Now i look at bit different at Steve Danuser

[Niwes]

I literally told you they said Grom hellscream was going to be the final boss of warlords of draenor and they changed completely 9.2 to be a burning legion patch with Archimonde as final villain

If you think everything is set in stone because they starting doing a sketch or an overall plot in advance you are being naive. That was a literal prove to show how things can change in the middle of the expansion, they do not have an expansion ready when one is going on,, otherwise they didn't expand months doing a patch.

The overall plot of shadowlands with the Janitor could very well be established under afrasiabi, but how the expansion unfolded, and sylvanas redemption is all Danuser job.

imo its both correct, what @Ragedaug said and what you says. the truth lies somewhere in the middle: the overall ark and plot is imo defined rather early. but on the road, while making patches in the xpacs lifetime, a lot can change, and the patch‘s plots are not set in stone already and instead are developed at the go.

but ofc, when an overall plot and character directions are set for a given xpac, you can’t just easily do a 180 degrees turn. yes, the story and character directions change with the patches and are developed in the patches. means 9.2 is ofc completely a Danuser story. but on the other hand, the direction or „motivations“ of the overall Jailor and Sylvanas plot, was created before SL release.

this doesn’t mean its all set in stone. this doesn’t mean things are not based on Danusers work. but it also doesn’t mean Danuser can go 180 degrees in 9.1, against the narrative, that was designed for SL long before 9.0.

so, imo, the truth lies in mid of both of your opinions. its just how that biz works.

[kaminaris]

this doesn’t mean its all set in stone. this doesn’t mean things are not based on Danusers work. but it also doesn’t mean Danuser can go 180 degrees in 9.1, against the narrative, that was designed for SL long before 9.0.

so, imo, the truth lies in mid of both of your opinions. its just how that biz works.

Listen, "direction" of a plot doesn't define quality of a story. It's how it told and all the little fine details. And that is how and why it failed miserably.
They could have easily limit the influence of janitor and come up with different reason why he is next big villain, but Daunser didn't.


Disclaimer: I don't know the guy, just happen to see this particular video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGq-NWHQjps

[Super Kami Dende]

So from what I gather from People in this thread. They are excusing Danuser's shitty writing because someone else was also a shitty writer?

[Syegfryed]

So from what I gather from People in this thread. They are excusing Danuser's shitty writing because someone else was also a shitty writer?

not only that, claiming Danuser is just trying to "fix" what is wrong with the lore

[Xilurm]

Taliesin is so weird to fucking watch. Dude yells and treats his chat like shit all the time.

[Verdugo]

Yep, don't get me wrong...Afrasiabi is apparently a terrible person who harasses women. But he (generally) did a good job as the game's creative director. It looks like his "feud" with Danuser started at the beginning of BFA (and Danuser is a terrible excuse for a "writer" with some of the most awful ideas I've ever seen)...and was probably just Afrasiabi trying to make it impossible or at least much more difficult for Danuser to implement his terrible Sylvanas shipping ideas. I mean, the dude changed Nathanos into his self insert (and it's recognized in the story that he was changed) and pretty much blatantly shipped himself with her. That's pretty creepy, maybe not QUITE as creepy as Afrasiabi harrassing women in real life, but still creepy.

I have a feeling Blizzard is going to use Afrasiabi as a scapegoat for everything wrong with the game from this point though. Because he's gone. And while yes, he's a terrible person, he generally did a great job with the game. It's possible to like the work, while disliking the creator.

Dude, Afrasiabi is behind "one legion across the multiverse" and "Draenor is a death titan".

[Nize]

Dude, Afrasiabi is behind "one legion across the multiverse" and "Draenor is a death titan".

Draenor's a death titan?

[Austilias]

except that is literally not what they are trying to do but ok.

You're right, what they're trying to do is far, far less imaginative.

[Verdugo]

Draenor's a death titan?

It apparently was before someone corrected him.

[Ersula]

Dude, Afrasiabi is behind "one legion across the multiverse" and "Draenor is a death titan".

He was also behind the whole "Wrathgate wasn't a nathrazim coup (quick, remove the scenario from the game so everyone blames Sylvanas instead of Verimathras)" thing.

