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  1. #161
    Cata had transmog and good PvP. The rest was shit. Class changes were trash for the most part, world revamp was horrible, story and lore was disastrous.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    mop didnt strip anything,most talents and mecanics were simply baked in to the class,mop is actualy when we had the most bloat,and the new talents actualy offered real choices that were also flexible for the situation

    granted it was in wod when the talents really saw an even bigger improvement with them being spec related not class
    They stripped out the old talent system and concepts for the system we have today. I do agree the essence of everything was still there, but it opened the door to removing all the abilities that existed in Mists. Bloat was never a problem. You should have access to many tools thematically and powerfully. Things should have built on the foundation; as opposed to, reworking the foundation each Expac.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Cata had transmog and good PvP. The rest was shit. Class changes were trash for the most part, world revamp was horrible, story and lore was disastrous.
    Blasphemy

    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Absolutely not. Cataclysm did enormous damage to the game.
    How?
    Last edited by Aedruid; 2022-01-26 at 03:30 PM.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedruid View Post
    I don't know what you're talking about. Uldum was awesome. Al'Akir and the Throne of the Four Winds?

    Also, the story wasn't disjointed at all. Just multiple plot points instead of one, like it has nowadays.
    Al'Akir seemed to have barely any plan beyond "be annoying with stone cats", i mostly remember that Indiana Jones joke continueing for way too long.

    Vashj'ir had no genuine resolution with N'zoth's tentacles and Ozumat on the loose, Twilight highlands was disappointing, Blackwing was somewhat random. Alsp it all happening everywhere seemed so random until i later played through the levelling zones.
    So yesh that's what i mean with disjointed; it's one thing to have a story, but if you can't tell it proper it's like not having a story at all.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by loras View Post
    Al'Akir seemed to have barely any plan beyond "be annoying with stone cats", i mostly remember that Indiana Jones joke continueing for way too long.

    Vashj'ir had no genuine resolution with N'zoth's tentacles and Ozumat on the loose, Twilight highlands was disappointing, Blackwing was somewhat random. Alsp it all happening everywhere seemed so random until i later played through the levelling zones.
    So yesh that's what i mean with disjointed; it's one thing to have a story, but if you can't tell it proper it's like not having a story at all.
    Yeah both of those were unfortunate storyline-wise. Apparently Blizz was going to add another raid that was in the plane of water (continuation of the story), but it was cut. That leveling zone / the beginning of content felt like it had so much potential. Too bad :/

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethule View Post
    False. We got amazing heroic lineup, introduction of RBGs and 4/5 very killer raids. We also got Transmog and goblins. It also gave more race options for classes and a new azeroth to explore. Mmmm
    We also got the best raid structure, the 10s and 25s. And actual interactive raid mechanics with the Throne of Four Winds actually MOVING your character during the encounter.
    Cataclysm did a lot of good, but at the same time, it did a lot of damage in modernising the game. That's why MoP is the best expansion, because it took all the good ideas Cataclysm had and polished them into a really good game.

    I personally really dislike Cataclysm, but you are right that the devs did establish a lot of very sound game design features. Even some really cool story features.

    Storywise and story design wise, I think the expansion really suffered from the focus on the Twillight Hammer and the Elements, which is an aspect of WoW lore that is so bland and uninteresting. Coming from a flavor heavy expansion like Wotlk, where we fight the MOST popular villain? Deathwing and his ragtag band of flavorless cultists just couldn't measure.
    Vashir was, understandably, hated. And even for the players that did like it, like me, there was a complete dead end in the story, never to be resolved.
    Also, and Ghostcrawler said this and I agree with him, the decision to split the end zones into multiple continents also really hurt the immersion.
    And then we got the last patch, which not only introduced LFR, one of the most unpopular and controversial addition to the game, but the content was lacking.
    We've just had Firelands, one of the best instances in the game, and they decide to close off the expansion with Dragon Soul?

    Just so I don't talk only about lore points, there were also game mechanics that were a complete miss. The talent rework? good direction, but it was a bastard between the RPG, costumisable Wotlk talent trees and the modernised, quick paced and effective MoP talent trees. The classes? a lot of classes straight up lost their flavor when they got redone. I personally fell out with my Paladin after the rework, and I am sure a lot of players had similar experiences with other classes. They just bit off a lot more than they could have ever possibly chewed, Cataclysm was a massive modernisation of the game, one that couldn't be done in one expansion cycle, that's why Cataclysm suffered all the way to MoP, when they finally finished the transformation into a modern game.

    And one thing I cannot possibly forgive was the treatment of HC dungeons. HC dungeons was one of the better part of Cataclysm, all fancy modern looking with proper mechanics, and the devs caved in the cries of the casuals and just got rid of them completly. It was something to be expected coming from 3.3, with the Dungeon Finder and all the influx of new players, but it did change the game a lot.
    Last edited by Fistfighter; 2022-01-26 at 10:51 PM.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Aedruid View Post
    Yeah both of those were unfortunate storyline-wise. Apparently Blizz was going to add another raid that was in the plane of water (continuation of the story), but it was cut. That leveling zone / the beginning of content felt like it had so much potential. Too bad :/
    Exactly, hence perhaps the disappointment. Also Gilneas, such a nice zone and theme, so little use.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  7. #167
    I liked cata, and Vashjr are among my all time favourite zone(s)

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