skin.
    But that might just be a more ideal design choice.

    An argument against raid logging is a question of availability of content, just how much would the game have to offer someone?
    The answer is of course -alot-.

    Take the Brawler`s guild for instance, why doesn`t every continent and landmass have their own?
    * Imagine visiting Pandaria, fighting Jade serpents, Mogu, Mantid and manifestions of Sha.
    * You could embark on quests to unlock fighters, one taking you to the Dread Wastes in search of a rumored Mantid champion.
    Celestials would offer a challenge to any mortal who embarks on a spiritual pilgrimage of strength, eager to prove themselves.
    The Mogu were rulers, as such there are bound to be some who still want to see the old ways restored, challenge them in an arena.

    Other areas that Blizzard could support with added content would be:
    - The halfhill farm in Pandaria.
    - The garrison in Draenor.
    - Pet battles.
    - Old raid transmog collecting.
    - Map exploration. (See further below for more information.)
    - Professions. (See further below for more information.)
    - Crafted gear and effects. (See further below for more information.)
    Just to name a few.

    Professions:
    Why isn`t there profession related cosmetic gear?
    You`re picking flowers and herbs, why can`t you craft your own satchel by collecting Tailoring reagents.
    Why isn`t there a journal where you collect and chart down herb and flower-specific information once you`ve studied them dilligently enough?
    As a blacksmith why aren`t there race specific motifs that you can adorn to your plate chest-piece?
    Why can`t you dye armor you`ve created?
    As a Tailor why are you limited to crafting a white "robe of healing"? Instead of a purple, turquoise, magenta, emerald "robe of healing" and so on?
    If you`re a Gnome weaponsmith, why wouldn`t you be tempted to gadget-ify a sword?
    If you`re a Goblin the idea of a sword that offers you a cosmetic effect on triggering a small explosion on the target every now and then might
    be appealing.

    Picture yourself as a herbalist for a moment, you now have access to a profession specific hub area.
    An arboretum where your contributions are on display, maybe you braved the frigid lands of Northrend to obtain a rare specimen?
    It would be a place where players with the profession could congregate, share their journals and exchange information obtained to one another.
    The hub area would offer quests that more or less only serves to add flavour to the profession itself, no player power would be obtained through these various daily activities, only a deeper understanding of the different flora and fauna.

    For blacksmiths the forge in Ironforge now has a second level to it, where artisans visit from all over to demonstrate their creations.
    This too would serve as a hub where quests are offered, yet the rewards would mostly serve to augment your armor in ways that don`t increase your output.
    Reduced durability loss for some time, faster crafting when studying under the tutelage of masters at the forge, aquiring race-specific armor adornments based on which NPC would visit the area and so on.

    The point of this rather long-winded post is to demonstrate that the game wouldn`t suffer from lack options or an availability of interesting content if the developers chose to support it.
    Raid logging is fine without the need to implement these all-encompassing systems of power progression.

  2. #2
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dejiko View Post
    Raid logging is fine without the need to implement these all-encompassing systems of power progression.
    Sure, "Raid logging" can be fine but then said person basically selects to lose out on other benefits for not doing content (like the soon-to-be, 2 legendary use). The only ones who expect you to do things are the player themselves, and their teams for better excelling in content, the truth is, it is all optional - except the main story (until next expansion).
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Sure, "Raid logging" can be fine but then said person basically selects to lose out on other benefits for not doing content (like the soon-to-be, 2 legendary use). The only ones who expect you to do things are the player themselves, and their teams for better excelling in content, the truth is, it is all optional - except the main story (until next expansion).
    In the current design yes but less so if aquisition of legendary items are changed.

  4. #4
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    "Raid logging," or logging in solely to do one type of content either because you're uninterested or finished with the other content you wish to do, is an ultimate subjective thing and is "fine" insofar as it's fine with the person doing it. I'm currently raid logging in WoW because I've done everything I wish to do save a weekly Mythic+ outing with some guildmates, and for me, that's fine - though it'll likely change when 9.2 hits the live servers and there is more content to do. If WoW were the only game I played this might be an issue, though; and I assume that may be true for some people for whatever reasons.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  5. #5
    Raid logging because you want to is and was always fine.

    Years ago people were raid logging because nothing they could do outside of raids would progress their character in any way, aka there's nothing to do. These times are over fortunately.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    "Raid logging," or logging in solely to do one type of content either because you're uninterested or finished with the other content you wish to do, is an ultimate subjective thing and is "fine" insofar as it's fine with the person doing it. I'm currently raid logging in WoW because I've done everything I wish to do save a weekly Mythic+ outing with some guildmates, and for me, that's fine - though it'll likely change when 9.2 hits the live servers and there is more content to do. If WoW were the only game I played this might be an issue, though; and I assume that may be true for some people for whatever reasons.
    Not sure i agree with the focus on power progression being subjective.
    By what you wrote, it seems you`ve completed the checklist of needed criteria in order to ensure progression is advanced,
    and it`s less of a concern/priority now.
    But what about before?

    For someone concerning themself with power progression there is very little subjectivity regarding how it`s attained.
    You have to do collect specific currencies, do specific daily/weekly quests for specific rewards, obtain specific reagents and so on.
    You`re put on a specific path by completing narrow tasks and goals.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dejiko View Post
    I posit that with the emergence of ideas such as "borrowed power", it creates an unhealthy shift toward game time at the expense of
    enjoyment.
    It has become more difficult to invest your time in game, in pursuit of goals that you`ve set yourself prior to the start of your current play-session.
    If you choose not to take part in these expected and predetermined schedules, you lag behind in progression, it`s no longer just a matter of
    being on the receiving end of bad luck, when it comes to item drops.
    You`re now set on a path that you didn`t choose, commiting to daily and weekly goals that you`ve not defined yourself, to meet a qouta that was
    introduced regardless of your wishes and wants.
    I don't disagree. I always use the example of an old school scale: One the one side, there's all the things you enjoy, & on the other is all the stuff you don't enjoy but need to do to be fully effective in the content you enjoy/not hold your friends back. In 8.3, that difference was in excess of 40% power on my Arms Warrior, so not doing it simply wasn't an option, but blimey was it dull.

    In the past I've done everything - Despite not really playing hard for achievements since Legion, I'm still on 34k achie points, so it's not like I'm totally against the idea of doing other forms of content, as I did that for well over a decade. I just don't want to spend time that could be spent playing other games on doing unimaginitive repetitive challengeless content just so I can do the things in the game I still love.

  8. #8
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dejiko View Post
    Not sure i agree with the focus on power progression being subjective.
    By what you wrote, it seems you`ve completed the checklist of needed criteria in order to ensure progression is advanced,
    and it`s less of a concern/priority now.
    But what about before?

    For someone concerning themself with power progression there is very little subjectivity regarding how it`s attained.
    You have to do collect specific currencies, do specific daily/weekly quests for specific rewards, obtain specific reagents and so on.
    You`re put on a specific path by completing narrow tasks and goals.
    I suppose the degree to which you're required to do non-raid tasks is dependent on your focus on progression, but in my experience, once you've completed all the non-raid content of a given content patch then your only true avenue for progression comes from raiding or M+ content, depending on your focus. Currently, 9.1.5 has nothing to offer me outside of the M+ track in terms of power progression - WQ's and such mean little to nothing, nor do weeklies and the like. I don't raid myself, but even if I did what content outside of raiding or M+ would really push me along the power curve at this point?
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

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