In retrospect, removing the verimathras/putress fight scenario speaks to them preparing for the Shadowlands storyline, way back then, but also that they clearly needed to retcon things in order for it to work. They never remove questlines, why was getting rid of that necessary? Primarily because without the climax, the wrathgate storyline makes Sylvanas seen responsible when she wasn't.

[Verdugo]

He was also behind the whole "Wrathgate wasn't a nathrazim coup (quick, remove the scenario from the game so everyone blames Sylvanas instead of Verimathras)" thing.

In retrospect, removing the verimathras/putress fight scenario speaks to them preparing for the Shadowlands storyline, way back then, but also that they clearly needed to retcon things in order for it to work. They never remove questlines, why was getting rid of that necessary? Primarily because without the climax, the wrathgate storyline makes Sylvanas seen responsible when she wasn't.

It was because they revamped the world next expansion and it wasnt a separate scenario but a different phase. Wouldnt be surprised if there were technical issues.

[Engal]

Hey folks,

it’s crazy shit, that’s going on, imo. Watched this Taliesin video a few mins ago:

Afrasiabi's Sylvanas Sabotage : The Truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN0CzpbZAbM

Thats CRAZY shit. And honestly i do not think Taliesin had done that for clicks or something like that. He sounds rather credible/honest to me, in the video part about not hurting someone of the 4 mentioned sources.

Tbh i can totally imagine this. And it sheds a completely different light on Danusers work, even when considering the bad SL narrative. Since i also already experienced such things in such companies, i know how hard it can be, to repair the damage other ppl did to a product.

And just as a final note: I wether have something to do with Taliesin, nor i am that huge Youtube influencer watcher or something. I watch some Bellular or Asmongold vids here and there, and that’s it.

Just thought i share this (imo) rather interesting and crazy stuff with MMOC.

(if you don’t know what this post should be about, just watch the above mentioned video)

I'm not trusting Taliesin judgement.

It's no wonder than recently everyone is " learning " Afriasabi has supposedly done, because it's probably a way to try to put under the rug the problem of SL and BFA plot point.

However, even if Afriasabi was responsible for many flaws, The lore direction could have been better after he left. It was'nt. They had opportunity to handle it better, they did not. It's a shared blame and Afriasabi is not responsible for everything.

[stross01]

Sylvanas and the Jailer were established pre-2010.



She's been using chain magic and brainwashing for longer than she hasn't.

Danuser isn't fully responsible for the debacle we're in now, but he's still a terrible writer.

[Ersula]

Sylvanas and the Jailer were established pre-2010.

If that's your logic, all priests have been working for the jailer forever because of the chain undead spell. Koltira literally committed treason here & Garrosh would have just decapitated him immediately, so spare us.

- - - Updated - - -

not only that, claiming Danuser is just trying to "fix" what is wrong with the lore

Or, just waiting for a full expansion he's actually been in charge of. Factually, Danuser has only been in charge of 70% of Shadowlands & back when it first came out I was imagining all the ways it could have been worse than it was.

Overall, not just murdering another WC3 character feels like an upswing from the awful experience of BFA.

[s0ul]

Let's get this right. Even if Afrasaibi wrote Sylvanas up until Teldrassil---what came after it was the actual disaster, not the burning of Teldrassil itself. We didn't know her motive until the end of BfA. The entirety of BfA was super vague. They had ample opportunity to add in something that made sense, but no--they actually went ahead with the cinematic of Sylvanas killing Saurfang and leaving the Horde. If Afrasaibi cut out a cinematic and they were able to scrap ideas, why did they leave this in? lmao

This is entirely the fault of Steve Danuser who is now trying to put blame on the perfect scapegoat. Mr. Danuser wanted the story this way because he wanted his waifu to be the main character. He has a super creepy obsession with Sylvanas. He believes he's actually Nathanos irl and this is part of the reason why Sylvanas got an awful redemption arc. I honestly though the standard for proving something would be more than just "I heard this rumour". Nobody else from Blizzard has come out to support this rumour because that's all this is--a rumour. Mr. Danuser has been the one greenlighting everything.

