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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Plague DIPPED arrows. As in literally anyone who can fire a bow can use them. It's the same as poison dipped arrows.

    Shadowburn shot is just an AoE Black Arrow. Ya know....the spell hunters had up until BfA. I guess rogues are spellcasters now since they can do shadow damage too.
    whos talking about rogues you said dark ranger npcs dont have plague or shadow abilities and they have both maybe just admit youre wrong

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    whos talking about rogues you said dark ranger npcs dont have plague or shadow abilities and they have both maybe just admit youre wrong
    Except I'm not wrong. Plague dipped arrows is not the same as having plague abilities. And shadowburn shot is just an aoe version of a hunter's black arrow. You're being purposely obtuse.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Except I'm not wrong. Plague dipped arrows is not the same as having plague abilities. And shadowburn shot is just an aoe version of a hunter's black arrow. You're being purposely obtuse.
    black arrow was removed 4 years ago and hunters have neither plague arrows or shadow arrows so they are pretty much not the same at all lol

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    black arrow was removed 4 years ago and hunters have neither plague arrows or shadow arrows so they are pretty much not the same at all lol
    Are you just purposely not reading key parts of my posts? They don't have the ability to generate plague. they are literally using arrows dipped in plague. It's alchemy and not magic. Dark rangers are literally nothing but undead elven hunters.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by threadz View Post
    whos talking about rogues you said dark ranger npcs dont have plague or shadow abilities and they have both maybe just admit youre wrong
    As anyone can clearly see, the poster you're replying to will never admit any possibility that they are wrong about Dark Rangers. They do not like them and will cling to any evidence they can find to support their dismissal even if said evidence is blatantly faulty. As seen in their prior reply to you, giving them perfectly valid examples of Dark Rangers using shadow themed spells doesn't matter because they pick and choose what counts to support their flawed argument. Playable Dark Rangers would be based on Sylvanas, the same as playable Demon Hunters are based on Illidan. Both Player DH and Illidan have an immortal demon soul unlike NPC demon hunters who don't. This would mean playable DRs could inherit banshee abilities (Sylvanas still has them in the 9.2 ptr) and skills similar or the same the ones she has in the raid and in HotS (minus the Jailer abilities.) NPC Dark Rangers not having shadow abilities (they do, link below) wouldn't mean anything as far as what players can do.


    https://www.wowhead.com/spell=205421/wailing-arrow

    By extracting all the abilities that refer to domination from Sylvanas' SoD boss fight and keeping all of the abilities that match with her HotS abilities, we get an idea of what abilities are hers without the Jailer's influence and by extension what abilities might be present in playable Dark Rangers.


    Sylvanas' HotS+ SoD abilities

    Black Arrow
    Haunting Wave
    Shadow Dagger
    Wailing Arrow
    Withering Fire



    Other possible abilities that playable Dark Rangers could inherit:


    Bane Arrows
    Banshee's Bane
    Banshee's Blade
    Banshee Form (with Banshee Shroud ability)
    Banshee Heartseeker (Ranger's Heartseeker out of banshee mode)
    Banshee Wail/Scream
    Death Knives
    Desecrating Shot
    Ruin
    Veil of Darkness


    Making Dark Rangers distinct from hunter is easy. Anyone who cannot see this is willfully ignorant. Never say never to any class. Plus, this thread isn't about Dark Rangers.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Ogre empire is not part of the horde, period.
    Neither would Mogu. Because they all crumble.

    You can't find the wow wiki? lol
    No. Put it here.

    What is the joke? goblins are shamans, you can even pick that clas??
    Have you read the lore behind them?

    Because is true, they were going to be neutral.

    This is to show you, it things change.
    No, it is to show me that you use what fits you at the moment.

    Not rly, if you play in BfA the mogu were enemies of the horde and zandalar
    I was talking about Night elves and Pandaren.

    No, you are simple trying to distort the argument, the maghar that joined the horde are a group of orcs 30 YEARS after the events of WoD and they were not the iron horde. yet youa re trying to put then in the same bag.
    Stop using excuses. They are the same ones. Overlord Gey'arah is as war-crazed as any other Mag'har:

    "The Alliance embraces the draenei and their Lightforged kin.
    That alone is reason to crush their cities to dust."

    "Unlike most leaders, Geya'rah supported the increasingly hostile actions of Sylvanas Windrunner during the Fourth War. Under Sylvanas's command Geya'rah armed her forces for battle against their enemies, which caused the Overlord to remark that the Mag'har always stood ready to crush the bones of their enemies."

    Like i sai,d keep telling me how you don't know about the horde and the orcs

    IT funny that you think there is only two options, either bloodthirst monsters or "gentle giants"
    Go ahead and tell me what the Orcs are.