[Lord Kragan]

I mean, that still leaves room for plenty of bad writing, which ranges from very nonsensical things like "the circles are industrious" to mindboggling moments like zovaal ordering his forces to retreat when they are about to crush the heroes. Those are all on danuser's end.

[Every Pwny]

It's just blizzard not taking responsibility for a very unpopular story. I believe for the Exploring Kalimdor book Sean Copeland through his wife was trying to say some unknown person at blizzard added all the racist tropes in there, so all of the criticism should go to some unknown scapegoat, but all the praise should go to him. It's kind of obvious from the Uther plotline at the beginning of Shadowlands they were setting up the sylvanas redemption, so it's not like 9.0 can be blamed on Alex, it was clearly set up from the beginning of the expansion. Afrasiabi may have been a pos, but that doesn't absolve the team from their writing in BfA or any part of SL, they are just scapegoating and keep in mind, even after a sexual harasser like Afrasiabi left, no one at blizzard is really coming out officially to denounce his shitty work, just just random DMs to youtube influencers about how some people there may not have like the burning several years afterwards because the story is just so bad right now.

[Arai]

Let's get this right. Even if Afrasaibi wrote Sylvanas up until Teldrassil---what came after it was the actual disaster, not the burning of Teldrassil itself. We didn't know her motive until the end of BfA. The entirety of BfA was super vague. They had ample opportunity to add in something that made sense, but no--they actually went ahead with the cinematic of Sylvanas killing Saurfang and leaving the Horde. If Afrasaibi cut out a cinematic and they were able to scrap ideas, why did they leave this in? lmao

This is entirely the fault of Steve Danuser who is now trying to put blame on the perfect scapegoat. Mr. Danuser wanted the story this way because he wanted his waifu to be the main character. He has a super creepy obsession with Sylvanas. He believes he's actually Nathanos irl and this is part of the reason why Sylvanas got an awful redemption arc. I honestly though the standard for proving something would be more than just "I heard this rumour". Nobody else from Blizzard has come out to support this rumour because that's all this is--a rumour. Mr. Danuser has been the one greenlighting everything.

This man here knows whats up. Danuser will do everything he can to redeem his waifu Sylvanas. He probably lives half in a made up world in his mind where he talks to Sylvanas about their relationship and plans. He will burn everything down in his path to fulfill his plans with his waifu. The first step was to get everything leaked/going with Afriasabi for his personal vendetta for setting up his waifu. But also to shift blame away from him so he can succeed with his quest for his waifu.
DO NOT STAND IN HIS WAY OR YOU WILL BE CRUSHED BY DANUSER, MARK MY WORDS!!!

[stross01]

If that's your logic, all priests have been working for the jailer forever because of the chain undead spell. Koltira literally committed treason here & Garrosh would have just decapitated him immediately, so spare us.

Yeah, the mysterious usage of purging all feeling after being gripped by magical metal chains from nowhere is probably just a coincidence. The usage of 'reckoning' and 'the reckoning' for everything involving sylvanas probably also just a coincidence.

- - - Updated - - -

Or, just waiting for a full expansion he's actually been in charge of. Factually, Danuser has only been in charge of 70% of Shadowlands & back when it first came out I was imagining all the ways it could have been worse than it was.

Yeah, waiting to find out if a career bad-writer is going to bad-write again for 2+ years is a wise decision.

[Niwes]

Listen, "direction" of a plot doesn't define quality of a story. It's how it told and all the little fine details. And that is how and why it failed miserably.
They could have easily limit the influence of janitor and come up with different reason why he is next big villain, but Daunser didn't.


Disclaimer: I don't know the guy, just happen to see this particular video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGq-NWHQjps

i do not disagree.

- - - Updated - - -

So from what I gather from People in this thread. They are excusing Danuser's shitty writing because someone else was also a shitty writer?

i read all the posts. and this is not what i gather tbh.

i personally belive Danuser is a horrible shitty writer and did damage to WoW. i also believe what the vid said could (i repeat: could) be true.

and what I gather from this threads ppl is that MAAAAAAANY ppl here can’t think in other colors than black and white. seems grey is not a widely used color for most ppl here.