    Yet, the weak son would still lead, by Mogu laws, you know, unless his entire family is killed by another warlord.
    An example of a weak Mogu Warlord?

    How im mistaken if the link literally confirm they are not titan-forged? lmao
    Breakers: The descendants of the giant Grond who was created by Aggramar to free Draenor from the Evergrowth.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Dark ranger npcs don't have shadow and plague abilities either. You're thinking of death knights. Try again.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dar...Clea#Abilities
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Nat...ics)#Abilities

    You were saying?

    Sylvanas has her powers both from the Jailer and because she's a banshee. She is 100% unique in her powers.
    Just like Arthas and Illidan. That's what iconic representative characters are.

    Also, hunters had black arrow for quite a long time.
    Had.

    So you can try and rant and rave about how dark rangers can totally be a class but you'll be wrong every time.
    Not a class, but a spec within a new class.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Plague DIPPED arrows. As in literally anyone who can fire a bow can use them. It's the same as poison dipped arrows.
    Stop trying to find excuses. You said they don't have any plague-based abilities and you were shown to be wrong.
    And no, not everyone can use it because not everyone masters death alechemism like Forsaken do.

    Shadowburn shot is just an AoE Black Arrow. Ya know....the spell hunters had up until BfA. I guess rogues are spellcasters now since they can do shadow damage too.
    Again, coming up with excuses. You said they don't have any shadow abilities. You were proven to be completely wrong for the thousandth time.
    Except Shadowburn doesn't summon anything.
    What the hell do Rogues using Shadow have to do with spellcasting?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Except I'm not wrong. Plague dipped arrows is not the same as having plague abilities.
    Yes, it is. The matter of transeference doesn't matter.

    And shadowburn shot is just an aoe version of a hunter's black arrow. You're being purposely obtuse.
    Look who's talking. You asked for shadow abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Are you just purposely not reading key parts of my posts? They don't have the ability to generate plague. they are literally using arrows dipped in plague. It's alchemy and not magic.
    Yes, a key part of the Forsaken. Not everyone can do that.

    Dark rangers are literally nothing but undead elven hunters.
    That's where you're wrong, kiddo.
    Last edited by username993720; 2022-01-28 at 12:45 AM.

  7. #87
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Neither would Mogu. Because they all crumble.
    then why your point is that the mogu as empire should join the horde who have empires?
    Have you read the lore behind them?
    They are still shamans, regardless, they still bargain with the spirits.

    Stop using excuses. They are the same ones. Overlord Gey'arah is as war-crazed as any other Mag'har:
    No, again, you show lack of knowledge, the maghar are 30 years in the future, after the events of WoD they didn't want to conquer draenor, or azeroth and lived fine until the draeneis started to hunt then down, so, no, they are not the same

    "The Alliance embraces the draenei and their Lightforged kin.
    That alone is reason to crush their cities to dust."
    Yes, because the draeneis went holy crusade against the surviving maghar

    stop cherrypicking
    Go ahead and tell me what the Orcs are.
    I tell you what they aren't, they aren't mogu

    Breakers: The descendants of the giant Grond who was created by Aggramar to free Draenor from the Evergrowth.
    And this is probably why you say so many nonsense, you just half-asset read the wiki searching for the arguments that fit your point

    the wiki literalyt tells us the breakers are not titan-forged, they only say, titan-related races, being related to titans don't make you titan-forged, and only grond was created by Agrammar and not even him was a ttian-forged.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-01-28 at 02:00 PM.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    then why your point is that the mogu as empire should join the horde who ahve empires?
    No one said they should join as an empire. You brought up the empire thing.

    They are still shamans, regardless, they still bargain with the spirits.
    Technically. There's nothing spiritual about them in the slightest.

    No, again, you show lack of knowledge, the maghar are 30 years in the future, after the events of WoD they didn't want to conquer draenor, or azeroth and lived fine until the draeneis started to hunt then down, so, no, they are not the same
    I just showed you how they're still warmongerers and you come up with that?

    Yes,b ecause the draeneis went holy crusade against the surviving maghar

    stop cherrypicking
    Lightbound. Normal Draenei had nothing to do with it.


    I tell you what they aren't, they aren't mogu
    Stop evading. Tell me what they are.

    And this is probably why you say so many nonsense, you just half-asset read the wiki searching for the arguments that fit your point

    the wiki literalyt tells us the breakers are not titan-forged, they only say, titan-related races, being related to titans don't make you titan-forged, and only grond was created by Agrammar and not even him was a ttian-forged.
    A stone giant made by a titan. Hmmm... sounds very familiar:
    "The giants were created from the Forge of Wills.
    The stone giants were conscripted to roam the breadth of Azeroth, lifting towering mountain ranges".

  9. #89
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    No one said they should join as an empire. You brought up the empire thing.
    you said the mogu empire should join the horde because they have the ogre empire and zandalari empire

    Technically. There's nothing spiritual about them in the slightest.
    who said something about spiritual? i said they are shamanistic, they have shamans under their ranks, something related to the main horde races.

    I just showed you how they're still warmongerers and you come up with that?
    you show how their leader feel against their enemies and the friends of their enemies, your twisting bear no relevance to the discussion.

    Lightbound. Normal Draenei had nothing to do with it.
    the lighforged are the MU counterpart, if you want to say the MU orcs are the same as AU orcs, you ahd to consider here too. Besides, they jsut think theya re the same ones, they do not have meta knowledge like us.


    Stop evading. Tell me what they are.
    already said, not mogu, if you want more, find their wiki, or find previous comments, when i literally said orcs are shamanistic and tribal people, who, are not like mogu, at all.
    A stone giant made by a titan. Hmmm... sounds very familiar:
    Its not familiar, you can stop distorting and cherrypick

    Grond is not an titan-forged construct, he is a being created by agrammar by different methods. The things that came out of grond also, are not titan forged, the wiki literally said they aren't.

    your argument that "they are giants, they are same" is chilidish
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-01-28 at 01:59 PM.

  10. #90
    There is absolutely no way they’d introduce two new subspecs for each class. Would be a balancing nightmare and that alone makes this obviously fake.

    The only class they’ve added in just shy of a decade only had two specs. They don’t want new specs. 5 new covenants and 2 specs for each class? Not even remotely feasible.

  11. #91
    Let the light and shadow dance!

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    you said the mogu empire should join the horde because they have the ogre empire and zandalari empire
    *Facepalm*

    I never said the Mogu empire, i said the Mogu. Refresh you memory. The one who brought up the empire issue was you. You said Horde doesn't have any. To which i replied that it does.

    who said something about spiritual? is aid they are shamanistic, they have shamans under their ranks, something related to the main horde races.
    Shamans are spiritual leaders of their tribes.

    you should how their leader feel against their enemies and the friends of their enemies, your twisting bear no relevance to the discussion.
    And aiding Sylvanas' agression, which has nothing to do with Draenei?

    the lighforged are the MU counterpart, if you want to say the MU orcs are the same as AU orcs, you ahd to consider here too. Besides, they jsut think theya re the same ones, they d not have meta knowledge like us.
    That still doesn't account for normal Draenei.
    And did you just call them stupid, unable to differentiate between the two?

    already said, not mogu, if you want more, find their wiki, or find previosu comments, when i literally said orcs are shamanistic and tribal people, who, are not like mogu, at all.
    That's all you have to describe the Orcs? I'm not looking for a wiki explanation because it would support my viewpoint. I'm looking for your strange perspective.

    Well, Mogu are not strangers to the elements of air, earth and water, as Lei-Shen was the Thunder King, the Mogu themselves made of stone constructs and them using the waters of the Vale of Eternal Blossoms to create creatures to serve them.
    As for tribalism, while true in regards to Mogu, not all Orcs are tribal people. They have many clans. Blackrock aren't tribal, and perhaps also the Shattered Hand and Burning Blade.

    Its not familiar, you can stop distorting and cherrypick

    Grond is not an titan-forged construct, he is a being created by agrammar by different methods. The things that came out of grond also, are not titan forged, the wiki literally sayd they arent.


    your argument that "they are giants, they are same" is chilidsh
    You know what the word titan-forged mean?
    Titan, as in the Titanic beings.
    Forged, as in: "make or shape (a metal object) by heating it in a fire or furnace and beating or hammering it."

    "he instead decided to create a mighty servant in his own image to uproot the Sporemounds. Aggramar swept his colossal hand over the world and wove its fire, air, earth, and water energies into a massive elemental storm. He channeled the roaring tempest into Draenor's largest mountain, sending the energies blasting through the crust and causing shockwaves of force to echo around the globe. The mountain itself groaned to life and rose up on two colossal legs. Raw elemental power crackled over a craggy hide crisscrossed by veins of molten stone. Aggramar named his creation Grond, and he would serve as the titan warrior's hand on Draenor."

    "Crafted epochs ago by the titans from massive sections of stone, these creatures seek to protect the natural environment from any who would cause it harm."

    "Stone giants were listed as one of the five types of titan-made giants, and so may be a single race that includes all other types of stone-based giants, such as mountain giants and colossi."
    Last edited by username993720; 2022-01-28 at 08:29 AM.

  13. #93
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Alliance-exclusive Mogu when they were ancient allies of the Zandalari? Yeah... doesn't make sense. Horde or neutral.



    Bullshit. She had enough of serving other forces:




    As expected.



    That's where you're wrong, buddy.
    They make up more than enough for a class.
    Now I'm not saying the OP is right, in fact sounds really far fetched to me, but history is full of people who say they're tired of serving and just end up serving someone else...Sylvanas is a example
    #WithoutRespectWeReject

  14. #94
    ONe thing I'll say about all these "leaks". It means Blizz is not far off from announcing the xpac. I always suspect Blizz puts out fake leaks to try and drown out any real ones and typically they happen shortly before expansion announcement.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    Now I'm not saying the OP is right, in fact sounds really far fetched to me, but history is full of people who say they're tired of serving and just end up serving someone else...Sylvanas is a example
    Sylvanas really is something special...
    "I will never serve!" Serves the Horde and the Jailer.

  16. #96
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    *Facepalm*
    Facepalm indeed
    Shamans are spiritual leaders of their tribes.
    great, and? are you trying to say to me goblins don't have shamans because they aren't "spiritual"? jesus

    And aiding Sylvanas' agression, which has nothing to do with Draenei?
    we are at war, everyone helped

    And did you just call them stupid, unable to differentiate between the two?
    the races don't have meta knowledge

    That's all you have to describe the Orcs? I'm not looking for a wiki explanation because it would support my viewpoint. I'm looking for your strange perspective.
    The wiki does not support your view, it literally goes against the bs you saying because you are cherrypicking evidence, a low way to use a fallacy.

    Well, Mogu are not strangers to the elements of air, earth and water, as Lei-Shen was the Thunder King,
    Titan magic, thunder king literally took Ra power, not a shaman, NEXT

    You know what the word titan-forged mean?
    Do you? the wiki page literally told us what the tita-forged races are. And yet, you are wrongly thinking everything titan related is titan forged
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-01-28 at 01:57 PM.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Facepalm indeed
    So, let's agree empires don't really matter in this discussion because only a contingent of the race actually joins the factions?

    great, and? are you trying to say me goblins don't have shamans because they aren't "spiritual"? jesus Christ
    They do. But, i wouldn't consider them Shamans in the traditional sense. Just like Sunwalkers aren't your traditional Paladin.

    we are at war, everyone helped, my god
    Nope. There were Sylvanas loyalist and there were the rebels.

    "Overlord Geya'rah, along with Jastor Gallywix, were the only two leaders to stay loyal to Sylvanas."

    the races don't have meta knowledge
    They lived alongside both the Draenei and the Lightbound. I think they can differentiate between the two. And i'm the one portraying the orcs unjustifyingly....

    The wiki does not support your view, it literally goes against the bullshit you saying because you are cherrypicking evidence, a low way to use a fallacy.
    And you still haven't provided a detailed description of the Orc race according to your views. Great.

    Titan magic, thunder king literally took Ra power, not a shaman, NEXT
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Fist_of_Ra-den

    Do you? the wiki page literally told us what the tita-forged races are. And yet, you are wrongly thinking everything titan related is titan forged
    Not titan related as in Dragons, for examples, which were only empowered and not created, or the Goblins, which were a race experimented upon, or even the Seekers, which were infused with Light by the Titans.
    Grond was created by the Titan in a similar manner to titanforged like Mountain and Stone Giants.

  18. #98
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    They do. But, i wouldn't consider them Shamans in the traditional sense. Just like Sunwalkers aren't your traditional Paladin.
    yeah, you would not, but as we see, what you think hardly, make sense with the canon. Goblins are shamans, orcs, taurens and trolls are shamans. They make sense to be in the same faction.

    Nope. There were Sylvanas loyalist and there were the rebels.
    If you actually played the expansion, you would know everyone was a "sylvanas loyalist" everyone sided with her in the war, and only in the 8.2 we start making a rebellion. with some people, majority of the horde sided with her, regardless.

    Geyhara only stand with her because she didn't want to break the blood oath, but once mak'gora happens she knew sylvanas isn't a good leader.
    They lived alongside both the Draenei and the Lightbound. I think they can differentiate between the two. And i'm the one portraying the orcs unjustifyingly....
    what the hell are you talking about, the lighforged who joined the alliance are the same "subrace" as the lighbound, they literally both lighforged. Maghar don't have meta knowledge to know they are different kinds of zealots, you know, just like humans though forsaken were the scourge.

    And you still haven't provided a detailed description of the Orc race according to your views. Great.
    already did, there is no point in giving more to someone who clearly don't want to comprehend the basic

    you again dropping things thi way, like it prove something.

    You know too that death knigths took legion weapons? does not mean they use fel magic
    Not titan related as in Dragons, for examples, which were only empowered and not created, or the Goblins, which were a race experimented upon, or even the Seekers, which were infused with Light by the Titans.
    Grond was created by the Titan in a similar manner to titanforged like Mountain and Stone Giants.
    you keep going against the lore, grond was not a titan-forged, the races who evolved from him are not titan forged, period.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-01-28 at 01:56 PM.

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